And tyres i believe. Nothing new as you say. I remember Carlos Checa paying his team LCR to ride motogp.
And tyres i believe. Nothing new as you say. I remember Carlos Checa paying his team LCR to ride motogp.
Is Cal whinging?
What has Cal done in the sport that makes him feel that he is deserving of a factory ride (as opposed to his ambition to have a factory ride)?
IMO, to date Cal has shown some promise and I for one enjoy the approach he takes of speaking his mind as well as the sometimes 'brutal' manner in which I feel he rides, he gives his all at all times which is, for me what it is about. But his results have not been that 'good' by comparison to many others and he is on one of the better bikes in the paddock (based on comparable machinery performance), but deserving of a gifted factory ride I am not sure.
I do believe in paying what one is worth and with that in mind IMO he is not deserving of the 'larger' salaries on offer, but I also do not think he wants this, but just wants fairness which I totally agree with. To me, MotoGP salaries should be higher than those of competing series if it is to be or claim to be the pinnacle of the sport, it must pay riders appropriately if they are to race these prototypes (and yes, that does mean prototype riders only)
The thing that I await with bated breath is that a vast number of people in forums worldwide have been critical of Ezpeleta for 'manipulation' of rider placements etc (ie. his Rossi comments) and now we have Cal approaching Ezpeleta and asking for some level of preference or assistance to get him on a competitive machinery. Will we be as critical if he assists Cal?
Personally if Cal want to earn a living that can enable him to live well in the future than he has to chase the money which with his pedigree may well be in WSBK (as others have claimed at times, the money there is quite good) but he is in no position to hold MotoGP to ransom (figure of speech) anyway
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What has Cal done in the sport that makes him feel that he is deserving of a factory ride (as opposed to his ambition to have a factory ride)?
IMO, to date Cal has shown some promise and I for one enjoy the approach he takes of speaking his mind as well as the sometimes 'brutal' manner in which I feel he rides, he gives his all at all times which is, for me what it is about. But his results have not been that 'good' by comparison to many others and he is on one of the better bikes in the paddock (based on comparable machinery performance), but deserving of a gifted factory ride I am not sure.
I do believe in paying what one is worth and with that in mind IMO he is not deserving of the 'larger' salaries on offer, but I also do not think he wants this, but just wants fairness which I totally agree with. To me, MotoGP salaries should be higher than those of competing series if it is to be or claim to be the pinnacle of the sport, it must pay riders appropriately if they are to race these prototypes (and yes, that does mean prototype riders only)
The thing that I await with bated breath is that a vast number of people in forums worldwide have been critical of Ezpeleta for 'manipulation' of rider placements etc (ie. his Rossi comments) and now we have Cal approaching Ezpeleta and asking for some level of preference or assistance to get him on a competitive machinery. Will we be as critical if he assists Cal?
Personally if Cal want to earn a living that can enable him to live well in the future than he has to chase the money which with his pedigree may well be in WSBK (as others have claimed at times, the money there is quite good) but he is in no position to hold MotoGP to ransom (figure of speech) anyway
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I dont think Cal is demanding a factory ride Gaz. He is just saying he wants a bike where he at least stands a chance of winning on. He also wants to be paid for his efforts.
Rog, (all IMO of course) he is on a bike that is as close to capable of winning as he will get (given those with whom he is competing for competitive rides).
IMO, he is not the equal of Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Rossi (ruling Stoner out as the discussion really is for 2013 and onwards), with Marquez being the unknown factor although I suspect he will produce similar results to Lorenzo and Pedrosa in his first year, a win or two but some gravel trips.
The shame with the sport (and something that I and others have alluded to many times) is that at this level the costs are exorbitant in all aspects, and sadly rider costs play a part as the teams know that many riders will ride in MGP for the prestige.
Until such time as riders refuse to put their bodies on the line for the pittances being offered we will continue to see the elite (JL, DP, VR) earn the vast majority on percentage of the rider salary pool whilst those remaining are like seagulls, left to fight over the scraps. Personally I do not see this changing unless MGP starts implementing a spending cap on specific areas of bike development and/or introduces a salary cap scheme, as there will always be riders prepared to undercut another for the opportunity (and I will use Anthony West here who would ride for nothing to be back in MGP).
To me, if the money is in WSBK then chase it, as what we think is a sport has been a business for a long time now and these riders must look at it as an opportunity to earn money. These riders generally have a short time in front of the camera to earn, and as such to me if they can earn more by riding in a 'lesser' series than good luck to them, they earn it the hard way.
If you felt your salary was not representative of the skill set you bring to the table, that you as an indivdual were being massively undervalued by your employer, I think most people would walk away from that job. I think Cal is absolutely right to want to be paid what he is worth. The irony of it all is that, a few years ago he'd be a shoe in for a factory ride at Suzuki or Kawasaki. Even the satellite Hondas were fast enough to win.
If Cal is saying this, being on a Tech 3 M1, what about the guys on the CRT's of the satelite Duc's.
Wonder how much some of these guys are getting paid to ride around pigs, and bust their ..... to be 2 sec a lap slower.
Wonder how much some of these guys are getting paid to ride around pigs, and bust their ..... to be 2 sec a lap slower.
No team is gonna invest a huge amount of money in a rider unless they think he's worth it. This disparity in salaries exist in all sports, American football is a great example, the league minimum salary is $375,000 and the top man signed a 30 million a year guaranteed contract and he'll probably be able to pull in 10-20 million extra a year in endorsements.
What one is worth, and what one believes they may be worth are two completely different things within a job environment, and of course a sport environment.
Generally, one is worth what one is willing to pay for those services and in MGP it would seem that Cal may have a feeling that he is worth more than people are prepared (prepared including their capability) to pay, all within the sport in which he is competing of course.
If WSBK offers a greater financial reward for equal or less effort than he should take the opportunity and stop being forced to accept a lesser salary. Hell, I know that if I got offered more to do the same job, and where the general conditions were good or better, hell I would change employers and I do menial work.
Nuts, I bet many of them are the ones doing the paying which I find disgraceful.
CE has said he gets more to ride his CRT than he would get to ride in WSBK, after him I wouldn't be surprised if RDP is the only other CRT rider making decent money.
lol i like the point someone made about if he's saying this on a tech3 bike, what about the guys on the rides that dont have a chance..
sorry cal, but you've been beaten by your teammate week in and week out, you're not going to get a better ride than him unless maybe you took less money..
i also agree though that motogp should pay the best, dont really get how it doesnt.. but if i were cal (and i was unhappy with my position) hell yes i'd go back to wsbk where i had a chance of winning.. i've always asked the question of people, would you rather be at the pinnacle of the sport with little or no chance of winning, or a lesser class but be at the front or thereabout every weekend..
it really is a tough question, if i thought i had the chance of being competitive in the near future at the top, i'd stay there.. if not.. i'd go down to the class that suited me better.. kind of the same predicament for spies i think.. on his day, he can be the best, so personally i'd stay.. but it looks like he's been relegated to a sat bike.. so yep.. i'd leave.. AMA.. maybe.. josh hayes needs a good reality check, but WSBK would be so much more exciting..
sorry cal, but you've been beaten by your teammate week in and week out, you're not going to get a better ride than him unless maybe you took less money..
i also agree though that motogp should pay the best, dont really get how it doesnt.. but if i were cal (and i was unhappy with my position) hell yes i'd go back to wsbk where i had a chance of winning.. i've always asked the question of people, would you rather be at the pinnacle of the sport with little or no chance of winning, or a lesser class but be at the front or thereabout every weekend..
it really is a tough question, if i thought i had the chance of being competitive in the near future at the top, i'd stay there.. if not.. i'd go down to the class that suited me better.. kind of the same predicament for spies i think.. on his day, he can be the best, so personally i'd stay.. but it looks like he's been relegated to a sat bike.. so yep.. i'd leave.. AMA.. maybe.. josh hayes needs a good reality check, but WSBK would be so much more exciting..
There are a lot of riders who are being limited by their situation...meaning that there are just not enough competitive rides in GP for those that could benefit from it. Being on anything other than a factory ride is tantamount to punishment...where the odds of ever winning a race are astronomically unlikely. You are in the show but never really have a chance. It is a shame.
IIRC Crutchlow is on around €125,000, plus bonuses.
Significantly more than 90% of the Moto2 paddock and about 85% of British taxpayers.
His best results in two years have been a string of fourth places. Pretty impressive stuff, but no doubt, to me at least, mainly because of the quality of the ride. Would RdP be better on the Tech3? How about Hayden or Espargaro?
How would Crutchlow do on a satellite Ducati or LCR Honda? The M1 is the class of the field, along with the HRC factory bikes.
The riders earning '40 times' his salary are an elite group - Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa. His team-mate doesn't earn €500k in salary, but may make a fair whack in sponsorship.
What Crutchlow needs to do is to concentrate on HIS riding and stop comparing his package with other, more successful, more astute riders. They have the salary they have because they have delivered results. They have smart managers and good presence for sponsors.
Being a gobby, hard-man Brit might get you cheered at Silverstone, but doesn't, in my mind at least, make you eminently marketable or likeable.
Significantly more than 90% of the Moto2 paddock and about 85% of British taxpayers.
His best results in two years have been a string of fourth places. Pretty impressive stuff, but no doubt, to me at least, mainly because of the quality of the ride. Would RdP be better on the Tech3? How about Hayden or Espargaro?
How would Crutchlow do on a satellite Ducati or LCR Honda? The M1 is the class of the field, along with the HRC factory bikes.
The riders earning '40 times' his salary are an elite group - Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa. His team-mate doesn't earn €500k in salary, but may make a fair whack in sponsorship.
What Crutchlow needs to do is to concentrate on HIS riding and stop comparing his package with other, more successful, more astute riders. They have the salary they have because they have delivered results. They have smart managers and good presence for sponsors.
Being a gobby, hard-man Brit might get you cheered at Silverstone, but doesn't, in my mind at least, make you eminently marketable or likeable.
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What Haslam thinks about a switch to Motogp CRT:
"I've two or three MotoGP options, mainly CRT, but in all honesty, I've been to GP. I know you need a full factory bike, you need the full package, and with a lot of teams struggling financially and CRT not knowing where it is, it's not a big priority or interest for me."
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120822haslamish.htm
"I've two or three MotoGP options, mainly CRT, but in all honesty, I've been to GP. I know you need a full factory bike, you need the full package, and with a lot of teams struggling financially and CRT not knowing where it is, it's not a big priority or interest for me."
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120822haslamish.htm
100% agree, Fogarty didnt get the breaks in gp for the same reason, K R wanted him but not his attitude,good post.
There seems to be quite a lot of people on this thread saying Cal doesnt deserve a better ride going on his results against Dovi and while i agree you are only as good as your last race and are judged by it how on earth is Rossi eligable for the factory ride using this formula?this just goes to show the level of hypocrocy in moto .... pig.Stoner and Spies going cos of the ........ and now Cal what a croc of .... moto gp has become.
In My Opinion the only reason is the ...... up economy of Europe and it shows it's effects in Motogp like this:
1) The cost of a Motogp prototype is much more than a tuned race virsion of a street bike in WSBK. The same goes to the whole costs of Motogp season and WSBK season.
2) Sponsors are the guys who bring money to the sports. But when the whole system is not doing well their own income doesn't have that power to support the sport.
3) I agree with the prestige part mentioned above that keeps the guys attached to the series.
4) In this awful situation even the big guys are not getting the salary they got in the previous seasons. I don't know about Lorenzo but bothe Pedrosa and Rossi are getting huge pay cuts.
Buttom Point: The new way Motogp is heading to may sound ........, unfair, and not enjoyable for the fans and riders like crutchlow but the situation right now is a crisis management situation. So the only thing that can fix it is time. I am absoulotely sure that if the whole economy in Europe gets better the investments, sponsorings and paying riders salaries will get better.
1) The cost of a Motogp prototype is much more than a tuned race virsion of a street bike in WSBK. The same goes to the whole costs of Motogp season and WSBK season.
2) Sponsors are the guys who bring money to the sports. But when the whole system is not doing well their own income doesn't have that power to support the sport.
3) I agree with the prestige part mentioned above that keeps the guys attached to the series.
4) In this awful situation even the big guys are not getting the salary they got in the previous seasons. I don't know about Lorenzo but bothe Pedrosa and Rossi are getting huge pay cuts.
Buttom Point: The new way Motogp is heading to may sound ........, unfair, and not enjoyable for the fans and riders like crutchlow but the situation right now is a crisis management situation. So the only thing that can fix it is time. I am absoulotely sure that if the whole economy in Europe gets better the investments, sponsorings and paying riders salaries will get better.
The days when a WSBK bike was a tuned street bike are long gone.
The costs of running a top WSBK team aren't as much as running, say, HRC or Yamaha Racing, but a lot of the development costs are hidden in general factory R&D and machining, where the GP bikes budgets are one cost centre.
There is little on a WSBK bike that is 'stock' - think of it more as a silhouette class... one that looks externally a lot like the bikes you can buy for the street.
In reality, there is little on a WSBK that is the same as a stock bike - swingarm, suspension, exhaust, wheels, brakes, engine internals, cooling, electronics, fuel delivery, fuel tank, fairing, seating, controls, handlebars and footpegs. As well as that the materials are significantly different with carbon in place of plastics, titanium in place of aluminium alloy on a production bike, except the sub-frame - it has to be the same material as stock, or heavier and no carbon/kevlar in the swingarm.
What stays the same? Air box, fuel pump, the number and placement of exhausts, chassis - although it can be strengthened with gussets and tubes, dimensions and position of bearings in steering head, engine mounts, swingarm, suspension, "Fairing, mudguards and body work must conform in principle to the homologated shape as originally produced by the manufacturer. "
If you are interested, the following details the differences between a WSBK bike and a stock bike - over 30 pages of technical regs/allowable mods.
http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/6510004_Anglais.pdf
Tyres are allocated the same for every factory rider, every satellite rider according to the fee the teams pay IRTA to race. The only difference is the wild-card entries who pay a pro-rata fee for the races they enter and for teams wanting to do testing prior to entering the competition.
Are you sure about Checa? Not thinking of Frankie Chili are you?
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to compete at the highest levels. Tech3 just can't afford big salaries - they couldn't even afford the top Brembo's until some kind benefactor stepped in and paid for them.
If Crutchlow isn't getting what he thinks he's worth, I am sure there are some damned fast kids in Moto2 that would happily take €150,000 a year to race for such an illustrious outfit.
As to the danger, I have a friend who does 20-day 'wet' dives working laying oil pipes. That job is hellishly dangerous and paid well, but he is only getting a similar amount to Dovizioso.
A lot more deep divers die than MotoGP riders and the career duration is similar.
It's all relative.
