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800's vs 990's

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phleg

Joined Nov 2006
2K Posts | 0+
North Wales
Two races into the 800 era and the racing is not as exciting as it previously was, IMHO, and the 800's are FASTER than the 990's were, so how would you feel about:

800's racing against 990's!!??

It wouldn't be like 990 vs 500 as the disadvantage would be negated. And I'm sure it would help the poorer teams and enhance the racing.

990 powers by on the straight but the 800 gets it in braking.



DAMN YOU DORNA!
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The 800's would lose if any team even close to significant developed a 990, maybe Ilmor could run a 990 and still finish last but thats about it.

The trouble is, where is the line drawn bettween the poor and rich teams that are allowed 990's. Did you watch F1 last season when Torro Rosso were allowed to run a restricted v10 wile the others ran v8's? At first it seemed like a good way of giving the poor team a break, but it is not at all fair on the poorest of the "rich" teams running a v8 and getting beaten by the poor lot with the technical advantage. I fear the same would happen if you gave the poorer gp teams 990 engines.
 
Although the 800's lap quicker, put them in the same race as a 990 and I don't think they wouldn't stand a chance. Problem is the 990's would blow past them on the straight and sure enough, the 800's would close up in braking (prob not enough to pass), then attempt to carry a higher corner speed through the corner but then be blocked by the 990 mid-corner.

Problem for the 800's is there's plenty of lines on the straights for the 990's to pass but only one line through the corners hence wouldn't be able to pass as easily. We saw this when honda bought out the 500 v-twin. Was quicker through the corners and able to lap as quick as the 4 cylinders but always suffered when going head to head on the track.
 
I guess in this world you are all dreaming about, money is no issue, there would be no emission problems and I'd say give them the 800 two stroke.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Apr 18 2007, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess in this world you are all dreaming about, money is no issue, there would be no emission problems and I'd say give them the 800 two stroke.

I think an 800 2 poke would be ......

I've read somewhere that the bigger the capacity of a two stroke, the more inefficient it becomes.
 
Two races into the 800 era and the racing is not as exciting as it previously was,

I agree,the 800's are a momentum bike whereas the 990's were more point and shoot that depended on brute HP.I liked the sliding and roasting the rear thru high speed corners.They said in the beginning they would be more like riding the 250 and that is what looks like,250's with a little more top end
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 18 2007, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think an 800 2 poke would be ......

I've read somewhere that the bigger the capacity of a two stroke, the more inefficient it becomes.

Would you say an 800 2 stroke was ..... after riding a Maico 700 (single cylinder) engined sidecar crosser, an H2R or a TZ750?

I think most of the ..... would be gathered in your pants mate!

If any of the big guys were to build a big bore stroker, you can bet that it would be the dogs danglers, and with the technology available today, I think they would make a serious race bike, that ran as efficiently as a big bore race bike can be expected to.

Pete


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Apr 18 2007, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought it was because it didn't get off the line as well as the fours.


The fours just stopped in the V2s way midcorner and outdragged them down the straight. The point and squirt nature of the 500s made the V2 pretty ineffectual in race conditions, but did do the business a few times qualifying.

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 18 2007, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If any of the big guys were to build a big bore stroker, you can bet that it would be the dogs danglers, and with the technology available today, I think they would make a serious race bike, that ran as efficiently as a big bore race bike can be expected to.
<
hope springs eternal aee pete!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 18 2007, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would you say an 800 2 stroke was ..... after riding a Maico 700 (single cylinder) engined sidecar crosser, an H2R or a TZ750?

I think most of the ..... would be gathered in your pants mate!

If any of the big guys were to build a big bore stroker, you can bet that it would be the dogs danglers, and with the technology available today, I think they would make a serious race bike, that ran as efficiently as a big bore race bike can be expected to.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Apr 18 2007, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>bring back the 990's...800's are for .....
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800 Two Stroke… You’re right Pete… Sht, I see an uncontrollable beast.

Anyway, my guess is that two stroke racing prototypes are not meant for street bikes; therefore, their purpose is purely racing. With manufactures needing to develop and take that technology to the streets (which is better for us) and being able to develop it quite widely, four strokes seems a better option.

But bring back the 990s!
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I think we should give it more time, once teams learn more about optimum setup and factories figure more about what will work best, things will even out amongst all of the best teams and we will see closer racing. I hope.
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Racing with the 800cc machines has changed the face of Moto GP its so different now and at the same time not as fun to watch. I miss the good ol 990s
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Back with the 990's, they had peaked in their development, and there were many teams fighting for the top step of the podium. There is so little overtaking these days it's saddening.

With the 800's, the rich teams gain the advantage, I bet I can guess which teams get the top step this year:

Ducati, Honda and Yamaha.
 
I think we are jumping to conclusions too soon. The first year of a formula will always need time for the development to settle down. 2002 was pretty dull if it wasn't for the remaining 2-strokes getting amongst them. I'm gonna wait till next year before i say if the 800's are worse than the 990's were.
 
I have to say two races in and I miss the 990 beasts. There was something more interesting about them and they looked more imposing too. Still, it's early 800 days I suppose.
 
I'm with a lot of you here...yes, I do miss the 990s, but like it's been said, the 800s are still very new, so we'll see how everything goes along.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 18 2007, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
<
hope springs eternal aee pete!


I will always live in hope!

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 19 2007, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think we are jumping to conclusions too soon. The first year of a formula will always need time for the development to settle down. 2002 was pretty dull if it wasn't for the remaining 2-strokes getting amongst them. I'm gonna wait till next year before i say if the 800's are worse than the 990's were.

But just the name of it man… 990s… sound like ‘990s’, in fact it sounds better than 1098, you know what I mean. We can wait all season to see what happens but 800s are just going to be still named ‘800s’… I miss the 990 Beasts!

<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 19 2007, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back with the 990's, they had peaked in their development, and there were many teams fighting for the top step of the podium. There is so little overtaking these days it's saddening.

With the 800's, the rich teams gain the advantage, I bet I can guess which teams get the top step this year:

Ducati, Honda and Yamaha.

In what year did any other win MotoGP, in fact there has been only two factories and two riders ever winning MotoGP, Honda and Yamaha, Rossi and Hayden.

Little overtaking? Both races had different qualities and while there were not much overtaking in the front at Jerez the bikes are close enough in performance. The reason for little overtaking is just how some races develop. Back at quatar 2. and 3. changed positions over the main straight allmost every lap in the first halv of the race. Not to bad me thinks.
 

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