A few facts about Ducati, Bridgestone in 07

Agree, Casey is the man at the moment.

Agreed.

But Casey and Pedrosa still have a lot to learn--mainly about race management.

They still sprint like panicky children the second they see daylight in front of them. It didn't work in the 990s. It will only continue to work as long as the electronics are around.

Nicky knows how hard it is to learn how to save your tires. Rossi knows how hard it is to maintain the same lap times when your tires are gone (he's the only one who can do it sans computer aid). If Dorna bans the electronic gadgets, Stoner and Pedrosa may have serious mid-career crises.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 03:58 AM) [snapback]105500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is the Ducati the best bike? Is bridgestone the better tire?

Here are some facts of the 07 season.

3 Other Riders have the Ducati GP07 and Bridgestone - only 4 podiums between them

9 Other Riders have Bridgestone - only 2 wins, Loris and Vermuelen both wet races and Loris won due to the best pit stop strategy

6 Qailifying sessons where Stoner was the only Bridgestone rider in the Top 4.

Stoner has more podiums than all the other Bridestone riders combined.

Stoner + Ducati + Bridgestone = 10 Wins
nuff said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ffRj8eD_Y


Good point, and no doubt stoner is the real thing, however it's not entirely fair to look at this without looking at the rider material Brigestone vs Michelin. How many championships does Stones riders have compared to Michelin riders?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 03:58 AM) [snapback]105500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is the Ducati the best bike? Is bridgestone the better tire?

Here are some facts of the 07 season.

3 Other Riders have the Ducati GP07 and Bridgestone - only 4 podiums between them

9 Other Riders have Bridgestone - only 2 wins, Loris and Vermuelen both wet races and Loris won due to the best pit stop strategy

6 Qailifying sessons where Stoner was the only Bridgestone rider in the Top 4.

Stoner has more podiums than all the other Bridestone riders combined.

Stoner + Ducati + Bridgestone = 10 Wins
nuff said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ffRj8eD_Y


This is the reason why I have Stoner among my favourite riders. I have always given him full credit. But my interpretation is different - as you put it, it seems Stoner dominated using inferior materials - that's pushing things too far. Ducati is the most competitive bike if you can tame it and exploit its electronics properly - but it is also the most difficult bike to take to the limit.

Ducati is suited to young riders with a lot of technical understanding and guts, and is not suited to the previous generation of riders (Melandri belongs to the previous generation because he has been racing for a long time) especially if these riders are not very capable to understand all the technicalities of the bike.

This is already clear. Look at Canepa, the 18 yrs old engineering student, who clocked better lap times than Melandri on the same Ducati at Jerez, without ever having seen that track before. A young guy like Canepa could soon become a strong contender in motoGP on a Ducati, without having ever raced in the lower GP classes.

As for Bridgestone, the other Bridgestone riders were using Suzukis and Kawasakis mostly, and that explains why they were not on a par with Stoner. How do you know they would not have fared worse on Michelins...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]105511[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
doesnt that make it even more remarkable.

honda more WC than u can count
Yamaha won it in the last few years.

Ducati was a mid pack b4 07 and bridgestone was still reliving the glory days of tamada 5 years ago when he won a race.


Well it doesn't take any away from stoner but IMHO it shows that the way you used the numbers against the other ducati/bridgestone riders doesn't show much. Stoner IS championship material, I doubt there are more than one of the rest of the bridgestone clan that is even close and only a couple of WC's from the smaller clases among them.

What I ment was that you compare a bunch of medium riders and one WC with a bunch of WC riders, and you should expect the numbers you showed us. More podiums and wins for the rest of the bridgestoen riders would make the the michelins look like a major disaster, not just a like they bad year. So in other words, it does show how good ducati and bridgestone were in 07. "Statisitics" are fun, arn't they?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 30 2007, 09:24 PM) [snapback]105508[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
lol hayden conserve tires? now theres a first. thats comedy


That's my point. Since joining Motogp he's been on a shallow learning curve trying to figure out how to save tires while riding a V-5 (now a V4).

Rossi won 11 races in 2001. He was clearly the best rider on the best tires on the best bike. That's the only way you can win 11 races in one season. Casey won 10 this year. He was probably the best man on the best bike on the best tires.

Rossi wasn't at the peak of his career at the end of the 2001 season, he still had some lessons to learn and some machinery to develop before he became the "god" of motogp. What's wrong with saying Casey still has much to learn?

Schwantz's career and his one world title are the signature of a man pushing inferior equipment to it's maximum. Casey's season doesn't fit the mold of an underdog.

Besides, Casey has heaped all of this criticism upon himself anyways. Suppo had been telling him to slow down all season, and Stoner kept packing in the 10 second wins because he wanted to make a statement.

The obvious reaction was that people would say it was entirely the bike (especially after what he accomplished in 06). They are wrong, but the reaction is predictable. Besides, what else are people going to say when Pedrosa nearly finishes every wet race, and Stoner doesn't bin it once. Their arguments will grow even stronger when Lorenzo scores well in the wet in 2008. Like it or not, electronics are definitely helping the youngins. At least the new breed of 250 children have come right out with it.

"Nicky had the best bike and tires and Valentino had the worst. Casey had the best bike and tires and Valentino had the worst."

You'll get used to it. Don't waste your time trying to prove Casey is legit, only Mr. Stoner can accomplish that. Just gloat.

yeah well if he can do it with a different bike or after they reduce electronics then ill give him some credit.

good one for posting an old video that says the electronics let him ride the way he does.

i dont care that hes the best TC rider, go throuh some this years races and you will see how many times TC saves his ..., especially assen when rossi was chassing him you see it on the onboard cam.

so for someone that needs electronics to keep 2 wheels on the ground thats not the sort of racing i want to watch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]105500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is the Ducati the best bike? Is bridgestone the better tire?

Here are some facts of the 07 season.

3 Other Riders have the Ducati GP07 and Bridgestone - only 4 podiums between them

9 Other Riders have Bridgestone - only 2 wins, Loris and Vermuelen both wet races and Loris won due to the best pit stop strategy

6 Qailifying sessons where Stoner was the only Bridgestone rider in the Top 4.

Stoner has more podiums than all the other Bridestone riders combined.

Stoner + Ducati + Bridgestone = 10 Wins
nuff said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ffRj8eD_Y



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 09:21 AM) [snapback]105513[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well elias and melandri were on bridgestone and a honda and did no better than the honda/micheline combo.

oh but oh yeah, the bridgestone only suit the ducati.....



oh but oh yeah how long do you think michelin tyres would last on the agressive ducati 10 laps????

could he have done this without the ducati and electronics.... no

could he have done it on michelin tyres .... probably not

Dear me.

Some people have trouble accepting it was Stoner who made the difference this year.

And that vidoc was terrible. I've never seen such a pro-Stoner documentary ever, it portrays him as the unlucky one, not taking into account his inconsistency in the smaller classes, as far as GP insights go, that was .....

I agree . Duc gp 07 was builted around the aussie

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Dec 31 2007, 07:04 PM) [snapback]105546[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dear me.

Some people have trouble accepting it was Stoner who made the difference this year.



no not at all obviously he was riding the bike but whats the chances of another rider gettin a pakage that suited from day one?, he was so lucky,
im just saying if he swapped to a different machine would he be so domminant ??
i just dont think he would, riders spend along time trying to get there machine rite, loris couldnt find a good setting all year.
loris said he likes the suzuki and id love it to see him beat ducati next season, hopefully he will be more competative because the suzuki suits him better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Dec 31 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]105546[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Some people have trouble accepting it was Stoner who made the difference this year.


I don't think that is the case except for the die hard Rossi fans.

Stoner was obviously the best man for the job. He and the machine were one this season.

However, I'm not going to pretend that a bike that started out with a 20 click top speed advantage, and the best sorted tire and electronics combination (after the break) was an underdog.

The bike was incredible, so was Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]105500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is the Ducati the best bike? Is bridgestone the better tire?

Here are some facts of the 07 season.

3 Other Riders have the Ducati GP07 and Bridgestone - only 4 podiums between them


do you think the Pramac team have equal machinery, parts and mechanics?

Barros beating the world champ at Mugello has got to be ride of the season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 02:58 AM) [snapback]105500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
9 Other Riders have Bridgestone - only 2 wins, Loris and Vermuelen both wet races and Loris won due to the best pit stop strategy


The only underperformer here was Loris... Suzuki was getting ..... on the straights by the Ducati along with everyone else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jaimeg @ Dec 31 2007, 07:17 PM) [snapback]105549[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree . Duc gp 07 was builted around the aussie


I doubt that its just been a lucky combination, the Ducati has been tamed alot and Stoner comes along and riders the bikes the way other guys like Rossi, Capirossi are stuck in the past.

I still don't think its right tho, if Stoner rode a street bike like that he would fall off every corner because he turns it in way earlier and his lines seem not normal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 31 2007, 11:39 PM) [snapback]105560[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
yeah normal gets your mid pack race results.

just like lewis hamilton, stoner dont take same lines as anyone else. thats how they distinguish themselves from other racers



maybe in 2020 i'll accept that.... for now i want to see something more humanly possible which shows the skill of the rider in a better way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Jan 1 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]105567[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
maybe in 2020 i'll accept that.... for now i want to see something more humanly possible which shows the skill of the rider in a better way.


Bollocks Andrew.
You want to see Vale win and anything else doesn't matter.