F1 : 2013

 


 
cliché guevara

3463241364122586

dude thats my point. at no time EVER has any of the red bull drivers obeyed to any eventual team orders!


thats why i like the team,even when they do give "soft" orders, their drivers don't follow them :lol:


thats the one plus of having a energy drink company run an f1 team. they can't afford to build a negative image


mercedes ,ferrari and lotus have clear number 1 drivers. red bull hasn't, which gives vettel extra points in any sensible mans book.


 


imagine the outrage if the team orders would have been that webber should stay behind vettel. double standards for a lot of fans

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I still can't believe your level of RB fanboyishness.  They can't afford to build a negative image?  This shitstorm is considered good publicity?  I'm sorry dude but you are as blind as a bat when viewing F1 from through your RB beer goggles, like this gem from you:


 

i've always liked red bull because they let their drivers race it out.would be a bit disappointed if they let ferrari force them to stoop to their level.

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http://powerslide.net/forum/index.php?/topic/14937-f1-2012/?p=337231

.... Webber and team orders. Im so sick of his whining. Its .... like this that ruins F1. You have the 3 time defending world champion and you call the race with a fifth of it to go. Vettel is and was faster period, and had the advantage of heated tires when Webber came out of the pits. Webber didnt shut down ...., he fought his ... off to keep Vettel behind and couldntt do it. Once past, Vettel disappeared. It was a bad call on the team that cost Vettel the lead to begin with. They brought him in a couple of laps to early to switch to the slicks and it cost him a bunch of time. The only person who should be pissed is Rossberg. His team stole a podium from him so Hamilton could get points. Then they make the excuses of didnt want to burn to much fuel fighting for position. This kind of .... is what you get when you dont put a premium on individuals winning, when you put the constructers championship ahead of the drivers. Red Bull was perfectly content with a 1-2 either way, which ever was safer. Luckily for the fans, Vettel puts winning above all. Dont get me wrong, i perfectly understand Red Bulls thought process because of the money involved in the constructors title, but it ..... up the racing. Who wants to watch the last 10 laps of a race thats been decided by some egg head in the pits

Best part of sepang F1?


 


Hamilton taking the time to stop in the McLaren pit and wave to his old buddies...


 


Duh!!

povol

3463791364176571

.... Webber and team orders. Im so sick of his whining. Its .... like this that ruins F1. You have the 3 time defending world champion and you call the race with a fifth of it to go. Vettel is and was faster period, and had the advantage of heated tires when Webber came out of the pits. Webber didnt shut down ...., he fought his ... off to keep Vettel behind and couldntt do it. Once past, Vettel disappeared. It was a bad call on the team that cost Vettel the lead to begin with. They brought him in a couple of laps to early to switch to the slicks and it cost him a bunch of time. The only person who should be pissed is Rossberg. His team stole a podium from him so Hamilton could get points. Then they make the excuses of didnt want to burn to much fuel fighting for position. This kind of .... is what you get when you dont put a premium on individuals winning, when you put the constructers championship ahead of the drivers. Red Bull was perfectly content with a 1-2 either way, which ever was safer. Luckily for the fans, Vettel puts winning above all. Dont get me wrong, i perfectly understand Red Bulls thought process because of the money involved in the constructors title, but it ..... up the racing. Who wants to watch the last 10 laps of a race thats been decided by some egg head in the pits

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Webber is not exactly my favorite sportsman, in fact I give him heaps for his .... starts and excuses why they happen. But in this case I feel a bit for him. He made all the running early, actually got a decent start and made some gutsy early moves to get the lead. Once in the lead when Vettel challenged then complained on the radio how he was being held up webber promptly pulled the gap out. So I give him benefit of the doubt. But at the end of the day its no use blaming the drivers. How about banning radio communication, especially when its being used on the commentary and we can hear them talking .... to drivers about where to finish and not to challenge, its a bad look for the sport. Theres no need for radio, they can communicate via pitboards the old fashioned way.

eltoro

3463761364174244

I still can't believe your level of RB fanboyishness.  They can't afford to build a negative image?  This shitstorm is considered good publicity?  I'm sorry dude but you are as blind as a bat when viewing F1 from through your RB beer goggles, like this gem from you:


 


 


http://powerslide.net/forum/index.php?/topic/14937-f1-2012/?p=337231

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theres still a big difference. if they started doing dodgy moves like ferrari do regulary they would be the most hated team in an instance and red bull would be better off investing the couple of hundred mill. per year in tv spots or whatever.


i think you get what i'm alluding to.


 


spot on post pov.


i think every sensible race fan should applaud it when drivers decide to actually race and be consistent in their take on team orders.


even as a vettel fan i would never want webber to just roll over if blatant orders were in place, so why should i be mad at vettel for giving us a good race finish!? am i the only one who enjoyed the battle for the lead in the closing laps?! kept me a bit distracted from the mercedes atrocity


 


@geo: we,or at leat i, ""hate" (but lost respect would be much more fitting here) alonso not for being spoilt.


following the logic i'd have to hate hamilton,vettel,lorenzo... you get the picture.


just a few things that come to mind : consciously putting other drivers safety on the line for a win (now please don't compare the danger and race sabotage of singapore 08 to the brain fart that was stupidly turning into a wide running jv in 07) , blackmailing his own team (which is something else entirely than the super sympathetic action of telling your boss to go shove it and go racing), being disrespectful towards his opposition and arrogant, oh and hungary 07 was a good one as well.


whereas in moments of shame so to speak even a guy like schumacher can't hide being uncomfortable and at least acknowledges the sacrifice and shows the utmost respect, alonso laughs all the way. i guess for me at least thats the fine line between not liking a guy over the next one but still admiring his skill and effort (think motogp) and just being too much of a psycho.


oh and he accepts racism among his fans if they disrupt his opposition, lets not forget that.


not the biggest deal given the situation of the time, but i thought his reaction and behaviour in general at the time was the most sickening behaviour i've ever seen in racing.i really hope he gets the 1-or-2 years of being uncompetitive on a

red vehicle experience, maybe that will make him more humble and in the

end likeable again.


 


 


+ he won't tell us despite the repeated pleas how mansells moustache ended up on his forehead.

My problem with Webber is he is being a total hypocrite. If the situation was reversed at this stage of the season he would have done the same thing - and he has in the past.


 


It looks even worse because you have Hamilton looking disappointed at beating his team mate while Webber is disappointed he wasn't gifted the race.


 


I hope Raikkonen wipes the floor with their whiny arses all season.

I quite agree, ban radio contact, it only leads to bad calls if you ask me!


 


Webber is only sore because he has been asked to hold station more than once and he's tried to pass Vettel and not been able to. The fact Vettel got by him and pulled out a gap just shows how fast Vettel is and what a racer the guy is. If you can get by and go faster, isn't that kind of the point? As a fan of the sport you want to see the fastest guys going faster, if they're not doing so just because of team orders it's plain wrong in my opinion!


 


As for Hamilton, he's not the first one who pulled into the wrong garage, bet he felt stupid though and so he should. Rosberg was faster and should have been allowed to race, not letting him do so is wrong on so many levels.

haha wasn't it jenson into the red bull garage last year or so?


spot on posts 27/lyria.


i'm not worried about the hamilton situation,you can sayw what you want about him but i'm almost certain that he will make such things right on his own sooner than later.i'm of course mad at whose the rightful receiver of criticism and that would be brawn.hope that laudas talk with him gave him some food for thought. can't blame rosberg for being a teamplayer in the end, but i really hope this will not slowly evolve into a massa like transformation.


to get my last bit of fanboyism out and annoy geo : having kept up with rosberg i'm reassured that even in his mid 40s schumacher was still one of the fastest. :yahoo:


 


one more reason to dislike alonso: he doesn't give the motogp guys the credit they deserve. whereas he can't even ride and makes arrogant public statements , your beloved schumi after just a few years of just learning to ride streetbikes ,not racing, would have qualified for a motogp race on the desmosedici

cliché guevara

3463911364198864

haha wasn't it jenson into the red bull garage last year or so?


spot on posts 27/lyria.


i'm not worried about the hamilton situation,you can sayw what you want about him but i'm almost certain that he will make such things right on his own sooner than later.i'm of course mad at whose the rightful receiver of criticism and that would be brawn.hope that laudas talk with him gave him some food for thought. can't blame rosberg for being a teamplayer in the end, but i really hope this will not slowly evolve into a massa like transformation.


to get my last bit of fanboyism out and annoy geo : having kept up with rosberg i'm reassured that even in his mid 40s schumacher was still one of the fastest. :yahoo:


 


one more reason to dislike alonso: he doesn't give the motogp guys the credit they deserve. whereas he can't even ride and makes arrogant public statements , your beloved schumi after just a few years of just learning to ride streetbikes ,not racing, would have qualified for a motogp race on the desmosedici

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He drove into the back of Vettel, that's another good reason for me

I've met Weber - an absolute gentleman - it was at Phillip Island watching motogp. He got out and walked around with the proles like me. Chatted to him for a while. Like most Aussie racers he has problems of pushing into seats that his level of base sponsorship doesn't allow. He will always be a "2" driver. 


 


Seb straight out overtook after the team told Mark to cruise home, save the car and get the victory 1-2 for the team. 


 


Seb says he didn't hear and appeared genuinely remorseful, he ran the risk of stacking both cars which may have had a much different outcome. 


 


My understanding is the team told Mark to cruise and he did, apparently hit the "economy" button. Great drive by Weber. 


 


.... happens.


 


 


 


 


Also - every time they run one of those patriotic "buy Australian" campaigns I send the idiots an email telling them to sponsor Aussie riders and drivers, they chuck obscene amounts of money at blockhead Rugby (League and Union) players. .... 'em, I'll buy whatever I like from where ever I like and they can sponsor who ever the like and not "buy Australian" themselves. Hypocritical cnts. 

Embarassing weekend for RedBull weekend!!


 


Horner comes off looking like a weak leader with very little authority, and generally deceptive, Vettelmacher behaving with a total lack of honesty, integrity and sportsmanship, then lying about it after the race.  Webber getting totally mugged by his own team and ultimately losing out for doing everything right.  A 1 - 2 result can rarely be such a negative result!


 


Can't wait to see if this story develops

:lol: are you guys fishing? since when do we hate on a racer and applaud race sabotage and obeying to orders?


 


it is as simple as this : webber surely didn't just let vettel go (did you guys actually watch the race?) and anybody thinkng that after 3 years of doing .... for vettel( and rather be an obstacle than a helping hand to him) webber would just start obeying to team  orders now if he would have been in that situation is wrong.


as for vettel being schumacher like : care to elaborate? and what exactly has the guy done since he entered f1?when did he ever have something gifted to him from teammates?


 


its a fact that the only time webber was at an "disadvantage" was that new front wing at silverstone incident - where the team had only 2 of them and webber on friday decided not to use them and still won the race.


as for webbers dad and his claims that redbull "want a european to win" :lol:


sure mateschitz is glad to have vettel ,but webber is his guy and has been for years.and within RBR horner surely isn't on bad terms with webber, given that they have their little gp3 operation etc. marko ,as obnoxious as he often is, doesn't even play too big of a role .hes got nothing to do with the car or race strategy


 


 


of course i don't like vettels apology too much, even though it was obvious that while being confronted after the race with all that negativity from his team he was extremely uncomfortable, he should not have taken the blame but instead take a stance . not even against team orders in general but certainly against being forced to just bow to a teammate that is not in any way at all in a position to claim to be #1 and the teams best bet for the championship in any known universe.not taking the piss out of webber but unlike a guy like rosberg he's done absolutely nawt as a team player (just think about the last 2 years where everybody-including me- celebrated him ignoring the call and try racing, but also the brazil gp...)to make such demands and has been handed his ... for 4 years now.

Multi21 dude.


Last year I would have been up in arms at such radio messages.


This year they are allowed.


Two races in and already why team orders were banned re-rears it's ugly head.


FFS Roll on the bikes getting on track

then how can you sympathize for a driver that in the race first slows down the pace so much until it holds up/agitates vettel and then later on whines about having to race for the win instead of just everything being handed to him and have the race sabotaged.


team orders,especially early in the season and when its for the win are total ......... go to a f1 race when its messed with, its a total disaster for the attending audience. we can't let that .... roll just because webber (like a lot of the drivers) aside from the track is a cool guy

cliché guevara

3464981364334645

then how can you sympathize for a driver that in the race first slows down the pace so much until it holds up/agitates vettel and then later on whines about having to race for the win instead of just everything being handed to him and have the race sabotaged.


team orders,especially early in the season and when its for the win are total ......... go to a f1 race when its messed with, its a total disaster for the attending audience. we can't let that .... roll just because webber (like a lot of the drivers) aside from the track is a cool guy

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Because Webber had been told to turn the wick on the engine down, Engine longevity something that counts these days,


Seb Had been told the same, After the last set of stops unless under threat racing over, turn the wick down and bring them home as is.


Christian Horner said this in the interview afterwards.


They had a huge gap to the two merc's so why race?


Do what the people who pay your wages tell you what to do!


Or is that wrong?

not surprising to hear that of our big business owner


i can't argue with the point that for some (mostly older people) a young guy being a bit of a rebel is just a bit frightening


no,but really i can't see any sensible case that can be made against vettel here and also for all of the sudden be in favor of team orders and especially in that race, in that time of the championship. i can't get my head around why the mercedes team order is such a minor thing and that vettel (who thankfully for the race spectators ignored that and attacked anyway) gets so much criticism.it really is stupid


 


come on, you can't seriously not have seen webber trying to stay ahead and fighting??


if i was cynical i could say that maybe when he realized vettel was close he didn't turn it up and push (do we even know wheter vettel did anything on his engine?i doubt it) but rather use another chance to lash out and steal a few tears of sympathy

cliché guevara

3464981364334645

then how can you sympathize for a driver that in the race first slows down the pace so much until it holds up/agitates vettel and then later on whines about having to race for the win instead of just everything being handed to him and have the race sabotaged.


team orders,especially early in the season and when its for the win are total ......... go to a f1 race when its messed with, its a total disaster for the attending audience. we can't let that .... roll just because webber (like a lot of the drivers) aside from the track is a cool guy

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What the .... are you on about? Like I said Webber is not my favorite driver and he does 'moan', in the now typical Aussie stereotype, but in this case Webber clearly said he hates orders and is more than happy for the 'team' of Red Bull to .... off and let them race wheel to wheel. He doesnt want team orders, of course not he is the no 2 driver. Vettel does want team orders because he is the no 1 driver. The fact is drivers Hamilton, Alonso and most likely Vettel have clauses clearly stipulating them as no 1 drivers and the no 2 either have to obey or get the sack. So if you want racing ban no 1 contracts.


 


Apparently little Hamilton ran off to Bernie complaining Red Bull would not sign him because it breaks this 'master/servent' relationship of 1 and 2 drivers. Last thing Red Bull want is another Hamilton/Alonso fiasco. I think it would be great. McClaren are the only team with the balls to let the drivers go at it.


 


So I do sympathize mostly with the no 2 drivers, not the no 1 silver spooners and certainly not with teams too cowardly to let drivers race in case they break the precious litlle toys. I would love to see Raikonen and Webber swap places next year, I think the prospect of Mr Iceman shut the .... up radio guy I know what I'm doing would scare both Vettel and Horner a bit too much though. You watch after Webber will come a Red Bull rookie who is easily controlled.

1st comment Pft!


Man I think we should keep this one for May.


Good campsite discussion there!


 


Edit This was @ Cliche. 


Birdman got in before I replied

yeah,no wonder you say we have no time for karting


 


@bird: i'm not making a case for webber stepping down to number two and not racing vettel anymore, nor do i have a big problem with his constant moaning. but really in this case he of all people asking for races being fixed for him and causing such a drama is just not likeable in the least bit.


in any case i hope vettel moves not to ferrari(which in any case won't happen with alonso there) but rather to mercedes in 2014.

cliché guevara

3465041364338473

yeah,no wonder you say we have no time for karting


 


@bird: i'm not making a case for webber stepping down to number two and not racing vettel anymore, nor do i have a big problem with his constant moaning. but really in this case he of all people asking for races being fixed for him and causing such a drama is just not likeable in the least bit.


in any case i hope vettel moves not to ferrari(which in any case won't happen with alonso there) but rather to mercedes in 2014.

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........, where is Webber asking for a fixed race? Did you hear him on the radio calling for Vettel to move over? Did you hear Webber on the radio calling for hold stations? 


 


Vettel was caught on the radio crying for Webber to move over. Then Red Bull is on the radio telling them both to obey team orders. I like how you tried to screw this all against Webber. As I said I dont support Webber much, but credit where due he made a great start, pull off some ballsy early moves and EARNED the lead it was not HANDED to him. Vettel used up his tires early closing the gap to Webber, then after that whinge on live radio for all to hear Webber promptly smoked him, having more tire left. Vettel the fastest driver in the world couldnt overtake him in a clean fight at that point eh? No he had to wait for Webber to follow the team orders then sieze the opportunity.


 


This is the part I'm arguing with you. Its all the no 1 drivers who want fixed races, not the no 2's. Its in their bloody contracts. Webber is pissed off with Red Bull for being told to turn it down and coast to the finish, and I agree with him. If he and Rosberg dont moan about it, you and I would never know about it and F1 would remained a staged load of crap. Therefore I support the moaners Webber and Rosberg, they are the ones that want to race, both are the ones told not to. I have no issue with what Vettel did I dont care about him. But by comparison if it was Rosberg who overtook Hamilton do you think he would get away with it like Vettel? The difference is clear, the no 2 is the one that gets .......