Championship & Penalty points system.

bluegreen · Oct 23, 2013

Haven't given this a ton of thought as I just woke up and a touch hungover but in the NHL if you get suspended you also get fined. The scale is relative to salary so the bigger your contract the more you pay. This way if you incurr a couple of points in the last race of the season there would still be a somewhat meaningful penalty.

This would be in additition to the current system. Maybe each point would be worth 5% of your salary, if you get a 1 race ban 1/18th of your salary docked on top of the 5% per point?

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

I love PS.

RSun makes good point. I thought of it when I suggested to reduce points, but as he says RD might be more reluctant to issue. But as Chops says, it would mean they might not issue for minor offense. I think this dilemma does highlight tbe difficulty. But as RSun mentioned regarding Rivas, RD is circumvented their own system. The thing is mist incidents are not so clear, like when Baustista torpedoed Lorenzo vs when Baustista torpedoed Rossi vs when Baustista 'almost' torpedoed Rossi. Are near misses also something RD should look at? I say yes if it can be counted as a ongoing dangerous habit. Which I think was the point the system attempts to address. Making things more difficult is that the popularity of a rider affects the sanction, lets not pretend it doesn't. Especially given, as I understand it, Dorna having a say in the decision.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

bluegreen

3651721382544435

Haven't given this a ton of thought as I just woke up and a touch hungover but in the NHL if you get suspended you also get fined. The scale is relative to salary so the bigger your contract the more you pay. This way if you incurr a couple of points in the last race of the season there would still be a somewhat meaningful penalty.

This would be in additition to the current system. Maybe each point would be worth 5% of your salary, if you get a 1 race ban 1/18th of your salary docked on top of the 5% per point?

Hit them where it hurt's, in the wallet. Not a bad idea. I do believe as suggested by a poster here (Gaz i think) there should be an appeal process. This even more important if a fine % on rider wages were bought in.

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

bluegreen

3651721382544435

Haven't given this a ton of thought as I just woke up and a touch hungover but in the NHL if you get suspended you also get fined. The scale is relative to salary so the bigger your contract the more you pay. This way if you incurr a couple of points in the last race of the season there would still be a somewhat meaningful penalty.

This would be in additition to the current system. Maybe each point would be worth 5% of your salary, if you get a 1 race ban 1/18th of your salary docked on top of the 5% per point?

Good morning...I hope. Do tell, was the hangover worth it, or regrettable? Ha!

Interesting. However some riders pay to ride others dont get "paid" by their employer. For example, according to commentary, Bradl is not paid but makes his money from sponsors.

bluegreen · Oct 23, 2013

chopperman

3651741382544775

Hit them where it hurt's, in the wallet. Not a bad idea. I do believe as suggested by a poster here (Gaz i think) there should be an appeal process. This even more important if a fine % on rider wages were bought in.

Thanks. If you're an alien on a 10 million per season contract. 1/18th of your pay is $500k. Nothing to sneeze at.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

Jumkie

3651731382544631

I love PS.

RSun makes good point. I thought of it when I suggested to reduce points, but as he says RD might be more reluctant to issue. But as Chops says, it would mean they might not issue for minor offense. I think this dilemma does highlight tbe difficulty. But as RSun mentioned regarding Rivas, RD is circumvented their own system. The thing is mist incidents are not so clear, like when Baustista torpedoed Lorenzo vs when Baustista torpedoed Rossi vs when Baustista 'almost' torpedoed Rossi. Are near misses also something RD should look at? I say yes if it can be counted as a ongoing dangerous habit. Which I think was the point the system attempts to address. Making things more difficult is that the popularity of a rider affects the sanction, lets not pretend it doesn't. Especially given, as I understand it, Dorna having a say in the decision.

Firstly, i credited you and Gaz for your insightful posts earlier on in this thread. I unintentionally omitted Rsun's name. I apologise for that.

The point i would like to pick up on in your post jum is the fact Dorna have a say in race directions decision regarding issuing points. If this is indeed fact it is very wrong imo. The promoter should never have a say in rider discipline for obvious reasons.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

bluegreen

3651771382545108

Thanks. If you're an alien on a 10 million per season contract. 1/18th of your pay is $500k. Nothing to sneeze at.

I agree, but jum makes a good point in that some riders don't get paid in the conventional sense. That could make fining some riders a % very difficult.

bluegreen · Oct 23, 2013

Jumkie

3651761382544868

Good morning...I hope. Do tell, was the hangover worth it, or regrettable? Ha!

Interesting. However some riders pay to ride others dont get "paid" by their employer. For example, according to commentary, Bradl is not paid but makes his money from sponsors.

Ha! It is a good morning indeed. She was a babe.

Yeah, that's the only problem. After the top 8 paid riders things probably get messy in terms of how riders are making money and even paying for their rides. Some smart accountant must be able to figure it out. Right now I'll just go count Tylenols..

14X · Oct 23, 2013

On the K.I.S.S principle; How about just having a system where if someone does something dangerous in one race, they have to ride a factory Ducati in the next one.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

14X

3651861382549590

On the K.I.S.S principle; How about just having a system where if someone does something dangerous in one race, they have to ride a factory Ducati in the next one.

hahaha. Well the Ducati is / was the 2 seater bike, know reason it cant also serve as the punishment bike.

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

14X

3651861382549590

On the K.I.S.S principle; How about just having a system where if someone does something dangerous in one race, they have to ride a factory Ducati in the next one.

Hahaha! That is harsh man. I think people would prefer a race ban, at very least starting from the back with their own bike rather than risk life and limb on the sketchy front end of a Ducati.

Hahaha, that was good man.

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

chopperman

3651871382550259

chopperman, on 23 Oct 2013 - 10:51, said:

hahaha. Well the Ducati is / was the 2 seater bike, know reason it cant also serve as the punishment bike.

The two seater might actually have the potential to circulate faster than the GP13. Nicky and Dovi have both said the project has gone backwards.

Anyway, getting back to the OP, I think the system is decent but the people deciding the sanctions are under a bunch of various pressures where "safety" is not necessarily the firs and foremost concern. When I said Dorna has a say in the matter, I wasn't kidding. I'll try and find where I read it.

Tom · Oct 23, 2013

I think the system is good because the riders are in a position where they will suffer negative consequences if they do things they shouldn't, but the results of races and championships do not have to be constantly tampered with, which is bad for everyone. The main thing they have to do is be fair and get a decent hold on the scale of various incidents, particularly the common ones. My main fault would be that they don't carry over from season to season, because that means a rider who has nothing to lose and a clean licence towards the end of a year can take more risks knowing that any penalty points get wiped quickly, while doing something in the first race will linger all season. I think each penalty should stick for 6 or 7 races even if that goes over the winter.

14X · Oct 23, 2013

That's actually a pretty easy fix. Any penalty points remain on your license until you go a full season without picking up any more.

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2013

14X

3652091382556741

That's actually a pretty easy fix. Any penalty points remain on your license until you go a full season without picking up any more.

That is exactly what they do with driver's license. Good fix.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

Tom

3652071382556507

I think the system is good because the riders are in a position where they will suffer negative consequences if they do things they shouldn't, but the results of races and championships do not have to be constantly tampered with, which is bad for everyone. The main thing they have to do is be fair and get a decent hold on the scale of various incidents, particularly the common ones. My main fault would be that they don't carry over from season to season, because that means a rider who has nothing to lose and a clean licence towards the end of a year can take more risks knowing that any penalty points get wiped quickly, while doing something in the first race will linger all season. I think each penalty should stick for 6 or 7 races even if that goes over the winter.

Points not being carried over to the next season for the reasons you gave is a great point tom.

baturro · Oct 23, 2013

And rookies? Aren't they the most dangerous. They should start with two points from the get go just to keep them in check.

Arrabbiata1 · Oct 23, 2013

baturro

3652171382557675

And rookies? Aren't they the most dangerous. They should start with two points from the get go just to keep them in check.

How about a ruling preventing them from riding full factory machin....oh bollocks

14X · Oct 23, 2013

baturro

3652171382557675

And rookies? Aren't they the most dangerous. They should start with two points from the get go just to keep them in check.

Sure why not. Let's refer to that as the 'Rookie Rule' to avoid confusion.

chopperman · Oct 23, 2013

It's true you expect rookies to make mistakes as they learn the ropes, i think they have always refereed to this as "A rookie mistake". I suppose these mistakes are likely to be exaggerated or made more serious if such rookies are put on full factory bikes. My son is a new driver but i dont let him drive the scoob. The little knocks he has in his mums Jazz would end up serious incidents in my car lol

While i didn't want this turning into a mm thread i think this part is relevant. You would expect RD to be a little more forgiving when it comes to rookies making mistakes. Put a rookie on a full factory bike and you expect the rider to be above and beyond the average rookie so there for not deserving of the same leniency ?

Championship & Penalty points system.

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