2019 Ciudad del Motor de Aragón

p4p1 · Sep 22, 2019

I’ve had a broken vertebrae, it impedes your movement massively. The pain is almost constant. Dull when you’re not moving, sharp when you’re trying to move.

The forces the riders must have on the bike would cause some serious discomfort and lead to exhaustion far quicker.

Gaz · Sep 22, 2019

33 Coupe said:
Great photo. I think Jack has really matured this year. Started the year going like a bat outa hell and burning up his tyres, but the last few races has really started to do the hard yards during practise by concentrating on set up & race pace. His end of race pace has been pretty good, whereas earlier in the year he was falling down the order. Now he genearally qualifies well and races with thought and maturity. Petruci had better keep looking over his shoulder, cause since he signed that contract extension, his riding has been very average. I hope he nevers loose the "Jack being Jack" behaviour though.

Agreed although for mine, if you compare Jack's first half of this season with Petrucci's first half in 2018, the results are a bit similar in terms of start fast, then fade so for mine it may well be a bike/setup issue and differences between the factory but non-Factory of Pramac and the factory really means factory of the Ducati team.

As for Petrucci, well I have seen it reported (rumours only) that all he really wanted to do was win a MotoGP race and now he is somewhat lost for motivation - time will tell but for mine as many said at the time, Ducati made a mistake in the longer term to appease a number in the shorter term

misfit · Sep 23, 2019

Gaz said:
Agreed although for mine, if you compare Jack's first half of this season with Petrucci's first half in 2018, the results are a bit similar in terms of start fast, then fade so for mine it may well be a bike/setup issue and differences between the factory but non-Factory of Pramac and the factory really means factory of the Ducati team.

As for Petrucci, well I have seen it reported (rumours only) that all he really wanted to do was win a MotoGP race and now he is somewhat lost for motivation - time will tell but for mine as many said at the time, Ducati made a mistake in the longer term to appease a number in the shorter term

That sounds seriously like rumour propagated by frustrated fans. I don’t believe it for a minute. I think the tyres are more challenging than it seems on the surface. Many of the riders are all over the place in performance from track to track this season. Only Marq has been able to keep his competitive edge every race weekend, though even he suffers since he fluctuates from dominating a weekend to having to fight for a victory and losing it at times.:spin:

33 Coupe · Sep 23, 2019

Like I said, I think Jacks improvement in performance is due to more focus in getting a good race setup during free practice. Once they have the bike setup right, they can then prepare a race strategy & pace to get the most out of the tyre. I don't know if the team has a better grasp on the bike than earlier on, or maybe Jack is better able to feel what the bike is doing during the race. Either way, his pace & consistency in the second half of the race is getting better, which was his achiles heel at the start of the season.

If the win by Petrux has blunted his motivation, he needs to hang up his helmet and give that ride to Jack immediately. Usually the rush from such a high results in an even greater focus to repeat that sensation he experienced when winning.

Gaz · Sep 23, 2019

misfit said:
That sounds seriously like rumour propagated by frustrated fans. I don’t believe it for a minute. I think the tyres are more challenging than it seems on the surface. Many of the riders are all over the place in performance from track to track this season. Only Marq has been able to keep his competitive edge every race weekend, though even he suffers since he fluctuates from dominating a weekend to having to fight for a victory and losing it at times.:spin:

It does, but it was reported that during the coverage BTSport openly discussed it but as I do not get that feed it is heresay only.

That said, I can see where the theory may have started and whilst yes, certainly all riders with one exception have struggled, let us also not forget that after his win he openly stated that it was now time to support Dovi, which some interpreted as being a slapdown as he had beaten Dovi and that did not sit well with some (that is something I can see given commentary).

Gaz · Sep 23, 2019

33 Coupe said:
Like I said, I think Jacks improvement in performance is due to more focus in getting a good race setup during free practice. Once they have the bike setup right, they can then prepare a race strategy & pace to get the most out of the tyre. I don't know if the team has a better grasp on the bike than earlier on, or maybe Jack is better able to feel what the bike is doing during the race. Either way, his pace & consistency in the second half of the race is getting better, which was his achiles heel at the start of the season.

If the win by Petrux has blunted his motivation, he needs to hang up his helmet and give that ride to Jack immediately. Usually the rush from such a high results in an even greater focus to repeat that sensation he experienced when winning.

I personally suspect that it is a little from all columns.

Now doubt for me Jack is getting more accustomed to providing better feedback and is also likely starting to strategise better so is learning to race for the full length rather than to beat people in the first lap.

Pramac are likely getting better with the bike, better and giving Jack what he needs on that bike and better an communicating with Jack as to what they need from him.

As for Petrux, if the story is true then he needs to get out of there or find that trigger that regains motivation.

michaelm · Sep 23, 2019

misfit said:
That sounds seriously like rumour propagated by frustrated fans. I don’t believe it for a minute. I think the tyres are more challenging than it seems on the surface. Many of the riders are all over the place in performance from track to track this season. Only Marq has been able to keep his competitive edge every race weekend, though even he suffers since he fluctuates from dominating a weekend to having to fight for a victory and losing it at times.:spin:

Agree about tires, they have been a determining factor both pre and post the control tire rule, formula Michelin/the SNS era, during the few years of the Michelin vs Bridgestone tire war when Bridgestone eventually became equal or better etc, etc, unless you are the close to infinitely adaptable MM, and even he has to “struggle” to get second some weekends as you say.

As Gaz may have implied, I do have my suspicions about Ducati as well though as to varying the specs of the bikes they provide particularly to the satellite team riders whether or not said bikes are theoretically full factory, and perhaps even to the second rider on the actual factory team depending on which way the political currents are running. Machiavelli and the Borgias operated not far from Bologna I am led to believe.

320Dave · Sep 23, 2019

So was the Aprilia fast or was Rossi just slow?

Love that miller made it on the podium however I wanted Mav to take those extra points.

When not even marc's team know why he is this fast it becomes scary.

He does remind me of stoner sometimes &&&& i thought we wouldn't have many run away races like this due to the tires etc.

michaelm · Sep 23, 2019

320Dave said:
So was the Aprilia fast or was Rossi just slow?

Love that miller made it on the podium however I wanted Mav to take those extra points.

When not even marc's team know why he is this fast it becomes scary.

He does remind me of stoner sometimes &&&& i thought we wouldn't have many run away races like this due to the tires etc.

I think MM is less affected by tires that don’t suit him than Stoner.

320Dave · Sep 23, 2019

michaelm said:
I think MM is less affected by tires that don’t suit him than Stoner.

I want to retort to that but I am unsure.

When the bike is working for them a bad tyre will result in a second or third place at worst.

You can argue Stoner lost 2012 because of Bad tires, I say that was just the icing on the cake & the injury towards the end was the cherry on top. He still managed to win a few but Lorenzo's Yamaha was just working so well it was too much of a battle for Stoner to care. He was also quite over fighting on and off the track with Valezpeleta team ....... with him at every chance.

Other than that year a bogus tyre would relegate him to second or third in 2011 at worst.

The Ducati quest is out of the question imo. That just wasn't fair.

For Marc, other than this year a bad (more like incorrect choice, Stoner didn't have one in 2012) tire could lead him to fall and or finish off the podium too as it has happened.

I basically don't know if you are right or not lol

:spin:

moto vudu · Sep 23, 2019

misfit said:
I thinks it's a combination of both. His injuries are accentuating his difficulties with the bike. As Crutchlow says repeatedly; the current Honda requires a lot of strong rider input to extract the performance. He even once mentioned how this was illustrated by how tired a very fit Marquez can appear after a race. So if it takes so much to tame the bike, then Jorge who is injured and unfit as a result will only get on that much worse. I doubt he'd be doing better than Crutchlow if he was fit, though of course that's just my own speculation.

That's probably true, but I doubt Pedrosa is stronger and more fit than than Lorenzo, and even the often injured Pedrosa wasn't fighting for last position.

320Dave · Sep 23, 2019

moto vudu said:
That's probably true, but I doubt Pedrosa is stronger and more fit than than Lorenzo, and even the often injured Pedrosa wasn't fighting for last position.

Bike was actually built around Pedrosa wasn't it?

Dude still fell off the charts with time.

moto vudu · Sep 23, 2019

320Dave said:
Bike was actually built around Pedrosa wasn't it?

Dude still fell off the charts with time.

I think for the past 6 years the bike has been built for Marquez.

Hollywood · Sep 23, 2019

moto vudu said:
That's probably true, but I doubt Pedrosa is stronger and more fit than than Lorenzo, and even the often injured Pedrosa wasn't fighting for last position.

but Pedrossa's style was very loose, he didn't mind sliding both tires, and thats probably based on his size and weight, because its harder to load the suspension.

Keshav · Sep 23, 2019

320Dave said:
Bike was actually built around Pedrosa wasn't it?

Dude still fell off the charts with time.

That was in 2007. It's been through a lot of iterations since then. Tho ergonomically it wouldn't need to be bigger for Stoner at 5.7 or Marquez who's only 5.6.

imunderandoverit · Sep 23, 2019

Keshav said:
Can't help wondering if it's his inability to adjust to the Honda or if he's still coping with injury.

Both i would say. Either he should take a year of or finish 2020 with honda and move to suzuki in 2021. Rins to repsol, lorenzo to suzuki. Similar bike to yama. Dont think rossi will retire after 2020. He will probably ride until 2022. And with lorenzos style; the suzuki is perfect.

michaelm · Sep 23, 2019

320Dave said:
I want to retort to that but I am unsure.

When the bike is working for them a bad tyre will result in a second or third place at worst.

You can argue Stoner lost 2012 because of Bad tires, I say that was just the icing on the cake & the injury towards the end was the cherry on top. He still managed to win a few but Lorenzo's Yamaha was just working so well it was too much of a battle for Stoner to care. He was also quite over fighting on and off the track with Valezpeleta team ....... with him at every chance.

Other than that year a bogus tyre would relegate him to second or third in 2011 at worst.

The Ducati quest is out of the question imo. That just wasn't fair.

For Marc, other than this year a bad (more like incorrect choice, Stoner didn't have one in 2012) tire could lead him to fall and or finish off the podium too as it has happened.

I basically don't know if you are right or not lol:spin:

In 2012 it was possible to hamper Stoner by taking away “his” tire as they did with the tire vote, and much of his success was on the hard Bridgestone. The Ducati was designed around a particular Bridgestone tire of course and didn’t work without it which I imagine would have applied to MM as well.

320Dave · Sep 24, 2019

michaelm said:
In 2012 it was possible to hamper Stoner by taking away “his” tire as they did with the tire vote, and much of his success was on the hard Bridgestone. The Ducati was designed around a particular Bridgestone tire of course and didn’t work without it which I imagine would have applied to MM as well.

As I said I think Stoner could have rode around that had he had any fire left in him.

He did it for years on the ducati even though at a physical and mental cost.

michaelm · Sep 24, 2019

320Dave said:
As I said I think Stoner could have rode around that had he had any fire left in him.

He did it for years on the ducati even though at a physical and mental cost.

I tend to agree, he was getting fast on the other tire prior to the crash at Indy and devastated the field at PI while still injured on that tire (he could probably have won on a bicycle at PI though), but he didn’t really want to be there in 2012 in the first place, let alone after the late weight change and tire vote which confirmed his world view and in particular his view of Dorna’s attitude towards him. It is something of a maxim that just because you are paranoid it doesn’t mean everyone isn’t after you btw.

320Dave · Sep 24, 2019

michaelm said:
I tend to agree, he was getting fast on the other tire prior to the crash at Indy and devastated the field at PI while still injured on that tire (he could probably have won on a bicycle at PI though), but he didn’t really want to be there in 2012 in the first place, let alone after the late weight change and tire vote which confirmed his world view and in particular his view of Dorna’s attitude towards him. It is something of a maxim that just because you are paranoid it doesn’t mean everyone isn’t after you btw.

Nah yeah I agree Dorna and the Valezpelta team screwed Stoner into retirement.

It also hurt my feelings that he left but at the same time I felt a great relief.

It had to suck to be scrutinized so hard by everyone because you had the bad luck to run into a very popular enemy (not rival, rivals are ok)

All his problems were under-mimed and ridiculed by the general public.

Spanish TV made me sick to the stomach in 2012.

There was a change of ownership for the Motogp broadcast around that time.

First Race: Stoner runs off into the distance, gets a 2 second leads and holds it for a bit, 5 laps to go or so and the arm pump started hitting him to the point of losing 2 positions.

Commentators first comment? Tonight we dine Kangaroo!!!!!.....

I was furious

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