Development Rider
- Thread starter frethammer
- Start date
-
- Tags
- development rider
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Never a dull moment at least .....
I was actually thinking the boppers would suggest just that,
Never a dull moment at least .....
You idiots can't actually see im complementing Stoner. Stoner has a gift but he doesn't have the full package. Rossi was never the fastest bloke on track but had the full package. How many times did we see him start on 3rd row or worse but podium, .... up a start but podium?
Give stoner a new bike and my money is on him, let him second guess himself and start playing with .... and it all goes to pieces.
Give rossi a new bike and he will struggle, let6 him play and tyou will end up with a bike that is usuable for many riders and can win.
Now when your talking development there are different levels. There is factory development and race team input to either fine tune what the factory has or direct them to something else. 2 other riders won wc's on ex Rossi bikes. Stoner has won 2 wc's on bike developed by others but knobody has gelled with his ex bikes, not even him so far !
Pure speculation. You have no idea what is happening in the Stoner pit box. If he was doing nothing then why doesn't he just go out and circulate during FP's and have fun? You are suggesting that during his time at Ducati Stoner's response to the question of what is the bike doing or what does it need? Stoner's response was "I don't know".
The day Rossi turned up at Yamaha they had a full complement of options for him to try and he picked what he liked. This is exactly what Stoner did at Honda and the result was exactly the same.
You also conveniently forget that a major reason Stoner left Ducati was because they would not make the changes he suggested. It was left to him and his pit crew to find a solution with what they had. They did and they won races because of it. After all the many changes Ducati have thrown at it this year they have come to the same conclusion as what Stoner did - the weight distribution is wrong. Nothing to do with materials at all.
Well, there are multiple explanations for the failure of the Ducati to find real improvements this year - the factory being unable (logistically, practically or financially) to provide the correct solution to the feedback is the foremost one in my mind.
They have had years of feedback from Loris, Melandri, Stoner, Hayden, Rossi....and have been essentially been unable to make any serious improvement from their good effort in 2007.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
And yet they have visibly thrown the most into the effort compared to all the other factories.
How many other teams have requested all the extra changes to test times?
How many frames have Ducati thrown in this year?
They even had to start in the pit lane because they had to change so much.
Where do you guys dream up such poppycock
Ducati has done more changes than all the other teams put together, and still they go backwards. And Rossi has not even got anywhere near Stoner's pace on the Duc. yet.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
i wonder why you keep up the myth that rossi developed anything and stoner didn't .let me guess : lorenzo also won only because of rossi, as did hayden because rossi rode that bike a few years back right ?
fact is we don't know how much input those guys give, all we know is that both rossis and stoners crews are super happy with their feedback (or at least stoners crew was this year....)
and seeing how much ducati have done for rossi i can't figure out why anyone would hold on to that myth
i wonder how well rossi will gel with what is undeniably "his" bike compared to the .... ducati gave stoner and just told him to go faster
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
Only in Oz Barry, where the general consensus is that Paul Hogan is funny and that AC DC aren't Scottish.
Not to mention that the only Aussie who could ever play bass is Flea, an he went to the states to learn.
Thought you were building me a fretless ukulele bass for my Xmas anyway ya bugger?
Pete
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
And yet they have visibly thrown the most into the effort compared to all the other factories.
How many other teams have requested all the extra changes to test times?
How many frames have Ducati thrown in this year?
They even had to start in the pit lane because they had to change so much.
Where do you guys dream up such poppycock
Ducati has done more changes than all the other teams put together, and still they go backwards. And Rossi has not even got anywhere near Stoner's pace on the Duc. yet.
Yes Barry, Honda gave Spencer a Fireblade, he took the lights off, told the bike it's engine outweighed it's fairing (copyright Paul Hogan 1983) and won the title, there were no changes to the bike from day one. Obviously from the company that covers its robot with a sheet when it falls down stairs, they would never have to change anything to suit a rider. Even when they couldn't win a raffle with Asimo riding it. If Rossi is developing the Ducati (a bike that's reputation outweighs it's usefulness, copyright Paul Hogan, 1973) and is changing it into a bike that other folk can win on other than just folks whose teeth outweigh their fuel capacity (copyright, Paul Hogan, 1988) then what's the problem?
Just like Rog, am bigging up Freddie here, he took the Honda, made the bike work for him and won.
Just shut yir puss and bulid me my fretless U Bass
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
i wonder why you keep up the myth that rossi developed anything and stoner didn't .let me guess : lorenzo also won only because of rossi, as did hayden because rossi rode that bike a few years back right ?
fact is we don't know how much input those guys give, all we know is that both rossis and stoners crews are super happy with their feedback (or at least stoners crew was this year....)
and seeing how much ducati have done for rossi i can't figure out why anyone would hold on to that myth
i wonder how well rossi will gel with what is undeniably "his" bike compared to the .... ducati gave stoner and just told him to go faster
But everyone is ..... apart fae Rossi, it's simple.
Well of course its speculation, thats what forums are for as neither of us work for any teams ! I even said in an earlier post that whether its stoners or ducatis fault is debatable.
Now you saying im implying stoner said "idont know" when asked about problem is bollocks and just trying to put words into my mouth. You show me where i said that ? If anything im sayuing he would have been better off saying that than trying to tinker because when he has it fall's to pieces or so it seems from a spectators view.
Riding around problems is his thing not solving problems.
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
I think his mouth outweighs his knowledge Chops. sorry I just phoned Paul Hogan for a witty retort
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Maybe this is why their (Ducait) "lost" on what to do right now. I mean, Loris and Melandri never really won any Motogp championship. Casey wasn't yet a proven multi-championship rider till now (well, he has the ability, but as of what I've read; Ducati just somehow mismanaged him or of somesort), Hayden really didn't have a dominating championship. These are the guys the Dukes are getting feedback from till Rossi. Unlike the Yams and Honda's who were able to produce multi-champs. And so were able to consistently have good factory bikes on the grid. Not winning or not, they do have a history of winning so I think it's safe to assume to know (or have learned) enough from those experiences. Ducati though I don't know (multi-champs in SBK right?). So maybe now the Ducati finally got their hands on of who's (almost everybody) are calling the GOAT, their making it sure he does gets what he wants disregarding their past data's whatsoever. (Rossi did start out or almost immediately replaced Stoners Gp10 with a different version right?). I really think the Ducati had put all their hope on Vale and his super friends alone. That cost them bigtime. I really feel for the engineers (pepriozi? how the hell you do you spell his name again?) He somehow gets the blame.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Like when he rode around the problem of the 2010 forks, by refitting the 09? forks? ....... and like when they changed the riding position dramatically for Aragon 2010, after which he won a few rounds.
Doesn't sound a lot like riding around a problem to me ........ sounds more like fixing the problem "in house" as Ducati could not.
Honda wanted Stoner, not Rossi ........ why? because Stoner gets closer to the limit than any other rider out there .......... thats the best possible "development rider" you could possibly get, thats why when Stoner gets on a bike he is fast and efficient at changing the bike to get it to the front.
Is that the evidence of Stoner 23 wins to Rossi ........ ? ........ 0 on the Duc.?
thats look at these wins and when they happened berry.
07 on a new bike with no stoner input. 10 wins
08 6 wins
09 4 wins
10 3 wins
2011 on a new bike with no stoner input 10 wins
The numbers dont lie
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
thats look at these wins and when they happened berry.
07 on a new bike with no stoner input. 10 wins
08 6 wins
09 4 wins
10 3 wins
2011 on a new bike with no stoner input 10 wins
The numbers dont lie
No but these bits are fabrication. Stoner notoriously dramatically changed the setup of the Ducati on his first ride.
And you forgot to add .....
2011 on a new bike with no Rossi input 0 wins ........ so who is the better developer?
