Ducati 2010 season

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 9 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duc, it is far from dissapointing, in fact I take your opinion as official as it can get, thanks for the honesty mate. There is no f´en answer then, I can dig that. Which takes us to a circle leaving it unclear, it is not such a big deal to not know, just don't rush bashing who said 'unclear' please.

Not taken personally at all mate, thanks again.

Added Note: I know you were not the one that bashed the word 'unclear' first of all.

Okay, I'll concede I could have done without the "fking". My apologies for writing while frustrated VH. I'm simply amazed at how many posters have concluded that b/c an illness is not clearly defined or "officially diagnosed", it therefore cannot be labeled a "real" illness. And by that rational, any logical doubter, or Non-Stoner fan, can righteously label the sufferer of such a nebulous malady a malingerer, or .....
......not that you used those words, of course.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bollo @ Nov 10 2009, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow, Casey had abdominal pain, shingles, chicken pox, bells palsy and herpes? No wonder the poor sod syncope'd on the warmup lap!
It looked to me that having become blase about his longterm warm up lap tactic which does involve going quite fast towards the end of the lap stoner wasn't concentrating and made a stupid error. I haven't seen any claims to the contrary from him or ducati either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 10 2009, 01:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It looked to me that having become blase about his longterm warm up lap tactic which does involve going quite fast towards the end of the lap stoner wasn't concentrating and made a stupid error. I haven't seen any claims to the contrary from him or ducati either.

Don't be silly Mike. Since Ducati has not had a press release from an Official Crash Analyzer, it's obvious that Casey just faked that high-side b/c Rossi "got into his head" pre-warm up lap on the grid. Rossi's a master of mind games you know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Nov 10 2009, 07:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't be silly Mike. Since Ducati has not had a press release from an Official Crash Analyzer, it's obvious that Casey just faked that high-side b/c Rossi "got into his head" pre-warm up lap on the grid. Rossi's a master of mind games you know.


he jumped off on purpose. it was so he would guarantee 4th in the championship and thereby avoid having to attend the FIM awards later that night. also got out of those annoying post race press conference things so he could get another hour of fishing time.

simple really...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 9 2009, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is clear that his illness was caused by the devastating wit and erudition of rossi fans on internet sites, leading to him being struck down by the resultant blinding insight into his obvious shortcomings. This may well also explain his fall on the warm up lap. His management had obviously managed to keep him uninformed earlier in the week-end, but knowing that rossi fans are never wrong probably eventually felt compelled to tell him the prevailing view among them that even having the race let alone winning it was completely pointless, hence him deciding not to bother even completing the warm-up lap.
My cheeks hurt and I just put on a years worth of laugh-lines!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Nov 10 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here's the official answer......I hope you can deal with the insecurity it might give you, but medicine is not a perfect science. 40% of abdominal pain in the Emergency Department is never diagnosed...that's official. Syncope (passing out) is very often never figured out upon discharge from the hospital. That's official. Maybe a doctor has never been honest with you, well here you go, I'll be honest with you. We don't always ....... know why people get sick or get better. Look in a medical text book from just 40 years ago, we had no idea that Shingles (a viral disease characterized by a painful skin rash with blisters) was a re-emergence of the chicken pox virus. Now we know, but guess what, 40 years ago we did not have an Official reason for a shingles out break. Isn't that mind-blowing??? An other example, Bell's palsy, where one's face becomes paralyzed on one side. We think it's virally mediated, in fact we think it might be a herpes virus too, but guess what, only some people get better on anti-herpes meds.........Why is that?? I CANT OFFICIALLY TELL YOU. Neither can the Mayo clinic, or Harvard's best virologists. So, keep waiting for the Official final diagnosis as to what made Casey sick. Are you getting the picture now,.....you won't get it. Because we simply don't know. Medicine is not a science, to use a cliche, it's not black and white. It's an art that's based in science but hinges on biochemical mechanisms which are so complex and varied that it will never be black and white. Sorry to disappoint you.....do not take it personally.
Superb post GD!

"I hope you can deal with the insecurity it might give you, but medicine is not a perfect science"

Although I doubt the average citizen would realize this because, in an (successful) attempt to protect its hegemony, the predominant western medical institution(s) (shh, I'm trying not say AMA ) present a aura of infallibility of modern medicine and scientific/technological approaches...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Nov 10 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay, I'll concede I could have done without the "fking". My apologies for writing while frustrated VH. I'm simply amazed at how many posters have concluded that b/c an illness is not clearly defined or "officially diagnosed", it therefore cannot be labeled a "real" illness. And by that rational, any logical doubter, or Non-Stoner fan, can righteously label the sufferer of such a nebulous malady a malingerer, or .....
......not that you used those words, of course.
I quite agree with you GD. I believe the more relative discussions have been regarding the nature of the cause of the illness, which is clearly "real".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 10 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It looked to me that having become blase about his longterm warm up lap tactic which does involve going quite fast towards the end of the lap stoner wasn't concentrating and made a stupid error. I haven't seen any claims to the contrary from him or ducati either.
Sure seemed that way to me as well... unfortunately because it was warm-up lap we don't have many replays to analyze further.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Nov 10 2009, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't be silly Mike. Since Ducati has not had a press release from an Official Crash Analyzer, it's obvious that Casey just faked that high-side b/c Rossi "got into his head" pre-warm up lap on the grid. Rossi's a master of mind games you know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Nov 10 2009, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When a rider fractures their bone (any one take your pic) do we get a full diagnosis about what type of fracture it is, how severe it is etc etc or do we just get " rider x fractured their leg"? No. Well I would say this is "unclear" then if what has been revealed about Stoners illness is also "unclear".

Maybe they only got a slight hairline fracture that can't even be seen on an x-ray. When Rossi cut his leg on the glass table early in the season, I don't recall hearing how many stitches he got nor did I see a picture of the wound. For all I know he may have cut his leg shaving! I am definitely "unclear" about the extent of that injury.

From now on I want to know what type of fracture it is, I want to see a full set of x-rays in fact I want to be there at the f'ing surgery or else it will now be deemed to be an "unclear" injury/illness and until all this is produced then the rider will be deemed to be chucking a sickie!

There is a real good explanation for that. If they didn't miss a race over it so it really doesnt matter as much. But I do remember them talking about rdp's break in detail. And I bet somewhere you could find out how many stitches Rossi had. I'm willing bet someone in the media asked. And also one had a broken leg and the other had a gash. What more do you need to know? They both raced didn't they?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 10 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a real good explanation for that. If they didn't miss a race over it so it really doesnt matter as much. But I do remember them talking about rdp's break in detail. And I bet somewhere you could find out how many stitches Rossi had. I'm willing bet someone in the media asked. And also one had a broken leg and the other had a gash. What more do you need to know? They both raced didn't they?

Plus the actual point of debate, as I understood (sorry if I missunderstood) was not 'if' Stoner was sick or not, neither 'if' there was a diagnose or not. The point being that 'whatever' the sickness was, makes it unclear.

How thick are you people

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 11 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Plus the actual point of debate, as I understood (sorry if I missunderstood) was not 'if' Stoner was sick or not, neither 'if' there was a diagnose or not. The point being that 'whatever' the sickness was, makes it unclear.

The real point of all these debates has 2 views:

The Rossi fan view is:

Rossi good, any reason Rossi not win is legitimate.
Stoner bad, any reason Stoner beat Rossi revolves around luck or unfair advantage.

All other riders' fans view is:

Rossi good, sometimes excuses why not win are just that...excuses.
Favourite rider (whoever that is) good, when beats Rossi, beats him on merit.

This has been the case since 2006 at least. Probably will be for the next 20+ years because for the next 20 years it will be: only won because Rossi retired!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Nov 11 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The real point of all these debates has 2 views:

The Rossi fan view is:

Rossi good, any reason Rossi not win is legitimate.
Stoner bad, any reason Stoner beat Rossi revolves around luck or unfair advantage.

All other riders' fans view is:

Rossi good, sometimes excuses why not win are just that...excuses.
Favourite rider (whoever that is) good, when beats Rossi, beats him on merit.

This has been the case since 2006 at least. Probably will be for the next 20+ years because for the next 20 years it will be: only won because Rossi retired!!!



Oh I feel your pain! Half a warm up lap, and in the sand pit.......oh the humanity!!!

PS-most of us thought VR was the best rider way before 06. Personally, it was his display in 2001 to gain the 500cc title.......but you might have missed that, no cs then hey......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Nov 10 2009, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The real point of all these debates has 2 views:

The Rossi fan view is:

Rossi good, any reason Rossi not win is legitimate.
Stoner bad, any reason Stoner beat Rossi revolves around luck or unfair advantage.

All other riders' fans view is:

Rossi good, sometimes excuses why not win are just that...excuses.
Favourite rider (whoever that is) good, when beats Rossi, beats him on merit.

This has been the case since 2006 at least. Probably will be for the next 20+ years because for the next 20 years it will be: only won because Rossi retired!!!

Then I am sorry to disappoint you TP, because I see exactly the point you are making from the Stoner (and few other Rider) fans. Most be a matter of who each roots for. Still, hearing others opinions will always make us learn more.

Talpa, Don't get in a pissing comp with me on how long I have been watching MotoGP. The Rossi era is just a blip on the end of it.

I am not even the least bit stressed about Stoner falling on the warm up lap. It was a bone head move. I am certain he won't make the same mistake again.

I wish the same could be said about you. You only have one move and it is a bone head one that you repeat over and over and over again. Predictable, boring and always full of spin and free of fact.

Oh and your little comment about "most of us", I have never seen or heard anyone come in and support your view so talking on behalf of others is not something you should consider that you have the authority to do. Just shows your immaturity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 11 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then I am sorry to disappoint you TP, because I see exactly the point you are making from the Stoner (and few other Rider) fans. Most be a matter of who each roots for. Still, hearing others opinions will always make us learn more.

Not sure of the meaning of your post. But as I stated in my post, it appears to me that most supporters of other riders seem to have a high level of respect for Rossi. I certainaly do. That is why when your favourite rider beats Rossi they have summitted Everest so to speak.

Rossi fans don't need to defend Rossi as the peak of Everest, we all know he is. As with the mountain itself, it defeats many but on occassion there is someone up to the challenge and the summit is conquered!

hmmm...I started reading this post to see what everyone's thoughts are on the GP10 and it's turned into a CS/VR debate...dang offseason!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Nov 11 2009, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Talpa, Don't get in a pissing comp with me on how long I have been watching MotoGP. The Rossi era is just a blip on the end of it.

I am not even the least bit stressed about Stoner falling on the warm up lap. It was a bone head move. I am certain he won't make the same mistake again.

I wish the same could be said about you. You only have one move and it is a bone head one that you repeat over and over and over again. Predictable, boring and always full of spin and free of fact.

Oh and your little comment about "most of us", I have never seen or heard anyone come in and support your view so talking on behalf of others is not something you should consider that you have the authority to do. Just shows your immaturity.

Not sure of the meaning of your post. But as I stated in my post, it appears to me that most supporters of other riders seem to have a high level of respect for Rossi. I certainaly do. That is why when your favourite rider beats Rossi they have summitted Everest so to speak.

Rossi fans don't need to defend Rossi as the peak of Everest, we all know he is. As with the mountain itself, it defeats many but on occassion there is someone up to the challenge and the summit is conquered!

Where you this ...... whiny before becoming a cs fanbeeatch or only after? Where are your facts in this wonderful whinefest? Come to think of it, our whole issue is that we never get any facts about cs. Do you even believe what you write? Obama called he wants you all to work in his cabinet, you bunch of hippocrates.

Tp and all other cs fagboys comments are brought to you by:

8343:SnakeOilSalesmanO.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Nov 11 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmmm...I started reading this post to see what everyone's thoughts are on the GP10 and it's turned into a CS/VR debate...dang offseason!!!!!

Yeah me too. Well screw it I'll give some thoughts on the GP10 anyway.
I'm interested to find out exactly what has been done with the firing order. Most of the info that I read has been off of MotoMatters.com here:
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/09...ay_1_stone.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>No details were given on the changes, but the engine sounded completely different, much more like the big bang configuration of the 990cc version of the bike, rather than the 800cc screamer. Filippo Preziosi has nicknamed the engine "V Twin" though according to the Italian site GPOne.com, it is not the same as the old "twin pulse" firing order used by the 2002 Desmosedici 990.

And here:
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/10...ay_2_loren.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Where the GP9 is a true screamer, the GP10 is being called a "V-Twin", and sounds for all the world like a Yamaha M1. Standing up at the long left hander of Turn 13, watching Jorge Lorenzo chase Nicky Hayden, it was hard to tell the difference between the two bikes.

My assumption would be that they gone from a 180 deg crank to a 360 deg to make the firing order 90-270-90-270. Why they would call this the "V-Twin" I don't know, but then the "twin pulse" wasn't truly a big bang engine either, it just used a 360 crank with split pins to bring the firing pulse closer together.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Nov 11 2009, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Where you this ...... whiny before becoming a cs fanbeeatch or only after? Where are your facts in this wonderful whinefest? Come to think of it, our whole issue is that we never get any facts about cs. Do you even believe what you write? Obama called he wants you all to work in his cabinet, you bunch of hippocrates.

Tp and all other cs fagboys comments are brought to you by:

8343:SnakeOilSalesmanO.jpg]

Jeez... you were pretty rational there for a while.
A little aggressive, no? Maybe time to back off on the "roids?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Nov 11 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Talpa, Don't get in a pissing comp with me on how long I have been watching MotoGP. The Rossi era is just a blip on the end of it.

I am not even the least bit stressed about Stoner falling on the warm up lap. It was a bone head move. I am certain he won't make the same mistake again.

I wish the same could be said about you. You only have one move and it is a bone head one that you repeat over and over and over again. Predictable, boring and always full of spin and free of fact.

Oh and your little comment about "most of us", I have never seen or heard anyone come in and support your view so talking on behalf of others is not something you should consider that you have the authority to do. Just shows your immaturity.


Reeled in a big one with this post!!

Dubsta has already summed this up well, but I thought I might add some more, to clown you up even more.....

Firstly, if VR had crashed in a similar way on the warm up lap, the forum would have crashed with Jum, Pinky, yourself and Bunyip alone hurling ..........so think yourself lucky we haven't taken to this like we could have.

Where do you get your ........ Rossi fan view? Not from any fact, immature creation one might say......I'd say more like sour grapes.

Many other riders have beaten VR on merit, Hayden, Loris, Biaggi, Sete, Pedders, Jorge, Vermulen, Melandri, Edwards, KRJR, Crivelle, why do you only mention CS in your Rossi Fan Drivel? Like he is special or something?

VH has already nailed Jum with facts, but as you want some more here they are......

2009
Highest number of race wins- Valentino Rossi- 6 - FACT
Highest number of fastest laps- Valentino Rossi- 6 Occasions- FACT
Highest number of Podiums- Valentino Rossi- 13 - FACT
Highest number of championship points and 2009 Motogp world champion-Valentino Rossi-FFFFAAACCCTTT

2008
Highest number of race wins- Valentino Rossi- 9 - FACT
Highest number of Podiums- Valentino Rossi- 16 - FACT
Highest number of Championship Points and 2008 Motogp world champion-Valentino Rossi- FFFFAAACCCTTT

Career Stats
Valentino Rossi- All FACTS

World Championship Race Starts- 227
World Championship Race Wins- 103- Race wins per start ratio 1:2.20
World Championship Race Podiums- 164- Podiums per start ratio 1:1.38
World Championship Race Poles- 58
World Championship Fastest Laps-83
World Championship Points- 4026
World Championship Titles- 9
Motogp Titles- 7
250cc Titles-1
125cc Titles-1
Total Titles- 9

As CS is so special to you I'll just add him
Career Stats
Casey Stoner- All FACTS

World Championship Race Starts- 126
World Championship Race Wins- 28- Race wins per start ratio 1:4.5
World Championship Race Podiums- 52- Podiums per start ratio 1:2.42
World Championship Race Poles- 20
World Championship Fastest Laps- 20
World Championship Points- 1542
Motogp Titles-1
250cc Titles-0
125cc Titles-0
Total Titles-1

As others will add the age and relative stats to refute this lets break it down, all of CS's stats above are current at 24 years of age

Valentino Rossi Stats at 24 years of age- up to 2003

World Championship Race Starts- 124
World Championship Race wins- 59- Race wins per start 1:2.10
World Championship Race Podiums- 90- Podiums per start ratio 1:1.37
World Championship Race Poles- 30
World Championship Fastest Laps- 56
World Championship Points- 2188
Moto GP Titles-3
250cc Titles- 1
125cc Titles-1
Total Titles -5

FACTS say it all, Take a good hard look and then place them in any orifice you see fit, the only bone head here is you........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 11 2009, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Reeled in a big one with this post!!

Dubsta has already summed this up well, but I thought I might add some more, to clown you up even more.....

Firstly, if VR had crashed in a similar way on the warm up lap, the forum would have crashed with Jum, Pinky, yourself and Bunyip alone hurling ..........so think yourself lucky we haven't taken to this like we could have.

Where do you get your ........ Rossi fan view? Not from any fact, immature creation one might say......I'd say more like sour grapes.

Many other riders have beaten VR on merit, Hayden, Loris, Biaggi, Sete, Pedders, Jorge, Vermulen, Melandri, Edwards, KRJR, Crivelle, why do you only mention CS in your Rossi Fan Drivel? Like he is special or something?

VH has already nailed Jum with facts, but as you want some more here they are......

FACTS say it all, Take a good hard look and then place them in any orifice you see fit, the only bone head here is you........
You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of ego boundaries.

There is this italian bloke called valentino rossi who has been competing in motogp for some time now who is widely recognised as being rather good. As you again point out he has now won 9 world championships, all the while exhibiting panache and flair greater to a considerable degree than that possessed by his competitors. His record compels any fairminded person to rate him as at least one of the best ever, and it is hard to argue that he is not the very best.

However, and I hope this does not come as too much of a surprise for you, you are not him, but rather a fan of his. It is possible that people who disagree with your posts are doing so because they don't like what you say or the way you present yourself particularly when you are abusive towards other posters or about other riders, rather than because they do not recognise valentino rossi's excellence. When you post about issues such as valentino somehow not being the fastest despite having just handily won the world championship you are justified in taking umbrage, but being a fan of the best rider does not make you automatically correct about all matters motogp which seems to be your essential belief.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 12 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of ego boundaries.

There is this italian bloke called valentino rossi who has been competing in motogp for some time now who is widely recognised as being rather good. As you again point out he has now won 9 world championships, all the while exhibiting panache and flair greater to a considerable degree than that possessed by his competitors. His record compels any fairminded person to rate him as at least one of the best ever, and it is hard to argue that he is not the very best.

However, and I hope this does not come as too much of a surprise for you, you are not him, but rather a fan of his. It is possible that people who disagree with your posts are doing so because they don't like what you say or the way you present yourself particularly when you are abusive towards other posters or about other riders, rather than because they do not recognise valentino rossi's excellence. When you post about issues such as valentino somehow not being the fastest despite having just handily won the world championship you are justified in taking umbrage, but being a fan of the best rider does not make you automatically correct about all matters motogp which seems to be your essential belief.

Well we are seeming somewhat delusional here, since when have I ever claimed to actually be VR? And never have I claimed to be the 'Guru' of all things Motogp as some here do, Seems as though you are scraping the bottom of the barrel in your attempt to rebut this post......

TP said I never give facts to support my argument (which is rubbish), so I gave him some more, whats wrong with that? I believe its important to remind some people of the actual Stats to back up any opinion or argument. Especially fans of Casey Stoner it seems

As for the abuse, well I certainly am not the first, nor will be the last to add spice to the debate here on powerslide, hey if we all got along and just ranted over the tech this and tech that, this would be an entirely different place, with a lot less traffic......