Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
WSBK News - Lowes 'excited but apprehensive' for first Yamaha WSBK test
Can't wait to see some pics.
Can't wait to see some pics.
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
What is it that makes black such a good colour for bikes
Very rare to see an ugly race bike in black
Very rare to see an ugly race bike in black
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
I agree, although aside from the RSV Aprilia's, a one off appearance on the Vance and Hines Ducati for BBoz and some private entrants, I'm struggling to recall any in World Superbike. - Gone blank on this one. Perhaps I should BJ.C it Jum?
Plenty in GP. Obviously the Nortons, and the Elf Honda's also ridden by Haslam. I particularly liked the West sponsored Pons satellite NSRs. Seedorf ran those 125 Aprilia's for a time.
What were you thinking of specifically Gaz?
EDIT: Going further back in time Velocette immediately spring to mind...massive oversight.
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Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
Barros 2002 nsr,great call.
What happened to him? Arrab,may you enlighten me please?
I genuinely don't know how he never caught a break.
I grew up being told that as soon as he has a good bike he'll challenge for the championship. I know in 2004 he was banged up but before snd after???
What happened to him? Arrab,may you enlighten me please?
I genuinely don't know how he never caught a break.
I grew up being told that as soon as he has a good bike he'll challenge for the championship. I know in 2004 he was banged up but before snd after???
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Absolute demon on the brakes.
Barros started racing under age through a forged passport as I recall.
Loved it when he inherited the RCV V5 - rode it around the car park at Motegi from the crate and beat Rossi- then did it again at Valencia.
'Banged up in 2004' - you mean the injuries on the M1 screamer before they chucked millions of yen at taming it for Valentino?
He went to Repsol Honda and did eff all, I remember a podium for Pramac at Motegi, then went to WSBk where he was largely remembered for this...
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
You didn't say last of the late brakers. The ..... wrong with you,embrace cliché ,old chap.
I remember him breaking ankles (or shoulders?) On the 2003 m1.
The question is why did he do eff all on the rcv? He and jorge were the only guys beating rossi in a mundialito. I thought barros would set the world on fire.
Too injured after the original m1?
Bonus question : is rossi in part at least to blame for the r1 becoming a puss bike? I see a lot of similarities between the early m1/r1 and all 4 valve models, especially post 2009
I remember him breaking ankles (or shoulders?) On the 2003 m1.
The question is why did he do eff all on the rcv? He and jorge were the only guys beating rossi in a mundialito. I thought barros would set the world on fire.
Too injured after the original m1?
Bonus question : is rossi in part at least to blame for the r1 becoming a puss bike? I see a lot of similarities between the early m1/r1 and all 4 valve models, especially post 2009
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
I remember Barros crashing out of the leading group during one of the 2004 GPs - possibly Brno - because he downshifted by accident when he meant to change up! The dream ride was an RCV on Michelin tyres - something Biaggi similarly hankered after. I don't think either he or Max responded well to the raft of new parts that HRC are prone to launching upon their riders. Also, I regarded both Biaggi and Barros as classic two stroke riders. Granted Max won a WSBk title on the Gixer but his style on the Aprilia owed much to his success on the 250 (something that the bike lent towards - although the trick cam train helped) and was a technique that remained with him throughout his Moto GP and WSBk career.
We talk abut Barros on the brakes, but do you recall the first year of the 4 strokes, running alongside (well disappearing into the distance actually) the 500cc 2 strokes? There was initial speculation that the 2 strokes may have been able to exploit their nimble handling and prevail against the diesels at certain circuits. At Sachsenring, then traditionally a Yamaha track, OJ was challenging Rossi...he may have even been leading - when Barros missed his braking marker and took himself and the yamaha out. We will never know.
Rossi's preferences were responsible for the reverse crank for stabilityon corner entry and improved traction and the engine that he chose from Yoda was long bang, and so sounded - and still does - like a V. Also Rossi likes a quiet motor - notice how loud the RCV became when he left HRC.
The road going R1 lost its savage unforgiving reputation (passing the mantle on instead to the ZX10r as the widowmaker). The first generation, which was largely bought by middle age 'born agains' was amassing such a body count that changes were effected long before Vale arrived at Yamaha. But you are right...several years later the R1 was an ugly emasculated lump.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
I know I'll open a can of worms here but how is a two stroke so fundamentally different to a diesel?
I've ridden them both and I never really understood how one can be fast on one and .... on the other.
All I can think of is that you have to manage downshifts more elegantly (first one to mention closing the throttle on a 749 gets ballbusted) and you can short shift on a fourstroke and still go fast.
Oh to add a bit of smartass: I think max won both times with the aprilia.
I think the classic 2 vs 4 stroke scene is where barros overtakes 2 fourstrokes in the old fast part in assen. Fortunately dorna wised up and put that on YouTube.
We all love abe and co but I can't help feeling the increase in rider talent had much more to do with some of the old timers falling behind as the change of machinery. But I would love to hear something that contradicts this thesis. Truly would
I've ridden them both and I never really understood how one can be fast on one and .... on the other.
All I can think of is that you have to manage downshifts more elegantly (first one to mention closing the throttle on a 749 gets ballbusted) and you can short shift on a fourstroke and still go fast.
Oh to add a bit of smartass: I think max won both times with the aprilia.
I think the classic 2 vs 4 stroke scene is where barros overtakes 2 fourstrokes in the old fast part in assen. Fortunately dorna wised up and put that on YouTube.
We all love abe and co but I can't help feeling the increase in rider talent had much more to do with some of the old timers falling behind as the change of machinery. But I would love to hear something that contradicts this thesis. Truly would
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
By all accounts, it was in fact a 748s.
I do feel that for some raised as 2-stroke racers, the transition was fraught with difficulty. Checa like Abe always expressed a preference for the latter but he seemed to crash less on the 4-stokes and arguably had more success. The American greats that I mentioned all came from large overweight primitive superbikes but had incredible supernatural throttle control and an ability to slide at will, which they exported to the 500s with great success even given the ferocious narrow 'light switch' power bands and near vertical wall of torque as opposed to the more linear less peaky power delivery of a four stroke.
I guess the main differences lie in the temperamental all or nothing power delivery, the lack of engine braking, the need to maintain momentum, the weight difference and handling, cornering, but also the fact that you can make massive power from half the displacement. They contain less moving parts and can be tuned to buggery.
Riding wise, there was still a transition in style from the 250s to the increased power of the 500s...you had to learn to lift the bike sooner to maximise drive and spent less time cranked over, where mid corner speed was essential for the 250s and 125s. I mentioned Max, but in many ways Lorenzo sets up and rides his M1 like a glorified overgrown 250.
The factories backed the switch because of cleaner emissions, increased marketing potential, more parts and increased servicing costs. Who can say where we would be had the Japanese factories continued to hurl yen at their development. I've heard rumours of a Honda patent for a direct fuel injection cleaner burning engine...but don't hold your breath.
They were a ...... to maintain, needing regular servicing, less reliable but lighter, nimbler and ten times the fun.
I loved my RD.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
I only recall Loris steaming through who ingloriously crashed out as a consequence.
Nobody had a slow off at Old Assen.
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
Ha! Way to expose me. Could have sworn it was alex. But still amazing to see bikes so vastly different from each other
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
I need to revisit this topic when I've got less ....-it molecules in my veins.
But this whole lifting the bike up etc.... maybe I'm too pragmatic but you either have a swooping round line or the classic stop it ,lean over short and hard and fire it out. I never thought a sbk was to be ridden more like a 250 than a 500.
But this whole lifting the bike up etc.... maybe I'm too pragmatic but you either have a swooping round line or the classic stop it ,lean over short and hard and fire it out. I never thought a sbk was to be ridden more like a 250 than a 500.
Nothing specific Arrib but I just reckon that we don't see enough of the black which can be such a damn striking colour on bikes ......... I am aware that black is not a great 'marketing' colour and nor is it really a 'brand' colour but near all I have seen on race bikes look sensational
It is one of the things I seriously look forward to with testing as the bikes are often unpainted and to me it just allows you to look at the shape unhindered.
Road bikes though for me are a bit different - I reckon that Ducati Diavel is fugly, and the black one if ffugly
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Great to see a non MotoGP thread come alive.
I'm with Arrab, I'm a 2 stroker at heart because virtually everything I've raced is a 2 stroker. I will have (and use) my very first kart engine. A 115cc Piston port 2 stroke that revs to 17,000 and puts out 25bhp, screamer!
Arrab, I believe some boat engine companies (Evinrude and Yamaha for starters) have developed a direct injection 2 stroke, it's not seemed to have taken off though.
Props, Asking if a 2 stroke and a diesel are the same is like asking if a man and a woman are the same. Both can .... you up, but as a guy, one is much more fun than the other
I'm with Arrab, I'm a 2 stroker at heart because virtually everything I've raced is a 2 stroker. I will have (and use) my very first kart engine. A 115cc Piston port 2 stroke that revs to 17,000 and puts out 25bhp, screamer!
Arrab, I believe some boat engine companies (Evinrude and Yamaha for starters) have developed a direct injection 2 stroke, it's not seemed to have taken off though.
Props, Asking if a 2 stroke and a diesel are the same is like asking if a man and a woman are the same. Both can .... you up, but as a guy, one is much more fun than the other
Joined Oct 2015
985 Posts | 634+
Siebenbürgen süße Heimat!
Great to see a non MotoGP thread come alive.
I'm with Arrab, I'm a 2 stroker at heart because virtually everything I've raced is a 2 stroker. I will have (and use) my very first kart engine. A 115cc Piston port 2 stroke that revs to 17,000 and puts out 25bhp, screamer!
Arrab, I believe some boat engine companies (Evinrude and Yamaha for starters) have developed a direct injection 2 stroke, it's not seemed to have taken off though.
Props, Asking if a 2 stroke and a diesel are the same is like asking if a man and a woman are the same. Both can .... you up, but as a guy, one is much more fun than the other
Haha ,I'm asking for the finer nuances.
Not a lot of race experience for me on smokers (kart) but I've done a couple of fast laps on really hot 250 apes.
Sure ,very very different to a 600 but as I said apart from having to do the whole downshifting more delicately (not just go from 4th to 1st without any blipping etc) ...??
I thought the single most different aspect was that I wasn't able to puss out and just take a higher gear in the faster corners. More unforgiving yes, but still you know. ..a bike. And I'd argue a lot of FI bikes are even more demanding because of the jolt you get when getting on the gas
Shows how little I know^^
