Could it happen in MotoGP?

So...back on topic. Could a title like Leicester City ever happen in MotoGP?

My answer : no.

(Unless we could argue it already happened in 2007. But I think JP makes a good argument it doesn't quite qualify. Though I think it was the most extraordinary title I can think of.)


Motokitty recently posted an interview by Loris Baz. Besides him having outstanding umbrella girls, and conceding that he is very talented as a rider, it made me a bit sad when he said, "My goal is to be world champion." Because frankly there is no chance that will ever happen. Why? Because MotoGP is prejudice of larger riders and discriminate against rider's age (except Rossi apparently). It makes me sad that a man like Loris Baz who deserves a shot as much as anyone who dedicates his life and talent will never get a fair shake. Think of Pol Espargaro, signed by Yamaha ahead of Bradley Smith and at the time, the Moto2 points leader Scott Redding. Some guys are just going to be the favored commodity. If you listened to Herve Poncharal, he was so dismissive of Wsbk riders, like they didn’t count. This from a man who has thee most important satellite team, and supposed path to the factory ride. We already know GP is not a meritocracy. Power politics, sponsorship dollars, and what Dorna wants to promote in terms of TV value often influence who goes where.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

Jumkie said:

So...back on topic. Could a title like Leicester City ever happen in MotoGP?

My answer : no.

(Unless we could argue it already happened in 2007. But I think JP makes a good argument it doesn't quite qualify. Though I think it was the most extraordinary title I can think of.)


Motokitty recently posted an interview by Loris Baz. Besides him having outstanding umbrella girls, and conceding that he is very talented as a rider, it made me a bit sad when he said, "My goal is to be world champion." Because frankly there is no chance that will ever happen. Why? Because MotoGP is prejudice of larger riders and discriminate against rider's age (except Rossi apparently). It makes me sad that a man like Loris Baz who deserves a shot as much as anyone who dedicates his life and talent will never get a fair shake. Think of Pol Espargaro, signed by Yamaha ahead of Bradley Smith and at the time, the Moto2 points leader Scott Redding. Some guys are just going to be the favored commodity. If you listened to Herve Poncharal, he was so dismissive of Wsbk riders, like they didn’t count. This from a man who has thee most important satellite team, and supposed path to the factory ride. We already know GP is not a meritocracy. Power politics, sponsorship dollars, and what Dorna wants to promote in terms of TV value often influence who goes where.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

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Ah well...sod racing just buy into the hype and unquestionably obediently follow the herd. Here you go, apparently we should subscribe .... like this instead -



No use fighting it, this time comps, expect one of these in the post for Christmas this year...

Arrabbiata1 said:

Ah well...sod racing just buy into the hype and unquestionably obediently follow the herd. Here you go, apparently we should subscribe .... like this instead -



No use fighting it, this time comps, expect one of these in the post for Christmas this year...

View attachment 12049

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That is soooo cruel Arrabb :giggle:

baturro said:

So Jum, why no comment on how the Europa League (Europe's second tier international league) is also dominated by La Liga teams? You know, the teams in La Liga other than Madrid and Barcelona that you didn't think much of, but still win? Sevilla being the only team that has successfully defended the Europa Cup?

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Uh? You don't know? You should know the answer buddy, frankly I didn't think it merited addressing. I also ignored the correlation that Cuco made in terms of national team to the domestic league, when he said England had failed to impress in international tournaments; as if the EPL is comprised of Englishman. I suspect you don't know because you waste your valuable time watching Barcelona & Real Madrid (because god knows you're not wasting your time watching Rayo v Levante) mi amigo. Jaja!

Simply answer homie, because the English teams don't want to waste their time and risk their world class players in a relatively meaningless, resource sapping, financially unrewarding, no prestige and uninspiring tournament.

The Spanish team's plight is sadly a product of the Spanish culture's cast system which admires and institutionalizes the mentality of aristocrat verses peasant. Something that the people have been manipulated to accept because of various power institutions that have historically worked together against the masses. Great if you're part of the high born, but if you're not your existence is to look for scraps. It's the mentality, with the help of the Catholic Farce that Spain exported to the "new" world. The reasons the meager Spanish clubs compete in this 2nd tier tournament is to boister "accomplishments" (however hollow) because they have no chance at prestige or financial reward in their domestic "league" which is dominated by two aristocratic super teams. The Spanish "league" is a reflection of the Spanish culture.

When you have two teams (BarcaMadrid) each getting 140M contrasted to bottom table's 18M, you would be looking for crumbs and scraps of income and hallow prestige too.

Hermano, the English Premier League offers far greater rewards for teams to contest positions in their own league rather than the Europa tournament. I thought this was obvious to those who follow the sport. Staying in the English premiership, with its bonus and distribution structure (the richest in the world) is of greater value. Had you not paid attention to EPL teams fielding B teams at this tournament? Why? Because managers and the front office know a 6th 7th,10th 18th etc. position in the premiership makes more business sense. You should be familiar with this, as I'm sure you've noticed top players suddenly being unavailable to compete with their national sides during a hotly contested domestic run. The premiership is the priority, even domestic cups are not contested with A teams sometimes if the club is on the cusp in the league standings.

I completely agree with you Jum, the Spanish Liga is Extremely top heavy. No doubt about it. Barca and Madrid win La Liga 99% of the time. But when the "second tier" teams such as Valencia, Sevilla, Bilbao or Villareal play in international competition such as Europa league they also dominate agains their European counterparts, the teams that place 3rd down in their respective leagues.

This being true is the reason that Cuco and myself will argue that IF Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao were in the EPL, they would do fairly well. Probably be close to the top. That is all the argument we are bringing to the table.

I agree that 95% of the EPL matches are more 50/50 when it comes to the possible winner. Especially when competing with the "Giants," but that doesn't necessarily mean that the league has a higher level of teams, just a more equal level of teams.

Again, I agree that Madrid and Barsa are light years in front of most Spanish clubs and because of this La Liga is nearly decided on the first day of competition. But this does not mean that the rest of the teams are inferior to many of the EPS, Bundesliga, or Serie A. On the contrary, I think that most would fair quite well if they were in a different league.

And when it comes to what team I waist my time watching, it's first Real Zaragoza! Unfortunately recently relegated to the second division. But many Arsenal supporters will know us as the team that beat Arsenal with an overtime midfield goal by Nayim on Seaman. Amazing goal. Look for it.

Second is Sporting Gijon. Another historic club that has been down on it's economic luck...

Just watched the Arsenal v Real Zaragoza. 95' What a goal, caught Arsenal's keeper with his shorts down.

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

baturro said:

I completely agree with you Jum, the Spanish Liga is Extremely top heavy. No doubt about it. Barca and Madrid win La Liga 99% of the time. But when the "second tier" teams such as Valencia, Sevilla, Bilbao or Villareal play in international competition such as Europa league they also dominate agains their European counterparts, the teams that place 3rd down in their respective leagues.

This being true is the reason that Cuco and myself will argue that IF Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao were in the EPL, they would do fairly well. Probably be close to the top. That is all the argument we are bringing to the table.

I agree that 95% of the EPL matches are more 50/50 when it comes to the possible winner. Especially when competing with the "Giants," but that doesn't necessarily mean that the league has a higher level of teams, just a more equal level of teams.

Again, I agree that Madrid and Barsa are light years in front of most Spanish clubs and because of this La Liga is nearly decided on the first day of competition. But this does not mean that the rest of the teams are inferior to many of the EPS, Bundesliga, or Serie A. On the contrary, I think that most would fair quite well if they were in a different league.

And when it comes to what team I waist my time watching, it's first Real Zaragoza! Unfortunately recently relegated to the second division. But many Arsenal supporters will know us as the team that beat Arsenal with an overtime midfield goal by Nayim on Seaman. Amazing goal. Look for it.

Second is Sporting Gijon. Another historic club that has been down on it's economic luck...

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Osasuna and Deportivo de la Coruña in my case. Couldn't agree more with you. We are not arguing that the EPL is a better product only that it isn't necessarily where the best football is practiced at the moment based, on the most possible direct manner, on comparing the two when they participate in the same competition. I know you think that the EPL teams don't give a .... about those tournaments but then why this obsession about ending up at least in the top four or six? For the $$ and prestige. And if you don't think that they take it seriously playing with their A team during the tournaments to make extra money from tickets, merchandise and money for participating and for every point scored I don't know what to say. Not to mention that players of high caliber will choose a team that plays regularly or once in while in an European tournament over a team languishing around 10th any time of the day and they will give it all if the get to play on that stage.

Bringing it back for a quick revisit.

Sevilla (La Liga) just beat Liverpool (EPL) for the Europa League final in an amazing comeback. Sevilla was down 1-0 at the half and came back to win 1-3.

Next week 2 Spanish teams in the Champions League final.


And if European competition didn't mean much to the EPL teams, why are Man U fans so disapointed they didn't place 4th instead of 5th in the league? Because 5th puts them in Europa League competition instead of Champions League. With all the Prestige and $$ that comes with it.

Flopp.

(As to your questions, the answers are in my posts above, feel free to re-read).

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

baturro said:

Bringing it back for a quick revisit.

Sevilla (La Liga) just beat Liverpool (EPL) for the Europa League final in an amazing comeback. Sevilla was down 1-0 at the half and came back to win 1-3.

Next week 2 Spanish teams in the Champions League final.


And if European competition didn't mean much to the EPL teams, why are Man U fans so disapointed they didn't place 4th instead of 5th in the league? Because 5th puts them in Europa League competition instead of Champions League. With all the Prestige and $$ that comes with it.

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Yes!!!!!!!! Bindippers lose .

I'm not asking questions Jum.

Just providing proof for you that La Liga has better teams in it than other leagues from top to bottom. And again, I agree with you that it is extremely top heavy with Real Madrid and Barcelona, but when you have a second tier team, Sevilla, being in 5 of the last 11 finals and winning the last three on the trot, really proves that there is a lot of talent in La Liga even if it is not the most competitive league.


DB, what are Bindippers?

baturro said:

I'm not asking questions Jum.

Just providing proof for you that La Liga has better teams in it than other leagues from top to bottom. And again, I agree with you that it is extremely top heavy with Real Madrid and Barcelona, but when you have a second tier team, Sevilla, being in 5 of the last 11 finals and winning the last three on the trot, really proves that there is a lot of talent in La Liga even if it is not the most competitive league.


DB, what are Bindippers?

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It "proves" nothing other than support for my arguments.

I told you, all that team does is prepare for the tournament. God knows they'll never achieve .... in their league. So they look elsewhere for hallow glory.

They look for glory in the same tournament Liverpool was looking for glory.

Sorry Jum, you may have an opinion, but without living the sport it's holds not much water. Your sounding like TPS and his "I know all about GP after 2 years watching" opinions. All teams in Europe want to play in international competitions and win them.


Liverpool wanted nothing more than winning the game today. And Man U will be very disapointed if they don't win. Especially since this is a "second" tier league and it should be a cake walk for such a mighty team from such a mighty league. No team takes Euroean competition lightly.

baturro said:

They look for glory in the same tournament Liverpool was looking for glory.

Sorry Jum, you may have an opinion, but without living the sport it's holds not much water. Your sounding like TPS and his "I know all about GP after 2 years watching" opinions. All teams in Europe want to play in international competitions and win them.


Liverpool wanted nothing more than winning the game today. And Man U will be very disapointed if they don't win. Especially since this is a "second" tier league and it should be a cake walk for such a mighty team from such a mighty league. No team takes Euroean competition lightly.

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Haha, clutching at straws. Bro you sound a bit desperate, comparing me to tsp. EPL teams regularly field B teams to get out of this meaningless tournament. It's happening with increasing regularity. Today Liverpool did want to win, but they've been beat up by the rigorous league UNLIKE the Spanish who play a bunch of scrubs, sleepwalking through their ........ league, only to stay healthy and fresh as daisies to compete in the only games they find meaning in all year! Finishing 7th in La Liga is nowhere near as lucrative as finishing 7th in the EPL. Hence why these teams hibernate all season then without as much as a scratch compete in this 2nd tier tournament. Meanwhile the EPL teams are dealing with a war ever week.

I take it you've read my posts, what's fascinating is that you dismiss all the truths and stick to the assumption that this 2nd tier tournament means something. Yet you concede that having RM or Barca in the Champs League only means they are super teams designed for the tournament. Atletico had to throw their game against Levante to stay healthy for the CL final, why? Because beating Levante was meaningless! Even if they beat them, risking injury, they still wouldn't have won the league. Why? Oh yeah because level on points means .... when Barca score over a 100 goals to Atletico's 60. So there was no chance to win the league. But you know this reality, if you don't then it's clear why you think Sevilla "proved" something in your eyes.

It's similar .... for the Eupora League. Those midtable Spanish teams will never have a chance to make any revenue, so they possum all year. The English teams wish they had such an easy schedule. It's not really a coincidence Sevilla puts all their eggs in the 2nd tier basket, they got absolutely no chance of doing anything else, none.

Face it dude, La Liga is a joke. It's a 2 horse "league" with 1 team that plays with determination (Atletico). The other teams throw in the towel every year, mill around the whole season and stay fresh fir this 2nd tier tournament so that people like you and Coco can be fooled into thinking the Spanish league is worth watching. But you're only fooling yourself. Nobody tunes in to watch teams 4-20. Nobody, because they're all .... in "league" play.

It's worse than I thought. Baturro, you fail to understand the plight of teams in La Liga, and it's why you grossly misunderstand why these .... Spanish teams must fight so desperately for scraps in 2nd tier tournaments. This tournament is in essence their season!

This 2nd tier tournament is the only hope for midtable Spanish teams to make any revenue, as meager as the payouts are for Europa League. The winner of the final takes home 5 mil. Over the tournament, it can mean as much as 9 mil. Sound like a lot? Not to EPL teams. But to Spanish teams it's tantamount to finding the Hope Diamond!

Do you know the difference between 8th place and 7th in the EPL? 13 mil. Hahaha, one position is worth far more than the final and all the payouts throughout the 2nd tier tournament. No wonder teams like Slavevilla scrap tooth and nail to make a few extra bucks. Why? Because they don't get .... for 7th in the Spanish " league ". Read this:

2015 Spanish "league" revenues model, article by Forbes:

"The Spain model which came into being for the 1997/98 season, runs counter to the centralized selling model embraced by the Premier League, Serie A in Italy, the Bundesliga of Germany, Ligue Un in France and almost every successful sports league in the world."

Haha, holy ...., was I spot on about the Spanish culture or what? Aristocrats vs. Peasants!

You should stop reading, it doesn't get any better. Not that you'll apply thus plight to the supposed standard of "proof" based on this 2nd tier tournament, which btw reflects nicely to the Champions League, given the "aristocratic" nature of the two "top heavy" teams that appear in the tournament...from Spain.

"Not only did it fail to maximize the inherent value of the league rights (total TV rights for 2015/16 are no more than $900M) it also reinforced the gulf between the two powerhouses and the rest of the league.

For the 2014/15 season Barcelona pocketed an estimated $173M from worldwide TV rights while low team Eibar had to make do with $15M – a factor of 11.5 to 1.


Hahaha, holy ..... Do you mean to tell me just one position higher in the EPL is worth more than the entire revenue for a season a .... Spanish team will get all year? Now are you starting to understand why these teams sleepwalk all season? 5-20th basically means you'll get ..... At least a couple of extra bucks by playing like your life depends on it (often it really does mean staying up) seems worth it. It's an absolute windfall to make 5 million in a 2nd tier tournament. No wonder the EPL don't give a .... about Europa. You wouldn't either if you passed 3rd grade math, why would you risk making 2-5 million while losing 90+ million? Hahaha Jesus man! You can stop reading now, it's gonna sting...


"Compare these numbers to last season’s English Premier League that had a top to bottom ratio of 1.5 to 1 with Premier League winners Chelsea receiving $150M while last place QPR received $98M.


So let me get this straight, Real Madrid and Barcelona each get 190 million (2016). Wilst the lower teams get 18-48million. Meanwhile, a 7th position in the EPL means 140+. You think EPL teams give two ..... about making 5 million as the winner of a 2nd tier tournament if doing so means a potential loss of 3 times that amount by risking dropping down a single position? Fuzzy math perhaps?


Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

baturro said:

I'm not asking questions Jum.

Just providing proof for you that La Liga has better teams in it than other leagues from top to bottom. And again, I agree with you that it is extremely top heavy with Real Madrid and Barcelona, but when you have a second tier team, Sevilla, being in 5 of the last 11 finals and winning the last three on the trot, really proves that there is a lot of talent in La Liga even if it is not the most competitive league.


DB, what are Bindippers?

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Bindipper= skip rat

baturro said:

I'm not asking questions Jum.

Just providing proof for you that La Liga has better teams in it than other leagues from top to bottom. And again, I agree with you that it is extremely top heavy with Real Madrid and Barcelona, but when you have a second tier team, Sevilla, being in 5 of the last 11 finals and winning the last three on the trot, really proves that there is a lot of talent in La Liga even if it is not the most competitive league.


DB, what are Bindippers?

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A derogatory term to describe Liverpool fans by Manchester United fans who believe football only started in 1992.

baturro said:

I'm not asking questions Jum.

Just providing proof for you that La Liga has better teams in it than other leagues from top to bottom. And again, I agree with you that it is extremely top heavy with Real Madrid and Barcelona, but when you have a second tier team, Sevilla, being in 5 of the last 11 finals and winning the last three on the trot, really proves that there is a lot of talent in La Liga even if it is not the most competitive league.


DB, what are Bindippers?

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A pejorative term for scousers.

Sevilla are a strange example...completely geared up for this competition which they appear to have made their own, but you are forgetting, they got routinely dismantled by Man City in the group stages of the CL last year. And there's the point. It strikes me that in an uncompetitive league, these teams have the latitude and luxury to set up for European competition and this is Sevilla's tournament of choice. Sevilla have appalling recent league form - particularly away from home. Last night they were there for the taking and in the second half Liverpool had no response.

The EPL is a war of attrition and it takes its toll. English teams are fighting on too many fronts. The success of Leicester was in part due to the fact that they focussed solely on the league. Next year, this attention will be directed at Europe and the style of football that they will bring is everything that Klopp wants to engender at Liverpool and everything that they should have been last night. Very much uncharted territory for us. We'll see. Klopp has inherited this squad and is asking them to play in a way and with a high pressing intensity that is alien to them. They are in a transitional phase. Give him a pre season and a summer clear out and I expect a serious assault on the Premier League culminating in European qualification then further consolidation through recruitment. I have no doubt that he will follow in the steps of Paisley, Shankley, Fagan, Houllier and Benitez and restore European glory to Anfield.

In Monchi, (the man that brought Dani Alves into Spanish football), Sevilla have a gifted technical director and perhaps the best scout on the planet. He has built a brilliant recruitment team and despite being a sell on club, an ethos of continual progression. But this philosophy is very much oriented towards European competition - success in Europa - like Liverpool this season, their recent domestic endeavours are utterly underwhelming.

Good point. A german people never do too well fighting too many fronts

All ,possibly fueled by nationalism, ........ aside tho for a moment:

Who are the top 5 teams in the world?
Which are the top 3 leagues?
Who are the top national teams?
Does that have anything to do with 'best'?
Cause .... me,i had a blast during all three halftimes at a Westham game. Surely dont mean .... though when it comes to the quality of the game.
If la liga is f1 then epl is rally cross.


Barturro! Return of the beer shlong. Good to see u back and talk some sense. Love the jps diss.
He brings out the .... you in me too <3