Best riders/best bike - Suppo's view

Lebowski · Feb 7, 2011

Crashnet proving itself to be useful for something. This interview with Suppo is interesting:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/166457/1/suppo_hire_the_best_riders_get_the_best_bike.html

povol · Feb 8, 2011

Lebowski said:
Crashnet proving itself to be useful for something. This interview with Suppo is interesting:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/166457/1/suppo_hire_the_best_riders_get_the_best_bike.html

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. His is, that without Rossi to push him, Jorge became a 4th place rider, where clearly, he was securing the brass ring, before putting his stamp on a record breaking year.

The quote that really cracked me up was this

“If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion,

Hell, he won the last 2 races and fans of a certain rider, who make up around 2/3's of the Moto GP fan base, say he was a lucky champion

xx CURVE xx · Feb 8, 2011

he is a lucky champion

cliche guevara · Feb 8, 2011

breaking records and proving to be able to beat rossi in wheel to wheel battles isn't enough it seems

what i found interesting was the bit about biaggi, really sounds like he suggests that biaggi would have performed not as well as capirossi and that biaggi's mentality of either having the best bike or no chance might have back fired .

povol · Feb 8, 2011

cliché guevara said:
breaking records and proving to be able to beat rossi in wheel to wheel battles isn't enough it seems

what i found interesting was the bit about biaggi, really sounds like he suggests that biaggi would have performed not as well as capirossi and that biaggi's mentality of either having the best bike or no chance might have back fired .

Rossi does not get beat, someone else just luckily wins. Rossi has never lost a championship, his team has, but not him personally.

xx CURVE xx · Feb 8, 2011

povol said:
Rossi does not get beat, someone else just luckily wins. Rossi has never lost a championship, his team has, but not him personally.

J4rn0 · Feb 8, 2011

Suppo always struck me as a salesman (no offense meant for sales persons), and out of place in the paddock. Now according to Mr. Suppo everything in racing boils down to psychological competition and motivation.

Oh yeah, the good old salesman's training.

cliche guevara · Feb 8, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Suppo always struck me as a salesman (no offense meant for sales persons), and out of place in the paddock. Now according to Mr. Suppo everything in racing boils down to psychological competition and motivation.

Oh yeah, the good old salesman's training.

while completly agreeing with you i have to say in his defense, he like all people in motogp is gagged to a certain degree, i mean you wouldn't expect an honest statment like "yes its true the ducati was inferior to the yamaha just as our honda was" . of course he has to downplay the role of the machinery when they don't win, just as much as everybody makes a big deal out of it if you do.

Jumkie · Feb 8, 2011

I thought it was a very candid interview. Refreshing from the ........ stuff you usually get when peeps try to be too politically correct. He made some good points. I liked when he said nobody remembers the start of a season just the end.

Lebowski · Feb 8, 2011

Jumkie said:
I thought it was a very candid interview. Refreshing from the ........ stuff you usually get when peeps try to be too politically correct. He made some good points. I liked when he said nobody remembers the start of a season just the end.

Agreed. He clearly has been closer to the action than any of us. Whilst I detest the entire notion of sales and as a rule salespeople you can never discount the importance of psychology in elite sport. Any elite athlete will tell you that at the top (where everyone has freaky talent and trains their arses off) that the mental approach makes the difference.

It's also pretty clear that this underlies his support for Stoner - he thinks others would have been going "This bike can't win" but Casey repeatedly showed otherwise.

michaelm · Feb 8, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Suppo always struck me as a salesman (no offense meant for sales persons), and out of place in the paddock. Now according to Mr. Suppo everything in racing boils down to psychological competition and motivation.

Oh yeah, the good old salesman's training.

Regardless of his presumed support for casey stoner, I don't have much time for him, and in particular his forays into amateur psychiatry/psychology. Perhaps the ducati gp08 was more in need of referral for an expert opinion than marco melandri.

Jumkie · Feb 8, 2011

michaelm said:
Regardless of his presumed suppoort from casey stoner, I don't have much time for him, and in particular his forays into amateur psychiatry/psychology. Perhaps the ducati gp08 was more in need of referral for an expert opinion than marco melandri.

Why the detest of amateur psych? Isnt everybody in the paddock a psychologist?

michaelm · Feb 8, 2011

Jumkie said:
Why the detest of amateur psych? Isnt everybody in the paddock a psychologist?

The whole attitude at ducati, with marco being diagnosed as psychologically disturbed rather than there being any possibility of fault in the bike (even casey couldn't ride it in the early part of 2008 before they went back to the 2007 engine), and stoner being regarded as psychiatrically disturbed in 2009 (perhaps not by suppo) annoyed me although I had been a long-term ducati fan, and went rather beyond amateur psychology, something I freely indulge in myself now it being a long time since I was in medical school or worked in casualty . As I said at the time I regard suppo's people management skills as quite suspect, and deplored his attitude to others as well including guintoli when he achieved an admirable podium in the wet.

J4rn0 · Feb 9, 2011

Suppo's "people management skills" are very suspect indeed.

By the way, his salesman psychology ('everything depends on personal motivation') is very different from amateur psychology that can take into account many aspects...

Tom · Feb 9, 2011

I think that interview was quite good, very interesting. I see where he is coming from, and i think it's quite possible to be right. Although perhaps things aren't quite as he says, maybe Lorenzo chose Yamaha above the other teams because the perception was that it was the best bike. Rather than it being the best package only after he arrived. Like with Honda coming into this season, maybe they have't recruited a load of top riders to make their bike look the best, rather they have been able to recruit (or hold onto) a lot of top riders because the perception is that their bike is the best (or will be soon).

Good career moves from riders are defined by their ability to get themselves into the right places at the right time. Maybe Rossi will look smart for leaving Yamaha when Furusawa did, alternatively maybe Lorenzo will look smart for chosing Valentino's team and making it his. Stoner might look pretty smart for getting onboard with Honda just as they rise up again from their relatively lackluster few years, but he might not look so good if he leaves Ducati just as they get things sorted.

michaelm · Feb 9, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Suppo's "people management skills" are very suspect indeed.

By the way, his salesman psychology ('everything depends on personal motivation') is very different from amateur psychology that can take into account many aspects...

Truth be told I am not a great believer in professional psychology either

.

The motivational stuff does seem to work for some sportsmen at least for a period of time, but I doubt it can make a journeyman great. My problem with suppo at ducati was that the fault was always apparently with the riders, not with the bike or other aspects of the ducati operation, and that he was apparently happy to burn riders quite casually, particularly at pramac, ramshackle though that team was in the d'antin days in particular. When guintoli and elias did (occasionally) perform creditably against the odds, he was casually dismissive. Guintoli in particular I thought showed potential, more than any rider since prior to randy de puniet anyway, and a podium for randy this year would be rightly hailed as a great result.

rossiofsky · Feb 9, 2011

If i didn't know about his motogp history, i could think he was a Rossi fan on this forum and is excusing Rossi losts in 2006 and 2007?

If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion, because people only remember the end of a championship, as they do with Nicky [Hayden] in 2006, he said. They never remember the start.

At Yamaha in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 it was Valentino winning. Remember in 2007 all the problems with the bike?

So if it's true, this legend that Valentino and Jeremy [Burgess] can build a 'super-bike', it should have been shown before then. The Yamaha was the 'best bike' only when there was another outstanding rider able to beat Valentino.

With the resources of Ducati you also need some luck, he said. The 2007 championship is a perfect example: Choosing Casey and the 'crazy' idea to move from Michelin to Bridgestone [in 2005]. Without those two things it would probably have been impossible to win.

--------

rossiofsky · Feb 9, 2011

povol said:
I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. His is, that without Rossi to push him, Jorge became a 4th place rider, where clearly, he was securing the brass ring, before putting his stamp on a record breaking year.

The quote that really cracked me up was this

If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion,

Hell, he won the last 2 races and fans of a certain rider, who make up around 2/3's of the Moto GP fan base, say he was a lucky champion

This is the quote : If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion, because people only remember the end of a championship, as they do with Nicky [Hayden] in 2006, he said. They never remember the start.

cliche guevara · Feb 10, 2011

rossiofsky said:
This is the quote : “If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion, because people only remember the end of a championship, as they do with Nicky [Hayden] in 2006,” he said. “They never remember the start.

your point?

excuse for all the boppers because it's human to have a very narrow memory of a championship?

Keshav · Feb 10, 2011

rossiofsky said:
If i didn't know about his motogp history, i could think he was a Rossi fan on this forum and is excusing Rossi losts in 2006 and 2007?

If he didn't win in the last few races, people would have said Jorge was a lucky champion, because people only remember the end of a championship, as they do with Nicky [Hayden] in 2006,” he said. They never remember the start.”

At Yamaha in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 it was Valentino winning. Remember in 2007 all the problems with the bike?

So if it's true, this legend that Valentino and Jeremy [Burgess] can build a 'super-bike', it should have been shown before then. The Yamaha was the 'best bike' only when there was another outstanding rider able to beat Valentino.”

With the resources of Ducati you also need some luck,” he said. “The 2007 championship is a perfect example: Choosing Casey and the 'crazy' idea to move from Michelin to Bridgestone [in 2005]. Without those two things it would probably have been impossible to win.

--------

Absolutely. "Crazy ideas", inspired madness etc (like Rossi's preference for slowest of the cross-plane engines at the initial test)

probably factor in with the birth of ground-breaking, out-of-the-box changes more than anyone realizes. It is difficult at best

to break free of the morass of group-think. It's a rare instance when an entire committee of problem solvers has a blinding

flash of insight - simultaneously.

For instance you'll never hear a group of boppers unanimously admit that Rossi

has ever erred.

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Best riders/best bike - Suppo's view

Lebowski

povol

xx CURVE xx

cliche guevara

povol

xx CURVE xx

J4rn0

cliche guevara

Jumkie

Lebowski

michaelm

Jumkie

michaelm

J4rn0

Tom

michaelm

rossiofsky

rossiofsky

cliche guevara

Keshav

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