Dovi's insight on the series

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

I thought Dovi gave a rather insightful take on the series during a brief interview at the Bologna motor show. As i read his comments, it got me thinking about how differently comments are received by us fans of the sport. Ok, now bare with me, I know I have my detractors who will probably appear and say this thread is crap. But I don't think I've imagined just how different the comments of riders are perceived by the spectators and sport media, right? For example: On one hand we have Stoner, who upon saying anything (sometimes saying nothing at all) is chalked up to "whining" or some variation of complaining, while in contrast, what Rossi says is received much more amicably (to say the least, I was gonna say 'the word of God'). When Lorenzo complained about the Motegi exchange with Rossi, it was met with vestibule feelings of Stoner's exchange with Rossi at Laguna 08. One one side we had peeps saying, it was all normal and fair play, while the other said its Rossi's bully antics as usual. The point being that there is a polarity and at the center of it is Rossi. (Disclaimer, I know this thread has the potential of digressing, but for the moment, lets see if we can talk a bit about the following):

Check out Dovi's comments here in response to asked his thoughts on the incoming season:

A lingering challenge in Dovizioso’s eyes remains nine-time World Champion Valentino Rossi, who he says presents a very different challenge both on the track and beyond. "We are all conditioned, by the past, by human relationships, by the situation, when we try to overtake one rider as opposed to another. Perhaps it’s even more so with him because, if you beat him, it’s immediately in the news, even if it's only for fifth place. Then maybe another time you come second and they don’t write about you because he isn’t involved. That's a little unjust,” he concluded. link

I though this was very interesting. He alludes to the condition that riders feel when passing certain riders, particularly Rossi. Am I projecting here in thinking that the riders take a special approach and care when overtaking Rossi because they don't want to upset the powers that be? Also, he alludes to the series revolving too much around Rossi, as he puts it, even if one makes a great accomplishment, its not news unless somehow it involved Rossi, and conclude, its "unjust".

Now this is Dovi we are talking about, not somebody we can dismiss as a mere vindictive character and comment like its been custom to do (unfairly in my opinion) with the likes of Biaggi, and lately Melandri, and in times past, Gibernau. I remember recently, Kropo got some heat for saying that some paddock insiders feel Rossi has too much power in the sport. So what then about Dovi's comment here? Is Dovi just whining for the attention he's not getting, or is he making a fair assessment on the state of the sport's impartiality to one of its contestants? If so, is this another indictment upon the scripted nature of the sport?

Discuss...

xx CURVE xx · Dec 7, 2010

Traverser · Dec 7, 2010

He makes a good point. Though it must be frustrating to always being in #46's shadow, at least he isn't racing with the stars of the pre-internet era. Hell back in the day you would only read what he had to say in his hometown paper. The spotlight shows more detail now a days. It is easy to come across as a whiner.

povol · Dec 7, 2010

Jumkie said:
I thought Dovi gave a rather insightful take on the series during a brief interview at the Bologna motor show. As i read his comments, it got me thinking about how differently comments are received by us fans of the sport. Ok, now bare with me, I know I have my detractors who will probably appear and say this thread is crap. But I don't think I've imagined just how different the comments of riders are perceived by the spectators and sport media, right? For example: On one hand we have Stoner, who upon saying anything (sometimes saying nothing at all) is chalked up to "whining" or some variation of complaining, while in contrast, what Rossi says is received much more amicably (to say the least, I was gonna say 'the word of God'). When Lorenzo complained about the Motegi exchange with Rossi, it was met with vestibule feelings of Stoner's exchange with Rossi at Laguna 08. One one side we had peeps saying, it was all normal and fair play, while the other said its Rossi's bully antics as usual. The point being that there is a polarity and at the center of it is Rossi. (Disclaimer, I know this thread has the potential of digressing, but for the moment, lets see if we can talk a bit about the following):

Check out Dovi's comments here in response to asked his thoughts on the incoming season:

I though this was very interesting. He alludes to the condition that riders feel when passing certain riders, particularly Rossi. Am I projecting here in thinking that the riders take a special approach and care when overtaking Rossi because they don't want to upset the powers that be? Also, he alludes to the series revolving too much around Rossi, as he puts it, even if one makes a great accomplishment, its not news unless somehow it involved Rossi, and conclude, its "unjust".

Now this is Dovi we are talking about, not somebody we can dismiss as a mere vindictive character and comment like its been custom to do (unfairly in my opinion) with the likes of Biaggi, and lately Melandri, and in times past, Gibernau. I remember recently, Kropo got some heat for saying that some paddock insiders feel Rossi has too much power in the sport. So what then about Dovi's comment here? Is Dovi just whining for the attention he's not getting, or is he making a fair assessment on the state of the sport's impartiality to one of its contestants? If so, is this another indictment upon the scripted nature of the sport?

Discuss...

A little of both. I dont think there is any doubt that Rossi gets preferential treatment and other riders walk, or ride, on eggshells when he is around.With that being said, it is up to the other riders NOT to be on eggshells around Rossi The one exception oblivious to Rossi's Jedi mind tricks is Lorenzo, and possibly Spies, IF he proves he can ride up with the big boys. As far as the press, what are you going to do, they will print and report what the reader wants to see and hear. Take this past weekend for instance, Tiger Woods lost a tournament, no big deal, he has not won in a year, but the story was, Woods loses tourney after leading the first 3 rounds. Every sports network was up Tigers ... because he ALMOST won a tournament, while the poor stiff that made up 4 strokes on the final day to win is nowhere to be found. It makes me want to throw the remore thru the ....... screen

BarryMachine · Dec 7, 2010

I fixed it for you Curve:

"Haters"

you sound like a kid crying to mummy cos someone won't play with them .......

You need a few months at Edwards's boot camp to harden up a bit, though I suspect Edwards would ot be able to help your "buttercup bopperism"

I'm only interested in Dovi's take on his new team mate, and it was an interesting comment about his relationship with Dani, not what some on here would like to imagine

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

povol said:
A little of both. I dont think there is any doubt that Rossi gets preferential treatment and other riders walk, or ride, on eggshells when he is around.With that being said, it is up to the other riders NOT to be on eggshells around Rossi The one exception oblivious to Rossi's Jedi mind tricks is Lorenzo, and possibly Spies, IF he proves he can ride up with the big boys.

As to your point about Lorenzo. Dovi actually mentioned a bit of what you allude to above. He said:

"You know Jorge hasn’t been my favourite, ever since we raced in the lower categories. But this year he has dominated and deserved everything he has won. What if Rossi hadn’t been injured? Who knows? But something has changed there at a psychological level, for everyone.

This sounds like he's saying that Lorenzo ushered in a break through in the sport by defying the "condition" the riders have felt around Rossi and moving past it. In other words, as you say, Lorenzo was "oblivious to Rossi's Jedi mind tricks" and he rose above. It certainly seemed to effect Rossi's dynamic in the Yamaha squad. Is Dovi saying this example has been a break through in what otherwise would be a continuation of Rossi's grasp both mental and within the series itself? I ask because Dovi says, "... Valentino Rossi, who he says presents a very different challenge both on the track and beyond." alluding to the total challenge that is Rossi.

as to your second point...

povol said:
As far as the press, what are you going to do, they will print and report what the reader wants to see and hear. Take this past weekend for instance, Tiger Woods lost a tournament, no big deal, he has not won in a year, but the story was, Woods loses tourney after leading the first 3 rounds. Every sports network was up Tigers ... because he ALMOST won a tournament, while the poor stiff that made up 4 strokes on the final day to win is nowhere to be found. It makes me want to throw the remore thru the ....... screen

What the .... are you doing watching the golf channel?

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

BarryMachine said:
I fixed it for you Curve:

[... for tat gif]

"Haters"

you sound like a kid crying to mummy cos someone won't play with them .......

You need a few months at Edwards's boot camp to harden up a bit, though I suspect Edwards would ot be able to help your "buttercup bopperism"

I'm only interested in Dovi's take on his new team mate, and it was an interesting comment about his relationship with Dani, not what some on here would like to imagine

BM, though I think your reply was as clever as Curves, lets not give Talps a reason to troll and then say, well you did it so I can too.

About your take on his relationship with Peders, aren't you embellishing a bit? He said they have breakfast every now and then, assuming its in the hospitality tent, and that is usually a very small place. (Not that you would know since you can't be bothered to fight the traffic to go to a live GP). So please, lets not go saying Dovi and Pedro are sucking eachothers dicks just yet.

About his take on Stoner (I'm sure it made you very happy) but he's not saying anything different than a long list of guys have said, that is, Stoner is a phenom on the track.

xx CURVE xx · Dec 7, 2010

struck a nerve a inmate?

RCV600RR · Dec 7, 2010

Jumkie said:
I though this was very interesting. He alludes to the condition that riders feel when passing certain riders, particularly Rossi. Am I projecting here in thinking that the riders take a special approach and care when overtaking Rossi because they don't want to upset the powers that be?

I understand Jumkie, that you feel that Rossi has a lot of power, perhaps even too much. That is another discussion, however, I am raising that point to suggest, respectfully, that I think that this may be colouring your interpretation of what Dovi is saying.

He is describing the situation that Valentino has become the show. You beat him in a battle for fifth, and you are praised, it's in the news. Again, even if it's for fifth, it's the fact that you passed Rossi.

But, if you finish 2nd, and Rossi isn't involved in the scrap, the achievement is diminished.

I'm not sure that there is any suggestion, implicitly, that riders are more careful when overtaking Rossi than other riders. In fact, due to the situation Dovi described, I would suggest that they would have a greater incentive to pass him.

michaelm · Dec 7, 2010

RCV600RR said:
I understand Jumkie, that you feel that Rossi has a lot of power, perhaps even too much. That is another discussion, however, I am raising that point to suggest, respectfully, that I think that this may be colouring your interpretation of what Dovi is saying.

He is describing the situation that Valentino has become the show. You beat him in a battle for fifth, and you are praised, it's in the news. Again, even if it's for fifth, it's the fact that you passed Rossi.

But, if you finish 2nd, and Rossi isn't involved in the scrap, the achievement is diminished.

I'm not sure that there is any suggestion, implicitly, that riders are more careful when overtaking Rossi than other riders. In fact, due to the situation Dovi described, I would suggest that they would have a greater incentive to pass him.

I agree . I would draw very little from this apart from observing that dovi is pretty much engaged in the usual bland public relations speak. It is hardly news that rossi dominates media interest, and povol's parallel with tiger woods in golf is an apposite one.

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

RCV600RR said:
I understand Jumkie, that you feel that Rossi has a lot of power, perhaps even too much. That is another discussion, however, I am raising that point to suggest, respectfully, that I think that this may be colouring your interpretation of what Dovi is saying.

He is describing the situation that Valentino has become the show. You beat him in a battle for fifth, and you are praised, it's in the news. Again, even if it's for fifth, it's the fact that you passed Rossi.

But, if you finish 2nd, and Rossi isn't involved in the scrap, the achievement is diminished.

I'm not sure that there is any suggestion, implicitly, that riders are more careful when overtaking Rossi than other riders. In fact, due to the situation Dovi described, I would suggest that they would have a greater incentive to pass him.

Yes, good point RC. I thought it was interesting that he said they are "conditioned", but as u say perhaps this is a condition to pass him, where as im reading it, they must give him extra room. That may be my bias. But i think Dovi does make the point that some kind of special consideration goes into the thought, notice he said especially with "him".

But going back to ur first point, that Dovi is basically saying jounos fixate on VR when in fact others deserve attention i think we agree?

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

michaelm said:
I agree . I would draw very little from this apart from observing that dovi is pretty much engaged in the usual bland public relations speak. It is hardly news that rossi dominates media interest, and povol's parallel with tiger woods in golf is an apposite one.

Strictly the way u put it regarding the coverage of the sport, Yeah. But acceptance of what it suggests, No. Also, i dont think his comments wer usual "bland" media speak at all. I thought it was unusually candid. He admits he must up his mental game. Admits hes not a Lorenzo fan but gives him props. He offers a sobering assessment of what is to be his new rival from within the team. And gives us a unpopular if not risky view of Rossi's media domination. FAR from bland. U want bland, check out an interview from Spies or worse, Kallio.

dwoodhouse · Dec 7, 2010

Jumkie said:
Yes, good point RC. I thought it was interesting that he said they are "conditioned", but as u say perhaps this is a condition to pass him, where as im reading it, they must give him extra room. That may be my bias. But i think Dovi does make the point that some kind of special consideration goes into the thought, notice he said especially with "him".

But going back to ur first point, that Dovi is basically saying jounos fixate on VR when in fact others deserve attention i think we agree?

I think journos are fixated on VR. Why? That's what sells to the "yellow army" which is a huge part of the viewership. Is it right? No because other people's achievements aren't given all the credit they necessarily deserve. What can we do about it? Stop buying yellow products, start booing VR etc. That will change what the media shows.

Dovi has made his point which is valid but I say leave it at that otherwise he comes across as a poor little boy who is upset because noone is looking at him. Ultimately, the world is corrupt, is not fair, not just and doesn't give credit where it's due all the time. In light of that Dovi should be grateful that he is in a better position than 98% of the world's population because if he was born as someone else in say Africa, he may not have made it to this age.

xx CURVE xx · Dec 7, 2010

like dunking on Jordan... but he's still Jordan

Jumkie · Dec 7, 2010

woody996 said:
I think journos are fixated on VR. Why? That's what sells to the "yellow army" which is a huge part of the viewership. Is it right? No because other people's achievements aren't given all the credit they necessarily deserve. What can we do about it? Stop buying yellow products, start booing VR etc. That will change what the media shows.

Dovi has made his point which is valid but I say leave it at that otherwise he comes across as a poor little boy who is upset because noone is looking at him. Ultimately, the world is corrupt, is not fair, not just and doesn't give credit where it's due all the time. In light of that Dovi should be grateful that he is in a better position than 98% of the world's population because if he was born as someone else in say Africa, he may not have made it to this age.

very funny Woods. Ok point taken. But dude, despite ur sarcasm there is an element of truth in ur first point but at the same time it says something about the state of the sport, now doesnt it?

Ur second point, not sure how to respond. So what, Rossi then is God's sire? What if Rossi would hav been born in Afganistan? Uhm really, so Dovi should just suck it up, be happy with his lot? Ah ok, thank u master Rossi.

C'mon on dude, is nobody worthy of criticizing the inequitable without being himself an ungrateful whining ....?

dwoodhouse · Dec 7, 2010

Jumkie said:
very funny Woods. Ok point taken. But dude, despite ur sarcasm there is an element of truth in ur first point but at the same time it says something about the state of the sport, now doesnt it?

Ur second point, not sure how to respond. So what, Rossi then is God's sire? What if Rossi would hav been born in Afganistan? Uhm really, so Dovi should just suck it up, be happy with his lot? Ah ok, thank u master Rossi.

C'mon on dude, is nobody worthy of criticizing the inequitable without being himself an ungrateful whining ....?

It's more the state of the world that is the issue.

Yes if Rossi was born in Afghanistan, he would never have seen a motogp bike let alone have the success.

I have no issue with Dovi making the statement that it is unjust but I think that if he were to go any further and keep repeating it, he would get labelled when really, his bad days are better than a hell of a lot of people's best days.

J4rn0 · Dec 8, 2010

Jum, Jum....

How the hell can you say that Dovi -- who, in his very first MotoGP race, beat Rossi at Qatar for 4th place, in 2008 -- is saying or even remotely implying that riders "walk on eggs" around Rossi on the track?

First, Dovi was referring to the media. He said that to get visibility a rider has to beat Rossi! He says that beating Rossi for 5th place gives you more visibility than arriving 2nd without fighting Rossi.

If anything, he's saying the opposite of what you would make him say, because that is an incentive to try and beat Rossi.

Which is what we all know. What a revelation

Talpa · Dec 8, 2010

michaelm said:
I agree . I would draw very little from this apart from observing that dovi is pretty much engaged in the usual bland public relations speak. It is hardly news that rossi dominates media interest, and povol's parallel with tiger woods in golf is an apposite one.

completely agree, hardly news at all.

Tom · Dec 8, 2010

Jumkie said:
Is Dovi just whining for the attention he's not getting, or is he making a fair assessment on the state of the sport's impartiality to one of its contestants?

Neither i think. To me Dovi is basically saying that to all the riders passing Rossi is a bigger deal, due to his sature and his constant spotlight. I think he is confessing to a certain amount of intimidation that Rossi has over the others, and that Lorenzo has gone some way to breaking that by beating Rossi straight up and showing the others that you can beat him.

Keshav · Dec 8, 2010

Jumkie said:
I thought Dovi gave a rather insightful take on the series during a brief interview at the Bologna motor show. As i read his comments, it got me thinking about how differently comments are received by us fans of the sport. Ok, now bare with me, I know I have my detractors who will probably appear and say this thread is crap. But I don't think I've imagined just how different the comments of riders are perceived by the spectators and sport media, right? For example: On one hand we have Stoner, who upon saying anything (sometimes saying nothing at all) is chalked up to "whining" or some variation of complaining, while in contrast, what Rossi says is received much more amicably (to say the least, I was gonna say 'the word of God'). When Lorenzo complained about the Motegi exchange with Rossi, it was met with vestibule feelings of Stoner's exchange with Rossi at Laguna 08. One one side we had peeps saying, it was all normal and fair play, while the other said its Rossi's bully antics as usual. The point being that there is a polarity and at the center of it is Rossi. (Disclaimer, I know this thread has the potential of digressing, but for the moment, lets see if we can talk a bit about the following):

Check out Dovi's comments here in response to asked his thoughts on the incoming season:

I though this was very interesting. He alludes to the condition that riders feel when passing certain riders, particularly Rossi. Am I projecting here in thinking that the riders take a special approach and care when overtaking Rossi because they don't want to upset the powers that be? Also, he alludes to the series revolving too much around Rossi, as he puts it, even if one makes a great accomplishment, its not news unless somehow it involved Rossi, and conclude, its "unjust".

Now this is Dovi we are talking about, not somebody we can dismiss as a mere vindictive character and comment like its been custom to do (unfairly in my opinion) with the likes of Biaggi, and lately Melandri, and in times past, Gibernau. I remember recently, Kropo got some heat for saying that some paddock insiders feel Rossi has too much power in the sport. So what then about Dovi's comment here? Is Dovi just whining for the attention he's not getting, or is he making a fair assessment on the state of the sport's impartiality to one of its contestants? If so, is this another indictment upon the scripted nature of the sport?

Discuss...

Two words: That's showbiz.

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