I think the 1200 regulation idea is to be put into force next year. They are allowed in superstock already and will be in the britis and world championships. If it evens things out a bit then i guess i can't complain, but saying the rule need to be changed to refelct the road market seems a bit fixed. I think the 1098 was built to race in superikes, not because the road market trend demands it, but hey i could be wrong.
I do not think Honda writes the rulesin Motogp, but I do think they wield an enormous amount of influence. Max Biaggi was tossed out of Motogp mainly because he pi$$ed off the sacred bull (Honda), that and the fact that noone liked him.
The Ducati/Pirelli cup (WSBK) had an exodus of full factory supported teams for two main reasons. The first being the move to spec tires, the second is the preferential treatment and handholding Ducati are the beneficiary of. Look no farther than AMA Superbike. Ducati did not get the results they were hoping for because the rules were unfair in Ducati's opinion. Translation: if we dont get card blanche in respect to the rules we will take our pretty red bikes and go home and sulk. Earth to Ducati-Build a better made, less expensive to race/ own bike and you may have more people willing to race them. They also made the mistake of pinning their hopes on Neil "Troy Bayliss is scared of me" Hodgson. Even Mat Mladin ststed that they had a competitive bike, just not a competitive rider. He (Mladin) went on to state that if Troy Bayliss were competing in AMA Superbike they would have been in the championship hunt.
The Ducati/Pirelli cup (WSBK) had an exodus of full factory supported teams for two main reasons. The first being the move to spec tires, the second is the preferential treatment and handholding Ducati are the beneficiary of. Look no farther than AMA Superbike. Ducati did not get the results they were hoping for because the rules were unfair in Ducati's opinion. Translation: if we dont get card blanche in respect to the rules we will take our pretty red bikes and go home and sulk. Earth to Ducati-Build a better made, less expensive to race/ own bike and you may have more people willing to race them. They also made the mistake of pinning their hopes on Neil "Troy Bayliss is scared of me" Hodgson. Even Mat Mladin ststed that they had a competitive bike, just not a competitive rider. He (Mladin) went on to state that if Troy Bayliss were competing in AMA Superbike they would have been in the championship hunt.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Jan 17 2007, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Ducati/Pirelli cup (WSBK) had an exodus of full factory supported teams for two main reasons. The first being the move to spec tires, the second is the preferential treatment and handholding Ducati are the beneficiary of. Look no farther than AMA Superbike. Ducati did not get the results they were hoping for because the rules were unfair in Ducati's opinion. Translation: if we dont get card blanche in respect to the rules we will take our pretty red bikes and go home and sulk. Earth to Ducati-Build a better made, less expensive to race/ own bike and you may have more people willing to race them. They also made the mistake of pinning their hopes on Neil "Troy Bayliss is scared of me" Hodgson. Even Mat Mladin ststed that they had a competitive bike, just not a competitive rider. He (Mladin) went on to state that if Troy Bayliss were competing in AMA Superbike they would have been in the championship hunt.
Some good points here, but even if it caused the Japanese factories to leave, I belive the tyre rule was a good descision. After all you can't satisfy everyone. It's made for close racing and beisdes, Ten Kate, Yamaha Italia and Alistare Suzuki have proved that full factory backing is not an essential ingredient for WSBK success.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 17 2007, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the 1200 regulation idea is to be put into force next year. They are allowed in superstock already and will be in the britis and world championships. If it evens things out a bit then i guess i can't complain, but saying the rule need to be changed to refelct the road market seems a bit fixed. I think the 1098 was built to race in superikes, not because the road market trend demands it, but hey i could be wrong.
Yeah, Ducati are being a bit unfair. I don't like the sound of the 1098 anyway, I mean, it's the same size as a Honda Blackbird, which is in the same league as the 'Busa and the Ninja 12. It just seems like such a big bike, even if its basically the same weight as the 999.
Some good points here, but even if it caused the Japanese factories to leave, I belive the tyre rule was a good descision. After all you can't satisfy everyone. It's made for close racing and beisdes, Ten Kate, Yamaha Italia and Alistare Suzuki have proved that full factory backing is not an essential ingredient for WSBK success.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 17 2007, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the 1200 regulation idea is to be put into force next year. They are allowed in superstock already and will be in the britis and world championships. If it evens things out a bit then i guess i can't complain, but saying the rule need to be changed to refelct the road market seems a bit fixed. I think the 1098 was built to race in superikes, not because the road market trend demands it, but hey i could be wrong.
Yeah, Ducati are being a bit unfair. I don't like the sound of the 1098 anyway, I mean, it's the same size as a Honda Blackbird, which is in the same league as the 'Busa and the Ninja 12. It just seems like such a big bike, even if its basically the same weight as the 999.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 15 2007, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Q tire.
I don't think they have Q tires since there is only one supplier
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Jan 16 2007, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are there amendments to the rules i don't know about?
according to the FIM's 2007 wsbk rules 2.4 and 2.4.1, 1L is still the limit:
i'm happy to be proven wrong, but everything i've seen or heard is that the 1098 is not homologated.
or am i misunderstanding the posts here and the discussion is just the 1098 generally or the '08 season or something?
1098 or the 1200 will be valid in 08
I don't think they have Q tires since there is only one supplier
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Jan 16 2007, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are there amendments to the rules i don't know about?
according to the FIM's 2007 wsbk rules 2.4 and 2.4.1, 1L is still the limit:
i'm happy to be proven wrong, but everything i've seen or heard is that the 1098 is not homologated.
or am i misunderstanding the posts here and the discussion is just the 1098 generally or the '08 season or something?
1098 or the 1200 will be valid in 08
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 15 2007, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's a total rip off, when honda was loosing at superbikes they built a winning bike. When ducati is still winning they complain and get the rules changed to make their like easier. It better not go through.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Jan 15 2007, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you guys do realize that ducati is defending the WSBK title in 2007 with the 999.
For some reason I thought they were using the 1098 this year too. Not that they need it having dominated WSBK last year and winning BSB in 2005 and coming close again last year. Considering the different rules in AMA I thought Hodgson did well the last couple of years too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Jan 15 2007, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you guys do realize that ducati is defending the WSBK title in 2007 with the 999.
For some reason I thought they were using the 1098 this year too. Not that they need it having dominated WSBK last year and winning BSB in 2005 and coming close again last year. Considering the different rules in AMA I thought Hodgson did well the last couple of years too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Jan 16 2007, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you guys do realize that ducati is defending the WSBK title in 2007 with the 999.
I guess they dont.
Infact I think you will find they are the same bikes as last year some some modification.
My tips for supers this year are Bayliss, Haga and Biaggi.
I guess they dont.
Infact I think you will find they are the same bikes as last year some some modification.
My tips for supers this year are Bayliss, Haga and Biaggi.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 20 2007, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You forgot about Toesland!!!
Toseland
Pleeaaaaase.. no chance! He can only win a title when theres no real competition
Toseland
Toesland is a much better rider than he was back then, him and his bike have been improving. Also worht noting that they have been superior to haga in 06, and carried that through to testing this year. Also worht mentioning troy corser, i wouldn't be surprised to see him equaling hagas performance.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antfan @ Jan 20 2007, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Toseland
Pleeaaaaase.. no chance! He can only win a title when theres no real competition
How many titles has Anthony West won?
How many titles has Anthony West won?
I didn't forget James. I think James is an excellent rider, but I am not so sure about the Honda. I think they will still have issues with the traction control and at the end of it's development.
IMHO Hondas best efforts with the 4 were with Chris Vermuelen and it's gone down from there.
I cant believe that Yamaha dumped Pitt in place of Corser. Still Andrew is back in MotoGP so it cant be all bad.
Corser is the Ant West of Superbikes. Full of hot air and excuses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 21 2007, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Toesland is a much better rider than he was back then, him and his bike have been improving. Also worht noting that they have been superior to haga in 06, and carried that through to testing this year. Also worht mentioning troy corser, i wouldn't be surprised to see him equaling hagas performance.
Tom,
Haga in well know for slow starts to the season. I would not put much into tests at the moment. Lets wait for the first few rounds and I think we will have a much better idea on who will be up there and fighting it out for the championship.
I wonder how Yamaha will go this year without Andrew Pitt. His work in testing and bike setup really helped the Yamaha over the past few years.
At least Corser has dud Pirelli tyres to blame for his DNF's and lack of wins.
IMHO Hondas best efforts with the 4 were with Chris Vermuelen and it's gone down from there.
I cant believe that Yamaha dumped Pitt in place of Corser. Still Andrew is back in MotoGP so it cant be all bad.
Corser is the Ant West of Superbikes. Full of hot air and excuses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 21 2007, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Toesland is a much better rider than he was back then, him and his bike have been improving. Also worht noting that they have been superior to haga in 06, and carried that through to testing this year. Also worht mentioning troy corser, i wouldn't be surprised to see him equaling hagas performance.
Tom,
Haga in well know for slow starts to the season. I would not put much into tests at the moment. Lets wait for the first few rounds and I think we will have a much better idea on who will be up there and fighting it out for the championship.
I wonder how Yamaha will go this year without Andrew Pitt. His work in testing and bike setup really helped the Yamaha over the past few years.
At least Corser has dud Pirelli tyres to blame for his DNF's and lack of wins.
Why Yamaha dumped Pitt is beyond me, I reckon he could have been a dark horse this year.
Anyway I hate this bloody 1200 rule. Do Ducati really need any extra advantage? They had two riders in the top three in BSB, and won WSBK. So wheres the justification for an extra 200cc? Because it costs too much? Or because they're are running with their tails between theyre little itie legs at the thought of racing the Japs on a level playing field? Either way, its BS.
The rules shouldn't be adapted to one team, the team should adapt to the rules.
Anyway I hate this bloody 1200 rule. Do Ducati really need any extra advantage? They had two riders in the top three in BSB, and won WSBK. So wheres the justification for an extra 200cc? Because it costs too much? Or because they're are running with their tails between theyre little itie legs at the thought of racing the Japs on a level playing field? Either way, its BS.
The rules shouldn't be adapted to one team, the team should adapt to the rules.
It sounds like poo
But technically they are at a disadvantage against the inline 4's.
The only reason Ducati is fast is Bayliss!
Think of the privateers, Ducati is getting its ... handed to them everywhere below Bayliss!
But technically they are at a disadvantage against the inline 4's.
The only reason Ducati is fast is Bayliss!
Think of the privateers, Ducati is getting its ... handed to them everywhere below Bayliss!
Well nobody forced them to build V2s, I don't like the constant tinkering with the rules, but like Honda in MotoGP Ducati has a huge influence in SBK.
I don't think the 999 engine is competitive nowadays, last year's championship was thanks mostly to Bayliss and the TC.
I don't know if this year Honda and Yamaha will still refuse to use a top notch TC in SBK.
I don't think the 999 engine is competitive nowadays, last year's championship was thanks mostly to Bayliss and the TC.
I don't know if this year Honda and Yamaha will still refuse to use a top notch TC in SBK.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mark S @ Jan 20 2007, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't forget James. I think James is an excellent rider, but I am not so sure about the Honda. I think they will still have issues with the traction control and at the end of it's development.
IMHO Hondas best efforts with the 4 were with Chris Vermuelen and it's gone down from there.
I cant believe that Yamaha dumped Pitt in place of Corser. Still Andrew is back in MotoGP so it cant be all bad.
Corser is the Ant West of Superbikes. Full of hot air and excuses.
Tom,
Haga in well know for slow starts to the season. I would not put much into tests at the moment. Lets wait for the first few rounds and I think we will have a much better idea on who will be up there and fighting it out for the championship.
I wonder how Yamaha will go this year without Andrew Pitt. His work in testing and bike setup really helped the Yamaha over the past few years.
At least Corser has dud Pirelli tyres to blame for his DNF's and lack of wins.
I know not to judge Haga on testing, he is a racer afterall, and it always takes a little while for a season pattern to settle in. And i would love to see Hagas performance pick up from last year.
I don't see how you can be shocked that Yamaha have dropped Pitt for Corser. Afterall Corser is a world champion (twice) a consistent rider, and an excellent development guy. Pitty cannot offer the team more than that.
Also i think your a little harsh on Toesland, he came second to bayliss in 06, and thats not at all bad. And Honda have been working hard to make the bike better for 07, particularly in electronics. This and JT's end of season form last year would suggest that this year should be better than last.
As for the 1200 rule, i have decided that i don't care what they do as long as no bike has a particularly large technical advantage.
IMHO Hondas best efforts with the 4 were with Chris Vermuelen and it's gone down from there.
I cant believe that Yamaha dumped Pitt in place of Corser. Still Andrew is back in MotoGP so it cant be all bad.
Corser is the Ant West of Superbikes. Full of hot air and excuses.
Tom,
Haga in well know for slow starts to the season. I would not put much into tests at the moment. Lets wait for the first few rounds and I think we will have a much better idea on who will be up there and fighting it out for the championship.
I wonder how Yamaha will go this year without Andrew Pitt. His work in testing and bike setup really helped the Yamaha over the past few years.
At least Corser has dud Pirelli tyres to blame for his DNF's and lack of wins.
I know not to judge Haga on testing, he is a racer afterall, and it always takes a little while for a season pattern to settle in. And i would love to see Hagas performance pick up from last year.
I don't see how you can be shocked that Yamaha have dropped Pitt for Corser. Afterall Corser is a world champion (twice) a consistent rider, and an excellent development guy. Pitty cannot offer the team more than that.
Also i think your a little harsh on Toesland, he came second to bayliss in 06, and thats not at all bad. And Honda have been working hard to make the bike better for 07, particularly in electronics. This and JT's end of season form last year would suggest that this year should be better than last.
As for the 1200 rule, i have decided that i don't care what they do as long as no bike has a particularly large technical advantage.
I wouldnt discount Ten Kate so easily. Thyre a good, recourseful team, and Toesland seems to be more at home on the CBR than he did on the Ducati. Like Vermulen before him, he's fast, and he's young. I'd definately put him on my list of potentialcontenders
contenders being anyone who is within 100 points of Bayliss at the end of the season
contenders being anyone who is within 100 points of Bayliss at the end of the season
Ummm Tom
I am not sure where you think i am unkind in regards to James Toseland
I dont see comments such as "I think James is an excellent rider. " being unkind towards James as all. Can you point out where I have bagged the crap out of him?
I guess only time will tell and we have only a few weeks to find out. I think this season will be much closer, like if we took TB out of 2006, how close would the championship have been.
Also with the 999, it is allow to have a higher state of tune over the 1000cc inline 4's, which I understand have a restrictor on the intake. Being in a higher state of tune would also make them more prone to blowing into small pieces.
When they go to a 1098 comes into the series they will be equal in the state of tune.
In regards to Andrew Pitt, I have to wonder why Illmor picked him.
Is it because Pitt is a gun in setting up a bike?
I guess that is why they picked him over Gazz and a few other riders.
Anyone else here remember allowances given to the inline 4's?
I can remember going to the WSBK at Eastern Creek back in the early 90's and seeing the 916 Ducati's up against 750cc Kwaka's & Suzuki's. It was not that long ago they were given another 250cc and it became 1000cc 4's V 999cc Twins.
Why did Honda move away from it's gun twin SP1/SP2 which won championships?
I am not sure where you think i am unkind in regards to James Toseland
I dont see comments such as "I think James is an excellent rider. " being unkind towards James as all. Can you point out where I have bagged the crap out of him?
I guess only time will tell and we have only a few weeks to find out. I think this season will be much closer, like if we took TB out of 2006, how close would the championship have been.
Also with the 999, it is allow to have a higher state of tune over the 1000cc inline 4's, which I understand have a restrictor on the intake. Being in a higher state of tune would also make them more prone to blowing into small pieces.
When they go to a 1098 comes into the series they will be equal in the state of tune.
In regards to Andrew Pitt, I have to wonder why Illmor picked him.
Is it because Pitt is a gun in setting up a bike?
I guess that is why they picked him over Gazz and a few other riders.
Anyone else here remember allowances given to the inline 4's?
I can remember going to the WSBK at Eastern Creek back in the early 90's and seeing the 916 Ducati's up against 750cc Kwaka's & Suzuki's. It was not that long ago they were given another 250cc and it became 1000cc 4's V 999cc Twins.
Why did Honda move away from it's gun twin SP1/SP2 which won championships?
It was actually antfan who i felt was harsh to JT when he said "Toseland Pleeaaaaase.. no chance! He can only win a title when theres no real competition". However i was a little surprised to find that you left him out of your tips for next year.
JT is the best rider out there whos name doesn't begin with Troy, but thats without having a chance to judge Biaggi fairly, so i guess we will have to wait and see. I do understand that your lack of faith is in Honda as you said, but i think they will be getting stronger this year.
JT is the best rider out there whos name doesn't begin with Troy, but thats without having a chance to judge Biaggi fairly, so i guess we will have to wait and see. I do understand that your lack of faith is in Honda as you said, but i think they will be getting stronger this year.
