Yamaha WSBK Test - Jerez today

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I've only ever watched WSBK sparingly. It's shown on a channel I don't get unless I pay for it. Debating doing this now.

Outside of reading the periodic story about it, I don't know a great deal about it at all. Is it a fun series to watch? I'm a little more interested since they actually are using consumer bikes. But actually how drastically different is say the R1 from the street version?
 
JPSLotus said:
I've only ever watched WSBK sparingly. It's shown on a channel I don't get unless I pay for it. Debating doing this now.

Outside of reading the periodic story about it, I don't know a great deal about it at all. Is it a fun series to watch? I'm a little more interested since they actually are using consumer bikes. But actually how drastically different is say the R1 from the street version?
Click to expand...

It used to be massive but I believe the FIM in conjunction with Dorna and the MSMA imposed a price cap (and an EVO class) in 2014 as part of a programme in order to progressively reduce costs. The silhouette and the motor are obviously street but the trick parts and mods are - or were - the stuff of NASA.

Because of the homologation rule, some radical and unique hardware has found it's way onto the market. The Benelli Tornado sounded monstrous, the R7 was orgasmic but usually reside in a collectors cabinet...and on that subject, good luck tracking down an FP1.
 
They are pretty similar JPS, I remember a few years ago Aprilia were banned from using a gear driven cam train because their production bike used a chain driven one. HOWEVER the gear timing was an upgrade option available so they got to use it based on that argument. No more.

The electronics are pretty sophisticated but apart from that and different fuel tanks, they aren't a whole lot different. They now even run stickers that look like headlamps to make them look like road bikes. I think it's funky, some don't. Oh and of course you get 2 races per day plus you had last yr 3 regular competitive manufacturers (Kwak, Aprilia & Duc), so you get more variety of winners.

So I'd say Yes JPS. Give it a try and if you don't like it, you can always go back.
 
#22 said:
Haha good man. I have a 1960's MGB and my daily is 12 years old but I only paid £400 for it. Thankfully though in the employment I'm in you get to try some new and some tasty cars without having to buy them.

Arrab, you are right and I HATE rotary/disc valve engines..god they are a pain in the arse!



point 2. Really? Do tell.
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Only car is from 1961. But it is back in Oz. Bought and fixed/restored before the stupid prices arrived...1995?

What's wrong with a rotary 2 stroke? I want an Aprilia 125GP with a passion.

Still have 2 bikes back home. Both 2 strokes. Neither road registerable.
 
#22 said:
They are pretty similar JPS, I remember a few years ago Aprilia were banned from using a gear driven cam train because their production bike used a chain driven one. HOWEVER the gear timing was an upgrade option available so they got to use it based on that argument. No more.

The electronics are pretty sophisticated but apart from that and different fuel tanks, they aren't a whole lot different. They now even run stickers that look like headlamps to make them look like road bikes. I think it's funky, some don't. Oh and of course you get 2 races per day plus you had last yr 3 regular competitive manufacturers (Kwak, Aprilia & Duc), so you get more variety of winners.

So I'd say Yes JPS. Give it a try and if you don't like it, you can always go back.
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Too many years back, I got to have a good look at Nakano's RSV4 next to Biaggi's.
Naka's was the test bike for that gear cam drive, I think. Engine had machined cam drive covers vs Biaggi's cast.
Both had SLA intakes though. Which goes to show how new they were.
SBK is crappy. Still haven't recovered from when it was the Ducati cup
 
Dr No said:
Only car is from 1961. But it is back in Oz. Bought and fixed/restored before the stupid prices arrived...1995?

What's wrong with a rotary 2 stroke? I want an Aprilia 125GP with a passion.

Still have 2 bikes back home. Both 2 strokes. Neither road registerable.
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Try setting the timing up on one!! I'm talking about on a kart, as Motorbike engines always struggle with fuelling as they are on the throttle much more than bikes due to the extra grip 4 wheels gives. Sodding NIGHTMARE!

Arrabbiata1 said:
Or simply dig out the 2002 season DVD to watch over the winter.
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There's always one who's gotta .... in the apple pie isn't there?
 
Dr No said:
Too many years back, I got to have a good look at Nakano's RSV4 next to Biaggi's.
Naka's was the test bike for that gear cam drive, I think. Engine had machined cam drive covers vs Biaggi's cast.
Both had SLA intakes though. Which goes to show how new they were.
SBK is crappy. Still haven't recovered from when it was the Ducati cup
Click to expand...

I disagree, but the 750 cap on the IL4s certainly butchered the series for years.

How fast was that gear driven cam RSV4 that Biaggi rode?

Have you ever sat on one of those things? - Just like a 250.
 
What exactly was the great benefit of the gear driven cam? Better timing? Reduce engine brake?
Fantastic stuff gentlemen, please continue. I swear I'll stick to just shitting on the gp threads if we can keep sbk the moto fan haven.


@jps : sbk is motogp light these days.
I like to think they're not far behind what we used to have in gps and there's a big plus : no need to fuel save.


Gentlemen,your favorite seasons? Mine would be 2002/2009....and I deny 2000 ever happening
 
2002 was epic of course. 2009 was pretty cool too.

I believe it allowed for more accurate cam timing Propa, as with a chain arrangement you're always going to get some 'slack', it also gives reduced frictional losses.
 
How do folks in the states watch WSBK? Do you watch the replay or live on the web? If live, did you buy the Videopass or find another way?

Researching because I am going to have to do a better job watching next year.
 
So basically higher revs=more hp?
I thought about the whole 2 stroke thing and figured if they can inject a tiny bit when off load, like on a fat fat carb, that would certainly make it behave like a 2 stroke in the braking/rolling zones
 
propagandhi said:
So basically higher revs=more hp?
I thought about the whole 2 stroke thing and figured if they can inject a tiny bit when off load, like on a fat fat carb, that would certainly make it behave like a 2 stroke in the braking/rolling zones
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To an extent yes, but it's not as simple as that. Torque is turning effort of the engine, and power is a function of the turning effort times rpm, but this tails off the higher up the rev range you go.

What, you mean by overfuelling? 2 strokes certainly know how to do that!
 
It's times like these that make me aware of the glaring flaws in my English vocab.
I could lecture you on Frederick Douglass but can't put my thoughts into proper English were it counts : talking engines. Fml.

Gist of my thought : more precise timing = ability to have a cleaner combustion cycle especially at high rpm = extra revs = extra power. Or at least the ability to overrun.

I thought about letting more,or rather the right amount, of fuel enter the engine on a closed throttle. Thus making it more easy to kill engine braking that the 2 stroke riders/those who like the wheels in line when braking DON'T like.
Sorry for the clumsy English, it's been 45 minutes since 420 and I don't really talk about engines enough in English.
 
Last edited:
@wv : if u need a place where you can get the stuff in a timely manner pm me!
 
propagandhi said:
It's times like these that make me aware of the glaring flaws in my English vocab.
I could lecture you on Frederick Douglass but can't put my thoughts into proper English were it counts : talking engines. Fml.

Gist of my thought : more precise timing = ability to have a cleaner combustion cycle especially at high rpm = extra revs = extra power. Or at least the ability to overrun.

I thought about letting more,or rather the right amount, of fuel enter the engine on a closed throttle. Thus making it more easy to kill engine braking that the 2 stroke riders/those who like the wheels in line when braking DON'T like.
Sorry for the clumsy English, it's been 45 minutes since 420 and I don't really talk about engines enough in English.
Click to expand...

Oh so you mean similar to what F1 did with blown diffusers a few years back, in effect opening the throttle as the car was going into the corner? It's in theory a workable idea, but don't forget you'd need feed air in too for the mixture to combust, so separate air injection would be needed too.

I'll continue this in the morning, but your English is far better than my Dutch!
 
I mean like just not closing the throttle body fully when declutching. Basically a more fancy and automated way of what you otherwise do with a blipped throttle. Btw is there a bikers equivalent term to heel and toe?
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
I disagree, but the 750 cap on the IL4s certainly butchered the series for years.

How fast was that gear driven cam RSV4 that Biaggi rode?

Have you ever sat on one of those things? - Just like a 250.
Click to expand...

Should've said the bikes were crappy. But that's just me and my regard for the 2 strokes.
Should've also said that it's me who hasn't recovered from regarding it as the DuckCup.

RSV4?
My mate sold (or rather tried to sell) them for a while. I put many kms on their Demo. Superb bike that actually fitted me. Also got a go on an RSV4 Factory. Apart from sounding better, couldn't discern the difference on the road.
 
propagandhi said:
I mean like just not closing the throttle body fully when declutching. Basically a more fancy and automated way of what you otherwise do with a blipped throttle. Btw is there a bikers equivalent term to heel and toe?
Click to expand...

By heel and toe are you actually meaning double-declutching? Can't do that with a bike box.
If not, How about rev-matching? Blipping is good enough description.
 
propagandhi said:
Haha ,I'm asking for the finer nuances.
Not a lot of race experience for me on smokers (kart) but I've done a couple of fast laps on really hot 250 apes.
Sure ,very very different to a 600 but as I said apart from having to do the whole downshifting more delicately (not just go from 4th to 1st without any blipping etc) ...??
I thought the single most different aspect was that I wasn't able to puss out and just take a higher gear in the faster corners. More unforgiving yes, but still you know. ..a bike. And I'd argue a lot of FI bikes are even more demanding because of the jolt you get when getting on the gas
Shows how little I know^^
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That's the worst aspect of my 125. The powerband is so small it's hard to tootle around, You have to be at 95% all the time. Makes it difficult to learn tracks as you have to be in attack mode all the time and with the puny power output, the wrong line really costs you.
 

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