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Electronics

A

an4rew

Joined May 2007
2K Posts | 0+
N. Ireland
Rossi was doing similar lap times to Stoner but could not close that gap to De Puniet.

So you have 3 manufacturers with 4 different riders with their own style/skill which doesn't seem to matter anymore. They are within tenths of each other like robots.

I can see now why Rossi is not coming through from the back because its not possible anymore.

Dam electronics spoiling the fun, i guess you got to have a perfect start now or your race is over and they all go single file like Formula One.

It didn't seem as noticable with the 990 maybe because it took more skill to ride it.
 
you really believe that!!??
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 21 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]96366[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi was doing similar lap times to Stoner but could not close that gap to De Puniet.

So you have 3 manufacturers with 4 different riders with their own style/skill which doesn't seem to matter anymore. They are within tenths of each other like robots.

I can see now why Rossi is not coming through from the back because its not possible anymore.

Dam electronics spoiling the fun, i guess you got to have a perfect start now or your race is over and they all go single file like Formula One.

It didn't seem as noticable with the 990 maybe because it took more skill to ride it.


Geez one minute it's top speed deficiency, then it's tyres now it's electronics.
A phenomenal effort considering he's on a Vespa I Suppose.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 21 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]96366[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I can see now why Rossi is not coming through from the back because its not possible anymore.


I'm sure that Uccio will be absolutely devastated to learn of this...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 21 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]96369[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
you really believe that!!??
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i never thought it would happen to bikes but it has, it doesn't matter how good you are.

i know Stoner is a good rider but i only came to that conclusion because hes been the most consistant rider this year i cannot use anything else as a valid point but give him a yamaha and he won't do any better than Rossi.

it was always exciting to see Rossi coming through the field or some other rider but its impossible and shouldn't be like this. It should not be single file racing. People do not want to pay to watch this.

I think theres too much talk on tyres and they are only a small thing. the electronics even influence the tyres when they go off.

We need more than 50/50, we need 80/20, 80% being the rider or its just boring.

Also i do not like crashes they can be bad even fatal but theres got to be some vulnerbility. It seems if you keep the bike close to its limits but will still be very fast its impossible to fall off unless its wet, you touch the white line, go off track, pushing too hard to make up a bad start (over leaning etc) or contact with another rider.

These bikes just don't fall down easily and thats not good because they give a false sense of reality that you can go fast and safe.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 22 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]96491[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
We need more than 50/50, we need 80/20, 80% being the rider or its just boring.


Well as "fruity" as that all sounds .... I agree with this ..... kinda backs what I've been saying ... Stoner is the only one out there who is trying ... so he's way over 80% .... many of the rest are not.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 22 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]96491[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i never thought it would happen to bikes but it has, it doesn't matter how good you are.

i know Stoner is a good rider but i only came to that conclusion because hes been the most consistant rider this year i cannot use anything else as a valid point but give him a yamaha and he won't do any better than Rossi.

it was always exciting to see Rossi coming through the field or some other rider but its impossible and shouldn't be like this. It should not be single file racing. People do not want to pay to watch this.

I think theres too much talk on tyres and they are only a small thing. the electronics even influence the tyres when they go off.

We need more than 50/50, we need 80/20, 80% being the rider or its just boring.

Also i do not like crashes they can be bad even fatal but theres got to be some vulnerbility. It seems if you keep the bike close to its limits but will still be very fast its impossible to fall off unless its wet, you touch the white line, go off track, pushing too hard to make up a bad start (over leaning etc) or contact with another rider.

These bikes just don't fall down easily and thats not good because they give a false sense of reality that you can go fast and safe.


.......OR, get a new bunch of riders who are capable of mastering the technology at the same level (and beyond) of where Casey is right now. Based on the above argument he has come to terms with what has been presented to him. Everyone else (e.g. Capi and Barros - same bike same tech - and other teams who obviously are witnessing the current spectacle) just have to catch up. So it's not "technology's" fault. Catch up everybody then we might get some closer racing?????
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vibe @ Oct 22 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]96512[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.......OR, get a new bunch of riders who are capable of mastering the technology at the same level (and beyond) of where Casey is right now. Based on the above argument he has come to terms with what has been presented to him. Everyone else (e.g. Capi and Barros - same bike same tech - and other teams who obviously are witnessing the current spectacle) just have to catch up. So it's not "technology's" fault. Catch up everybody then we might get some closer racing?????


Vibe for President!! ..... well said
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Do the electronics set the bike up? Nope.

Sure they aid the rider with certain aspects and everyone used them, T/C will help conserve tyres, but I would think that bike setup in the practice sessions, previous data, rider feedback would me more important that the electronics package.

If the Ducati package is that hot, then what are the excuses of Loris, Alex, and The Hoff (when he was still racing)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vibe @ Oct 22 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]96512[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.......OR, get a new bunch of riders who are capable of mastering the technology at the same level


i agree Casey has adjusted the best to what hes got and is a proven rider now in my opinion (nothing to do with him being on a Duke)

Although should it really be about finding mostly average riders capable of mastering new technology when theres riders who are really talented but are being put in the shade by lesser lights like De Puniet just because Kawasaki mechanics did a good job.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mark S @ Oct 22 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]96514[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Do the electronics set the bike up? Nope.


Electronics are more important than setting up the bike nowadays, so yes.
 
An4rew,

Your kidding me right.

Stuff like spring rates, shock damping and rebound , correct tyre compounds , tyre pressues are all a total waste of time, because the electronics should be able to sort everything out, is that right?

Going by that logic, a rider just sits on the bike and the electronics do the rest.

Have you every talked to a racer? Have you ever done track day and changed setting on bikes?

I think you will find that the best riders in the world are not only quick on the race track, but they have a talent in understanding what a bike is doing and conveying it to his/her engineer.

Maybe test days and practice sessions are a thing of the past with these new electronics packages.
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well I have done more circuit days than I can count and I dont think you and me riding street production bikes or track bikes eg Honda RS250 (which I have a had few) that have no electronics or very mininal like fuel injection yes spring rates rebound and bound etc are most important but I cant find the quote myself but rossi said sometime this year that they are not as important as they use to be! So theres a quote from someone who actually rides the bikes. not someone who takes there r6 or whatever to a circuit
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 22 2007, 01:37 AM) [snapback]96491[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
iI think theres too much talk on tyres and they are only a small thing.

The tyres are single most important component of any racing bike/car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 22 2007, 06:59 AM) [snapback]96520[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
1. Although should it really be about finding mostly average riders capable of mastering new technology when theres riders who are really talented but are being put in the shade by lesser lights like De Puniet just because Kawasaki mechanics did a good job.

2. Electronics are more important than setting up the bike nowadays, so yes.


1. Having a decent team has always been what the riders look for to have the best chance of winning. Thats why riders always strived to be in the team with Burgess or Kanemoto, because they would get the best out of the bike. Also have you considered that these riders you consider lesser are actually just better than you think they are, things change.

2. Electronics are used to setup the bike, mechanical aspects are cotnroled with electronic equipment. It's just progression from what we used to have rather than a whole knew world that never existed before.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 22 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]96569[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The tyres are single most important component of any racing bike/car.

What i mean is Michelin are not as bad as people are saying they are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 22 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]96569[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
2. Electronics are used to setup the bike, mechanical aspects are cotnroled with electronic equipment. It's just progression from what we used to have rather than a whole knew world that never existed before.


yea, i prefer the old way to be honest at least there was more rider input required.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 22 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]96569[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Also have you considered that these riders you consider lesser are actually just better than you think they are, things change.


Not really, what i do see are complete newbies like West, Davies coming into the best championship in the world and instantly being not far off the pace. Now are these guys experieced at riding or setting up a motogp bike. I would have to say no.

Then say if they get a top 10 they are instantly thought to be good enough at this level.

In my opinion you are only a top rider if you win races in Motogp that is still the difficult part, getting top 10 is not that hard when theres not alot between the entire field anymore.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 21 2007, 02:25 PM) [snapback]96366[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Dam electronics spoiling the fun, i guess you got to have a perfect start now or your race is over and they all go single file like Formula One.

It didn't seem as noticable with the 990 maybe because it took more skill to ride it.


In a recent interview to Motosprint, Rossi said that riding these 800's is like having ... with condoms, when compared to the old 990's... Stoner also has said that he would like to go back to the 990's, - that means Adriana is not jealous
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vibe @ Oct 22 2007, 06:16 AM) [snapback]96512[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.......OR, get a new bunch of riders who are capable of mastering the technology at the same level (and beyond) of where Casey is right now.

This is nothing against Stoner, but what you say is get driver that "master" automatic shifting instead of manual, or even better, get riders that "master" bikes with support wheels instead of mastering the bike on two wheels.
As mentioned above, we allready see those new riders: West, Davis and little brother Hayden comming in as wildcards or replacing others, doing suspisiously well. The electronics take away some of the need for traditional riding skill. What comes instead is not something new but some of the same old skills. Particulary to get the line right.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
Based on the above argument he has come to terms with what has been presented to him. Everyone else (e.g. Capi and Barros - same bike same tech - and other teams who obviously are witnessing the current spectacle) just have to catch up. So it's not "technology's" fault. Catch up everybody then we might get some closer racing?????

That's something not even Stoner himself belives. He's good, very good, but so are his equipment and together it's the best package out there.
That Capi and Barros can't handle it doesnt change that. Look at Rossi/Edwards, similar difference, but that difference has been there from the beginning through the development of tc and long before the 800.
 
All those electronics were there on the 990's. I think it is more the fact that Rossi isn't winning...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hopper_fan @ Oct 23 2007, 05:49 AM) [snapback]96657[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
All those electronics were there on the 990's. I think it is more the fact that Rossi isn't winning...


Hmmm, not quite... The 990 bikes did have some traction control especially after 2003, but they simply didnt need so much because they could use simpler things like 'big bang' to make the power more manageable. Big bang decreases peak power but who cared, the 990s had power to burn.

With the 800s they all had to revert to 'screamer' configurations in search for more power, and so electronics have become much more dominant, especially since the 21 liter rule was also enforced. This is another field of Ducaty supremacy by the way, they have developed some really clever software in this area.
Plus they have the desmo system which allows for better power and fuel efficiency in the mid-range, so the new formula really seems written for them, in spite of the fact that it was Honda (ironically) pushing it through!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Oct 23 2007, 09:23 AM) [snapback]96661[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hmmm, not quite... The 990 bikes did have some traction control especially after 2003, but they simply didnt need so much because they could use simpler things like 'big bang' to make the power more manageable. Big bang decreases peak power but who cared, the 990s had power to burn.

With the 800s they all had to revert to 'screamer' configurations in search for more power, and so electronics have become much more dominant


The electronics were not less important on the 990's at all, these bikes had MORE power to tame. The difference is that the 800's have been designed from scratch with electronic systems considered and factored in. The 990's stared off without to much electronic control and had it added on as they evolved.

As for all the teams reverting to a screamer, tell me which teams you think have done so. Because i will tell you that so far its only Ducati.
 

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