Pretty much the reason I wasn't a Senna fan.
Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya(spoilers mixed with stoner/rossi talk)
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Pretty much the reason I wasn't a Senna fan.
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As a talent, he was certainly one of a kind. Probably the fastest one lap driver I have ever seen, or ever will see in my lifetime. Similar to Valentino in the sense that the lower the grip conditions became, he had a 6th sense to find where the grip was on the track. What he did at Estoril in 1985 in the rain to take his first victory really defies all description. Of course that is only one facet of the man, and the rest of it can't be overlooked if one has any real sense of honesty about it. On track behavior matters quite a bit and the sum of any racer's career is more than the total wins and total championships. It's about what they did during the pursuit of those successes.
I think very little of Michael Schumacher, who built upon what Senna did with on-track behavior, and took it to a new low. Much like VR, Schumacher's fans were of the glory hunting variety, and were insufferable to deal with as they had no real sense of history of the sport they were following.
Yes I watched him win that race with a back of the grid car.
Some of his 1 lap pace was due to him taking risks others would not take, particularly in qualifying, and I would see him as more like MM than Rossi, and like MM I saw him as more reckless/careless of risks to himself and others rather than malicious or calculated in regard to many of the moves for which he was justly criticised. Oddly I think Prost while he has many fewer poles had the advantage in terms of fastest race laps.
Despite Prost's famous and seemingly prophetic statement, it was a mechanical/structural failure which killed him rather any driving error/recklessness however.
Arrabbiata1
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I recall being at the Donington GP in 2003 I think and I guy stood in front of me at Coppice was wearing a Manchester United shirt, a Ferrari jacket and a VR46 cap. Pretty well covered then - he doubtless had Tiger Woods underpants too. Do these bandwagon jumpers genuinely have no shame? There are Man U fans who despite winning the FA Cup are distraught because they finished fifth. Glory hunters will never understand the satisfaction of rooting for the underdog. It absolutely baffles me blindly supporting someone or subscribing to something with no prior affiliation simply to be on the side of the winner. Utterly bewildering.
Wrong (IMO of course)
There has never been the hype with regards to the personalities of MM/JL and nor have any really gotten close to the heights of fandom that Rossi had in the early 2000's, never mind that of today.
Nice try though
The opinion/fact remains that there was and remains an extremely large VR bandwagon on which many people have jumped not because they know him, nor because of his results (necessarily), but because they see him in the media and that same media portrays Valentino as the one and only person in the sport. They do not portray any aspect of the sport without mentioning Valentino and thus, he and his name is in front of people far more than is the sport or the achievements of others within the sport.
As an example, I believe that there was a blog post last year by Trunkman (could be wrong) who reviewed print media and in particular Crash (as the example) and found that VR46 appears on over 50% of all covers irrespective of story or result (I may be wrong, but seem to recall he was on their championship edition).
He also appears on the face of the various games acknowledged or licenced by DORNA with the latest being named after him (if stories are correct).
Heck, in fact the facebook page for this website still has him as their image/logo despite it being stated last year that this would be changed to reflect the current champion.
Whilst you and many others of the yellow fraternity (and far worse than yourself or Dani), may see this as good for the sport, it isn't as most people could not tell you the capacity of the bikes, the manufacturers, the defending champion, the tyre manufacturer/s involved, what are the classes and so forth. But they could tell you when VR won, his championships, how he was 'robbed' by circumstance or conspiracy in 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015.
...., in Australia there is no mention on the news of any MotoGP without mention of Valentino with other riders only getting a mention for 'rider X will start on pole with rider Y behind, Valentino Rossi will start from 5th' with no mention of Jack Miller unless he freaks a qualifying or crashes.
JL/MM/DP etc have never been considered bandwagon worthy by those that need a personality to follow as their prime interest or focal point (as opposed to motorcycle racing fans who support riders for their own reasons). Yes, you can well say that Valentino has introduced many people to the sport and that may be true, but like the bandwagon of Tiger Woods, those fans will leave as results drop of scandal engulfs.
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Wrong (IMO of course)
There has never been the hype with regards to the personalities of MM/JL and nor have any really gotten close to the heights of fandom that Rossi had in the early 2000's, never mind that of today.
Nice try though
The opinion/fact remains that there was and remains an extremely large VR bandwagon on which many people have jumped not because they know him, nor because of his results (necessarily), but because they see him in the media and that same media portrays Valentino as the one and only person in the sport. They do not portray any aspect of the sport without mentioning Valentino and thus, he and his name is in front of people far more than is the sport or the achievements of others within the sport.
As an example, I believe that there was a blog post last year by Trunkman (could be wrong) who reviewed print media and in particular Crash (as the example) and found that VR46 appears on over 50% of all covers irrespective of story or result (I may be wrong, but seem to recall he was on their championship edition).
He also appears on the face of the various games acknowledged or licenced by DORNA with the latest being named after him (if stories are correct).
Heck, in fact the facebook page for this website still has him as their image/logo despite it being stated last year that this would be changed to reflect the current champion.
Whilst you and many others of the yellow fraternity (and far worse than yourself or Dani), may see this as good for the sport, it isn't as most people could not tell you the capacity of the bikes, the manufacturers, the defending champion, the tyre manufacturer/s involved, what are the classes and so forth. But they could tell you when VR won, his championships, how he was 'robbed' by circumstance or conspiracy in 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015.
...., in Australia there is no mention on the news of any MotoGP without mention of Valentino with other riders only getting a mention for 'rider X will start on pole with rider Y behind, Valentino Rossi will start from 5th' with no mention of Jack Miller unless he freaks a qualifying or crashes.
JL/MM/DP etc have never been considered bandwagon worthy by those that need a personality to follow as their prime interest or focal point (as opposed to motorcycle racing fans who support riders for their own reasons). Yes, you can well say that Valentino has introduced many people to the sport and that may be true, but like the bandwagon of Tiger Woods, those fans will leave as results drop of scandal engulfs.
Long post that could be summed as "JL & MM are not as marketable as VR". If I'm spending thousands to develop a MotoGP video game, you best believe I want to maximize my profits. If putting VR on the cover generates more sales than putting JL or even MM on the cover, guess who's going on the damn cover?? Still, all the riders are in the game so it helps increase the popularity of the entire grid.
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Arrabbiata1
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Arrant nonsense. Pointedly, the very fact that attendances plummeted following his tenure at Ducati demonstrates my point. This was one of the reasons that he was parachuted back onto a factory M1. Since he has been competitive again, which I stress, I am happy to see, they've returned in their droves. Rossi is bigger than the sport - of course people are buying into the hype and will continue to leap upon the bandwagon of his popularity until he retires irrespective of championships. The mythology surrounding Rossi is perpetuated by the prevailing narrative - a largely false canard foisted by the press and the series owners. He is largely beyond criticism and reproach and appears to be blithely and uncritically adored by a global army of increasingly mindless minions. The only about such fickle fandom is that the majority of them will desert the sport as quickly as they proliferated.
Once again, I'm pleased that Vale is racing for another two seasons, I think it's wonderful. But I'm only interesting in the racing not the yellow poison, the mustard gas that permeates and blinds the paddock, the press and the pundits and plaudits alike.
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Bandwagon fans support whoever is winning. Rossi's fans attended less races while he was on the Ducati, but they didn't jump to another rider's bandwagon. They support Rossi or they support nobody, that's not how I define bandwagon fans.
If JL struggles on the Ducati and rarely gets on the podium, it'll be interesting to see how loyal his fanbase remains.
Yep long post and barely challenged really as you forgot (overlooked) the critical point of the situation .......... that being that DORNA and the media (not all but many) are on the bandwagon and thus will not promote the other riders and thus they are not allowed to become marketable.
Certainly if you are developing a game or similar you want to sell it and market it the best way possible, but the fact that you market it using an individual's name shows that the sport is not concerned with promoting itself, but only promoting that individual which is the sports failing.
Nothing will increase the popularity of the grid when the game (or the marketing) is designed around and focused on one individual as it will likely hinder the growth and recognition of the others involved in the sport.
But, do I take it you agree with the original post?
As Arrib has since stated with the experiences of the Ducati years and as was seen last year when .... hit the fan, many (and I mean many) posters on sites stated that they would never watch another MotoGP race because of what happened, some (700+ thousand) even wanted the rules changed to accomodate the situation (is there a similar petition to remove Ianonne's penalty ..... thought not)
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So they are Rossi fans, not fans of the sport?
Serious question btw, not piss taking in any way
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Milestone started making the official MotoGP games in 2013. Here's a look at the covers.
So the 2016 Valentino themed game is the first one they're really making Rossi-centric.
Many Rossi fans aren't very big fans of the sport, at least not in the sense that many of us here are where bike technology is researched and discussed, tires are discussed, and all the riders well known. Many fans are just casual, they tune in on Sunday then don't think about racing again until the next race Sunday.
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Milestone started making the official MotoGP games in 2013. Here's a look at the covers.
So the 2016 Valentino themed game is the first one they're really making Rossi-centric.
Many Rossi fans aren't very big fans of the sport, at least not in the sense that many of us here are where bike technology is researched and discussed, tires are discussed, and all the riders well known. Many fans are just casual, they tune in on Sunday then don't think about racing again until the next race Sunday.
Surprised in shows Cal wheels up ............
I am not a game player so could not even tell you what the Aust ones showed on their covers but no doubt at some stage it would have been CS so obviously they are market tailored a little
Thanks both btw
Arrabbiata1
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And they quickly desert them when they are not...this doesn't necessarily mean defecting to another rider or perhaps team. In the case of many plastic VR fans, given that they have bought into the cult of personality as opposed to being existing followers of the sport, supporting another rider is an unlikely proposition particularly given the hatred and the contempt directed at anyone with the audacity to challenge their hero. Most would rather quit watching the sport altogether than entertain the thought of cheering another rider on the rostrum. Remember, increasingly, the only time these fuckers cheer another rider is when they crash.
You're probably not familiar with the culture of English football, but for want of a better analogy, your argument is akin to suggesting that Manchester United fans would abandon their Club to support Man City because they finished above them. Actually they would simply loose interest in the sport altogether and stay away. Amusing this year how many supposedly fervent 'die hard' Chelsea fans suddenly stopped mentioning football last season and lost interest in football overnight. They didn't suddenly become Spurs fans - (although this is not completely unheard of, it is very rare). Bandwagon hunters, in the sense that most weren't there before Chelsea found significant success in the nineties and when after this years aberration/annus horribilis will be straight back next year when their fortunes are revived. Such is the nature of fair weather fans. With the smaller clubs often only the hard core remain faithful during the hard times.
I repeat, Valentino Rossi is bigger than the sport. Many will simply walk away if he is not the main feature and by the nature of the show...attraction.
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Do you think you could walk up to a group of MM or JL fans, pull a few aside, and have a good conversation about the 500cc era? Would they be able to describe the different characteristics of the Michelins compared to the Bridgestones? Exactly how much more of a "true fan" or follower of the sport do you think they'd be compared average VR46 fans? Is it simply that they would continue to watch the sport after MM or JL retired?
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Thought I would repost these links for some of the more new members to read and digest as in these links (which many here reference from time to time) is a damn fine description of what so irks many.
Irrespective of the take, it will piss some off but it is a damn good read.
Doctored ? MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi | Trunk Talk
Doctored: MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi ? Part 2 | Trunk Talk
As a suggestion, also review some of the comments posted as it does give an insight to the mindsets involved in fan land (good, bad, ugly and indifferent)
Irrespective of the take, it will piss some off but it is a damn good read.
Doctored ? MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi | Trunk Talk
Doctored: MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi ? Part 2 | Trunk Talk
As a suggestion, also review some of the comments posted as it does give an insight to the mindsets involved in fan land (good, bad, ugly and indifferent)
Perhaps unfortunately for you, I don't think many, or perhaps any, of those you dispute on here are people who have followed the sport for less than a decade, whether or not that is germane in general.
I don't really know about how things are in Spain, but I gather MM is far more popular than JL. From my own biased perception, I suspect in general even in Spain Jorge is only appreciated by afflicionados of the sport given he definitely doesn't go out of his way to be charming or popular; I admit the possibility he couldn't be even if he tried, but applaud him for not really trying to court popularity anyway.
I don't know about MM, but I suspect most people on here at least, and non-Spanish fans in general, who admire him are captivated by his talent and the way he rides rather than his winsome personality or his capacity for pithy and witty one-liners in English, and if he is playing devious media games they are too subtle for me to detect.
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Arrabbiata1
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A good question MV. I certainly think that they would be more inclined to stay watching the sport than Valentino’s fan base and perhaps as you suggested in some cases jump on another winning bandwagon when their riders are no longer out there. On the subject of the latter, I found it interesting that prior to his death, Marco Simoncelli was generating a substantial fan base – in my opinion owing as much to his charisma, personality and wild style that his outright talent on a motorcycle. I did speculate at the time how many of these had been Rossi fans prior to his fall from grace at Ducati and there may be some truth in your observation. I am of the opinion that Max Biaggi fans didn’t all abandon GP for WSB and either followed another rider or continued to appreciate both series. I also noticed that followers of Casey Stoner tend to be followers of the sport first and foremost, that many still remain and like myself are unaffiliated. Also appreciate that motorsport breeds fans and devotees of a particular make and factory over rider. Always struck me that during the Fogarty years and the peak popularity of WSB, there were fans of Carl and the Ducati brand in equal measure. Incidentally, I notice that your avi is currently depicting Haga’s R7. Beautiful, beautiful motorcycle that and one of the few positive things to come out of Ducati writing the rule book in the late 1990s.
At the risk of repetition, (but in my defence, you don’t appear to appreciate my point), many Valentino fans have bought into a cult of personality and are oblivious to the sport itself. This is not so prevalent in the case of Marquez and Lorenzo fans - although you may well insist that this is purely in the absence of a personality to buy into – but such riders, Max and Stoner included, don’t rely on a largely false manufactured image which for all the yellow smokescreen around Rossi, is actually quite transparent to the objective observer.
Regarding deference to the history or technical details of the sport, I would argue that although it is not a necessity, it certainly enhances ones appreciation and introduces valuable context and insight. Why would you not want to explore this, or understand what went before or even the most elementary rudiments of tyres, configuration and displacement for example? There are superficial fans in all camps, granted – but in answer to your question, I would contend less so than those that choose to nail any other colour than yellow to their mast.
