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Dovi's insight on the series

Well no ...., motorcycle racing is just like all other sports, people care about their heroes, the winners and champions.

Rossi will be remembered forever just like others who dominated their sports, Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Mike Tyson just to name a few.
 
J4rn0 said:
Jum, Jum.... How the hell can you say that Dovi -- who, in his very first MotoGP race, beat Rossi at Qatar for 4th place, in 2008 -- is saying or even remotely implying that riders "walk on eggs" around Rossi on the track?
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Uhm, because I can extrapolate. What happens when a rider bumps Rossi? The man is crucified. Perhaps this is why its so rare. Some peeps still blame Elias for costing Rossi his God given right to the 06 title. It’s not that difficult to realize Dovi knows this if he is saying that anything involving Rossi is news. Naturally you don’t want to be the guy that crowded him if you know that’s what the headlines are gonna be in the morning. So yes, from what he’s saying, its rather obvious riders are much more aware when passing or attempting a pass on Rossi; infact that's exactly what he means by saying: "Perhaps it’s even more so with him..." Guess who the "him" is in that statement.
 
Tom said:
Neither i think. To me Dovi is basically saying that to all the riders passing Rossi is a bigger deal, due to his sature and his constant spotlight. I think he is confessing to a certain amount of intimidation that Rossi has over the others, and that Lorenzo has gone some way to breaking that by beating Rossi straight up and showing the others that you can beat him.
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Agree. Its a good thing Dovi is saying it though, because based on the 'oh its not really a big deal' tone i'm reading, it smacks of the double standard if say Stoner or Lorenzo would have said it, eh.
 
Jumkie said:
Agree. Its a good thing Dovi is saying it though, because based on the 'oh its not really a big deal' tone i'm reading, it smacks of the double standard if say Stoner or Lorenzo would have said it, eh.
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What do you mean?
 
Jumkie said:
Uhm, because I can extrapolate. What happens when a rider bumps Rossi? The man is crucified. Perhaps this is why its so rare. Some peeps still blame Elias for costing Rossi his God given right to the 06 title. It's not that difficult to realize Dovi knows this if he is saying that anything involving Rossi is news. Naturally you don't want to be the guy that crowded him if you know that's what the headlines are gonna be in the morning. So yes, from what he's saying, its rather obvious riders are much more aware when passing or attempting a pass on Rossi; infact that's exactly what he means by saying: "Perhaps it's even more so with him..." Guess who the "him" is in that statement.
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They are more aware with "him", sure, in the sense that they try even harder than normal -- and the examples of Elias etc. prove that they do try harder -- not that they don't, as in your very personal vision you seem to believe (or make believe).

"Extrapolate", nice euphemism -- I would rather call that twisting things your way. Now, come on, twist again...
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P.S.: I read that itw in Italian as well. At no time the thought that he could possibly imply what you have "extrapolated" crossed my mind. Dovi was basically complaining that the media (especially Italian media I'd say) do not give much attention to riders unless they beat Rossi, or at least fight with him. His 2nd places have passed almost unnoticed and he's not happy about that. When he beat Rossi to 4th in his rookie maiden race, instead, all the media interviewed him. Thats' what he's meaning there when he says "it's a bit unjust".
 
J4rn0 said:
They are more aware with "him", sure, in the sense that they try even harder than normal -- and the examples of Elias etc. prove that they do try harder -- not that they don't, as in your very personal vision you seem to believe (or make believe).

"Extrapolate", nice euphemism -- I would rather call that twisting things your way. Now, come on, twist again...
laugh.gif
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You accept that they are more aware and therefore push to pass Rossi, but can NOTaccept that this extra awareness drives them to given greater attention to overtake cleanly? What then because regarding the extra attention it will bring if they don't? If anything is twisted, its your sense of reality and logic.





J4rn0 said:
P.S.: I read that itw in Italian as well. At no time the thought that he could possibly imply what you have "extrapolated" crossed my mind. Dovi was basically complaining that the media (especially Italian media I'd say) do not give much attention to riders unless they beat Rossi, or at least fight with him. His 2nd places have passed almost unnoticed and he's not happy about that. When he beat Rossi to 4th in his rookie maiden race, instead, all the media interviewed him. Thats' what he's meaning there when he says "it's a bit unjust".
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Ah yes, I've read before you telling us how its sounds so different in Italian. After all, weren't you the one that told of when Rossi took a dig at Stoner that in Italian it sounded simply "a light hearted joke"? Talk about "twisting"...
 
Jumkie said:
You accept that they are more aware and therefore push to pass Rossi, but can NOTaccept that this extra awareness drives them to given greater attention to overtake cleanly? What then because regarding the extra attention it will bring if they don't? If anything is twisted, its your sense of reality and logic.









Ah yes, I've read before you telling us how its sounds so different in Italian. After all, weren't you the one that told of when Rossi took a dig at Stoner that in Italian it sounded simply "a light hearted joke"? Talk about "twisting"...
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I didn't say in Italian it is different -- I said it is the same. And that your "extrapolations" exist only in your wishful thinking. Period.



Rossi's joke about Stoner was a joke in Italian -- it became serious only when translated. That was a case of mistranslation, in Dovi's case you do not even have that justification for twisting it.
<






Your theory that Rossi is treated extra politely on track by his "intimidated" rivals is very funny -- Capirossi, Biaggi, Gibernau, Elias, Stoner et al. all have played hard tricks (documented in video) on Rossi whenever they had the opportunity.
 
Jumkie said:
If Stoner said Rossi gets all the attention or requires special consideration to pass, what might this thread sound like?
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I think and say a lot of things about Stoner but to his credit I don't think he is intimidated by anyone and second, he's not an attention seeker.
 
RCV600RR said:
I understand Jumkie, that you feel that Rossi has a lot of power, perhaps even too much. That is another discussion, however, I am raising that point to suggest, respectfully, that I think that this may be colouring your interpretation of what Dovi is saying.



He is describing the situation that Valentino has become the show. You beat him in a battle for fifth, and you are praised, it's in the news. Again, even if it's for fifth, it's the fact that you passed Rossi.



But, if you finish 2nd, and Rossi isn't involved in the scrap, the achievement is diminished.



I'm not sure that there is any suggestion, implicitly, that riders are more careful when overtaking Rossi than other riders. In fact, due to the situation Dovi described, I would suggest that they would have a greater incentive to pass him.
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I'm with RCV600 on this one. A bit of stretching here jums...
 
woody996 said:
I think and say a lot of things about Stoner but to his credit I don't think he is intimidated by anyone and second, he's not an attention seeker.
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Not only Stoner, but the others as well -- I've never seen anybody becoming "hesitant" when they have to overtake Rossi -- quite the opposite. Even for the lesser riders, it's their chance to be in the limelight. They are sure the cameras will show the replay three times, and gung-ho they go for it, if they can.
 
J4rn0 said:
Not only Stoner, but the others as well -- I've never seen anybody becoming "hesitant" when they have to overtake Rossi -- quite the opposite. Even for the lesser riders, it's their chance to be in the limelight. They are sure the cameras will show the replay three times, and gung-ho they go for it, if they can.
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completely agree here



rossi may has built that psychological advantage over some riders that fear him, but on the other hand this enables all the riders to shine if they're able to pass him.

passing rossi must be the ultimate accolade
 
woody996 said:
I think and say a lot of things about Stoner but to his credit I don't think he is intimidated by anyone and second, he's not an attention seeker.
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Thank you, these guys are all hardened alpha personalities, I don't think any of them would be some kind of ..... that would cry about being intimidated by the media or another rider.
 
hawkdriver said:
Thank you, these guys are all hardened alpha personalities, I don't think any of them would be some kind of ..... that would cry about being intimidated by the media or another rider.
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You are framing it as intimidation to make Dovi's comments implausible.



Ah, so perhaps Dovi's comments were imaginary then (like everything else that cast a light on the Rossi-series dynamic).
 
J4rn0 said:
Not only Stoner, but the others as well -- I've never seen anybody becoming "hesitant" when they have to overtake Rossi -- quite the opposite. Even for the lesser riders, it's their chance to be in the limelight. They are sure the cameras will show the replay three times, and gung-ho they go for it, if they can.
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Maybe the only exception was Pedrosa. There was a time there (before Rossi's leg injury) that Pedrosa was whipped everytime Rossi came near him on the track. You just always knew how it would end.
 
Jumkie said:
You are framing it as intimidation to make Dovi's comments implausible.



Ah, so perhaps Dovi's comments were imaginary then (light everything else that cast a light on the Rossi-series dynamic).
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I think J4rno is the best person to comment on this thread due to comments being made by someone who is an Italian native speaker rather than English. I think it is very hard to interpret them correctly if not translated correctly or if Dovi's choice of the English equivalent word is not quite right. In light of that, I there may be a mountain being made out of a molehill.



I think there is a media circus that goes with Rossi (especially in Italian circles) which Dovi was commenting on. I guess it makes everyone more aware when they are near VR on the track and I think it drives them to want to beat him more.
 
Obviously it’s just the Rossi factor; everyone wants to beat him no matter what position they are in.

Example...Rossi’s comeback ride at Laguna, Stoner was in third and his pace had dropped off, as soon as Rossi arrived then Stoner found a bit more enthusiasm and managed to hold the maestro off.
<
 
Jumkie said:
But going back to ur first point, that Dovi is basically saying jounos fixate on VR when in fact others deserve attention i think we agree?
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Yes, certainly. Some Journalists seem to feel that Rossi is MotoGP. Perhaps in a commercial sense, but not in a sporting sense, as I'm sure you'll agree.



By the way, it's quite refreshing to see someone consider how they may be affected by their own bias. Keep up the good posts.
 

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