Engine rule

From the FIM rulebook...


~~~~~~~~~~
2.3.7 Engine Durability

1) In the MotoGP class the number of engines available for use
by each rider is limited. For the 2010 season a maximum of
6 engines may be used by each permanent contracted rider
for all the scheduled <u>races</u> of the season. Should a rider be
replaced for any reason, the replacement rider will be
deemed to be the original rider for purposes of engine
allocation.
Each manufacturer is allowed 2 additional engines for the
exclusive use of Wild Card riders only.

~~~~~~~~~~

This says nothing about practice engines just the racing engines.

I'll bet the official definition of "race" is taken to mean the entire race event. Is there a glossary or other source of standard definitions buried in the rule book?

There is a specific section allocated to practice and it doesn't mention engines. I am going to read through it all and see if it has a glossary like you say or some other condition. But from what I can see you can qualify and practice all you want with whatever engine you want but the race is a controlled situation.

This is the rule book link... http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco...MOTO_GP_Eng.pdf

I think that this bit may be the key :
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>In the MotoGP class the number of engines available for use by each rider is limited.

As Geo said, the "for all the scheduled races of the season" means all race weekends.

The wording of this :
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Penalties for infringement of article 2.3.7 (Engine durability in
MotoGP).
– Infringement before the race: the rider will start the race
from the pit lane 20’’ after the start of the race.
– Infringement during the race: ride through.
shows the 6 engines to be for the 18 events rather than just races, otherwise how could it be possible to infringe the 6 engine rule before a race?

I don't think that the mid season tests (whatever is left of them) are included in the limits though.

If there was a federation for Bike fans, we could show or teach them a lesson.

how stupid they should be to start these kind of rulls and risk on losing fans.
I am so mad at this rull, right now, and i,ll be even more sad if these few rulls fcuk the season up for us.

the richest and most famous bike companies in the serie and they cant invest a few more engines for their own business.

how much money could they save by this? I think even less than 10 millions of $ for every team.
stupid greedy ezpeleta!!!!!

In the preamble to the regulations they freely use the term "race event" the engine regulation clearly states "race" only. I would expect that it only applies to the actual race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 17 2010, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the preamble to the regulations they freely use the term "race event" the engine regulation clearly states "race" only. I would expect that it only applies to the actual race.
So how can the rule be infringed before the race? (see my post above)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 17 2010, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the preamble to the regulations they freely use the term "race event" the engine regulation clearly states "race" only. I would expect that it only applies to the actual race.


A race is 20 - 30 laps of a 3.5 to 5.5k circuit which is about 150k.

150k x 18races = 2,700k

2,700k dividied by 6 engines = 450k per engine.

I don't think so. They are talking about having to get 1,200k+ per engine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 16 2010, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So how can the rule be infringed before the race? (see my post above)

An infringment before the race is simply having to install an extra engine. That will get you penalized and a pit row start the race that the new engine starts in. I don't think that applies to any succeeding races. Capirossi had this penalty last year.

The maximum race distance is 150 so worst case yes 450kms/engine. That is reasonable to me. Say you do 3 race distances every race weekend. Does that mean that engines that ran for 500kms maximum before rebuild now must go for 1350kms? Maybe so I just don't see it in the words of the rule book. I took some time today to read through it looking for a definition that would clearly say race and practice or race event but didn't find it. If I was a team manager I'd be wanting something more than I see. I'm not a fan of the rule BTW not at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Jan 9 2010, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Engine restrictions ‘daunting’ says Jerry Burgess

By Matthew Birt -

MotoGP

08 January 2010 10:39

Valentino Rossi’s legendary crew chief Jerry Burgess has admitted planning to use only six engines for the entire 2010 MotoGP world championship is a ‘daunting task’.
Under cost-cutting measures for next season, Rossi and his premier class rivals will only be able to use six engines for the 18-round series.

Not only does the new rule present a massive challenge to Japanese engineers, with engine life needing to be at doubled to at least 1500 miles, but Aussie Burgess reckons it creates a major planning headache too.

“The only thing I find difficult with the rule is that I have to be planning the last race in Valencia before is tart the first race of the season and never before have I had to look at the end of the season before the first race and that I find a daunting task.

"It means that you will be trying to bank an engine, use some miles on something else, so that you have engine in the bank if you need a fresh engine.”

Burgess, who has masterminded all of Rossi’s seven MotoGP world titles, said the key target for engineers in 2010 would be extracting as much horsepower as possible out of a motor without sacrificing reliability.

He added: “The challenge for the engineers is make an engine for top horsepower over three races.

"There is no issue if we can maintain performance and reliability over three races, but if we get better power when we put in a fresh engine, there is an optimum engine performance and then it tapers off."

mcn

It is pretty clear from all the discussions that the teams are preparing engines to run 3 rounds not three races. Quotes above refer to 6 engines for an entire season and 1500miles per engine. Clear cut if you ask me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 17 2010, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>An infringment before the race is simply having to install an extra engine. That will get you penalized and a pit row start the race that the new engine starts in. I don't think that applies to any succeeding races. Capirossi had this penalty last year.

The maximum race distance is 150 so worst case yes 450kms/engine. That is reasonable to me. Say you do 3 race distances every race weekend. Does that mean that engines that ran for 500kms maximum before rebuild now must go for 1350kms? Maybe so I just don't see it in the words of the rule book. I took some time today to read through it looking for a definition that would clearly say race and practice or race event but didn't find it. If I was a team manager I'd be wanting something more than I see. I'm not a fan of the rule BTW not at all.
I think Matthew Birt's comment regarding Burgess mentioning engines having to last 1500miles puts this issue to bed. A "race" is a race weekend for this rule.

Regardless, it is a poorly thought out rule and, IMO, will be tweaked during the season to avoid a reliability championship, as opposed to one won by the best racer.

In all the hub-bub about the new year's rules and the number of engines
I note that no journalist has taken the initiative to ascertain just how
many engines any of the factory teams used in 2009. Knowing this would
sure give some perspective to just how much potential there really is
for crisis as compared to 2009.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Feb 17 2010, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In all the hub-bub about the new year's rules and the number of engines
I note that no journalist has taken the initiative to ascertain just how
many engines any of the factory teams used in 2009. Knowing this would
sure give some perspective to just how much potential there really is
for crisis as compared to 2009.
All I know is that Suzuki used 7 in the last 8 races against an allowance of 6.

They did because of a wipe-out. The stupid part is that the engine was fine the intake needed gravel taken out and they were not allowed to do it which is total ......... What has that got to do with longevity? Ridiculous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 18 2010, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They did because of a wipe-out. The stupid part is that the engine was fine the intake needed gravel taken out and they were not allowed to do it which is total ......... What has that got to do with longevity? Ridiculous.
Indeed, but that is the way that this particular cookie crumbles. The rule is not about longevity per se, rather about only having 6 sealed engines for the year. It makes no sense, but which of Dorna's recent offerings do?

Engine Rule
Fuel Limit
Testing Limit
Three day tests at which no official rider can test on day one
No practice on Friday morning

And the new rules for 2012 look no better thought out.

6 engines / 18 races? Its strange that a prototype race series has a engine limit.
At every round the riders have 2 bikes in the pits so what engine is in there spare bike?? Whats happens in a flag to flag race?

Any answers??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Feb 23 2010, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any answers??

You could say that they have 2 engines that have to last 6 races as a pair. I think they will run one engine for practice and qualifying and then keep the fresher engine for the race and just swap the engines between the #1 and #2 bikes as needed.

A hypothesis:

Use 2 engines (detuned) for all practice sessions over 18 races = approx 6300k or 3150k per engine.

Use 4 engines (full power) for all 18 races = approx 2700k or 675k per engine.

With this strategy we would see slow times in practice sessions and then a big jump come race day which would leave everyone guessing. If a manufacture/team could pull this type of strategy off then on race day they could have a significant hp advantage. Also if there was a flag to flag then they could use the practice engine in the wet bike and not lose to much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Feb 19 2010, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6 engines / 18 races? Its strange that a prototype race series has a engine limit.
At every round the riders have 2 bikes in the pits so what engine is in there spare bike?? Whats happens in a flag to flag race?

how does this read..so switching bikes is classed as an engine change ?so they do a separate ride through as well ....no point in switching ride till you fall off
uh..fed up of reading stupid ....


If the extra engine is taken during the race (i.e. by switching bikes during a flag-to-flag race), then the rider will be given a ride through penalty. The ride through penalty rules state that riders may not swap bikes during the ride through, so they can't take advantage of the penalty to swap bikes again.

.... it

i'd rather have puig in charge of motogp than those now

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Feb 23 2010, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>how does this read..so switching bikes is classed as an engine change ?so they do a separate ride through as well ....no point in switching ride till you fall off
uh..fed up of reading stupid ....


If the extra engine is taken during the race (i.e. by switching bikes during a flag-to-flag race), then the rider will be given a ride through penalty. The ride through penalty rules state that riders may not swap bikes during the ride through, so they can't take advantage of the penalty to swap bikes again.

.... it

i'd rather have puig in charge of motogp than those now
The only time they get a penalty is when they use engine #7,8,9 etc. They can use all 6 engines on the same weekend if they want. Not sure what is so difficult about that to understand.