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WSBK Aragon

T

two-stroke

Joined Aug 2008
340 Posts | 0+
Planet Earth
FP1



1 33 M. MELANDRI Yamaha YZF R1 1'59.822

2 7 C. CHECA Ducati 1098R 1'59.917 0.095

3 86 A. BADOVINI BMW S1000 RR 2'00.295 0.473

4 2 L. CAMIER Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'00.334 0.512

5 66 T. SYKES Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'00.344 0.522

6 84 M. FABRIZIO Suzuki GSX-R1000 2'00.680 0.858

7 1 M. BIAGGI Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'00.852 1.030

8 96 J. SMRZ Ducati 1098R 2'00.885 1.063

9 121 M. BERGER Ducati 1098R 2'00.973 1.151

10 58 E. LAVERTY Yamaha YZF R1 2'01.016 1.194

11 41 N. HAGA Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'01.063 1.241

12 17 J. LASCORZ Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.198 1.376

13 50 S. GUINTOLI Ducati 1098R 2'01.247 1.425

14 91 L. HASLAM BMW S1000 RR 2'01.264 1.442

15 8 M. AITCHISON Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.335 1.513

16 11 T. CORSER BMW S1000 RR 2'01.419 1.597

17 77 C. VERMEULEN Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.426 1.604

18 111 R. XAUS Honda CBR1000RR 2'01.564 1.742

19 57 L. LANZI BMW S1000 RR 2'02.533 2.711

20 44 R. ROLFO Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'02.597 2.775



What on earth is going on with the BMW's?
 
Figured Melandri would be at the top. I think this race is going to be exciting on Sunday.
 
two-stroke said:
FP1



1 33 M. MELANDRI Yamaha YZF R1 1'59.822

2 7 C. CHECA Ducati 1098R 1'59.917 0.095

3 86 A. BADOVINI BMW S1000 RR 2'00.295 0.473

4 2 L. CAMIER Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'00.334 0.512

5 66 T. SYKES Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'00.344 0.522

6 84 M. FABRIZIO Suzuki GSX-R1000 2'00.680 0.858

7 1 M. BIAGGI Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'00.852 1.030

8 96 J. SMRZ Ducati 1098R 2'00.885 1.063

9 121 M. BERGER Ducati 1098R 2'00.973 1.151

10 58 E. LAVERTY Yamaha YZF R1 2'01.016 1.194

11 41 N. HAGA Aprilia RSV4 Factory 2'01.063 1.241

12 17 J. LASCORZ Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.198 1.376

13 50 S. GUINTOLI Ducati 1098R 2'01.247 1.425

14 91 L. HASLAM BMW S1000 RR 2'01.264 1.442

15 8 M. AITCHISON Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.335 1.513

16 11 T. CORSER BMW S1000 RR 2'01.419 1.597

17 77 C. VERMEULEN Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'01.426 1.604

18 111 R. XAUS Honda CBR1000RR 2'01.564 1.742

19 57 L. LANZI BMW S1000 RR 2'02.533 2.711

20 44 R. ROLFO Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'02.597 2.775



What on earth is going on with the BMW's?
Click to expand...



Fck knows ! Sykes going well again
 
Someone floated the idea that BMW Italia may be using standard MM electronics. It's taken them half a season to get the system developed for the BMW.



Sounds plausible.
 
Melandri should perform good here...he knows the track better than the others, but it will be hard to beat Checa.
 
1. Marco Melandri (Yamaha World Superbike Team) Yamaha YZF R1 1'57.634

2. Max Biaggi (Aprilia Alitalia Racing Team) Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'57.790

3. Leon Camier (Aprilia Alitalia Racing Team) Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'58.279

4. Carlos Checa (Althea Racing) Ducati 1098R 1'58.472

5. Tom Sykes (Kawasaki Racing Team Superbike) Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'58.641

6. Eugene Laverty (Yamaha World Superbike Team) Yamaha YZF R1 1'58.756

7. Joan Lascorz (Kawasaki Racing Team) Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'59.194

8. Ayrton Badovini (BMW Motorrad Italia SBK Team) BMW S1000 RR 1'59.591

9. Noriyuki Haga (PATA Racing Team Aprilia) Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'58.566

10. Sylvain Guintoli (Team Effenbert-Liberty Racing) Ducati 1098R 1'58.640

11. Michel Fabrizio (Team Suzuki Alstare) Suzuki GSX-R1000 1'58.950

12. Mark Aitchison (Team Pedercini) Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'59.680

13. Jakub Smrz (Team Effenbert-Liberty Racing) Ducati 1098R 1'59.355

14. Leon Haslam (BMW Motorrad Motorsport) BMW S1000 RR 1'59.367

15. Maxime Berger (Supersonic Racing Team) Ducati 1098R 1'59.507

16. Troy Corser (BMW Motorrad Motorsport) BMW S1000 RR 1'59.565

17. Ruben Xaus (Castrol Honda) Honda CBR1000RR 2'00.432

18. Chris Vermeulen (Kawasaki Racing Team) Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'00.507

19. Roberto Rolfo (Team Pedercini) Kawasaki ZX-10R 2'00.678

20. Lorenzo Lanzi (BMW Motorrad Italia SBK Team) BMW S1000 RR 2'00.776
 
Check out WSS, the pole winners [ Parks] time would put him 2nd on the 1000 Superstock grid. This is why i loathe AMA "Superbike". It may be good racing, but its not Superbike. WSBK calls it what it is, basically stock bikes.
<
 
mylexicon said:
Someone floated the idea that BMW Italia may be using standard MM electronics. It's taken them half a season to get the system developed for the BMW.



Sounds plausible.
Click to expand...



I had heard that BMW were developing their own electronics package and thats whats causing the problems....but I could be wrong
 
povol said:
Check out WSS, the pole winners [ Parks] time would put him 2nd on the 1000 Superstock grid. This is why i loathe AMA "Superbike". It may be good racing, but its not Superbike. WSBK calls it what it is, basically stock bikes.
<
Click to expand...



Povol, will you please invest some time in learning about horsepower and motorcycle performance? No one is ever going to listen to you regarding the tuning rules as long as you make such remarks. An engine is an air pump. The stock (or not) nature of the engine components is not nearly as important as how the mods (few as they may be) affect the engine's ability to pump air and fuel.



AMA SBK (like WSS) is free compression with cam mods. Motorcycles have lots of valve overlap which is how they run such high static compression with regular pump gasoline. When teams install cams to eliminate valve overlap, increase duration, and increase lift; the cylinder pumps a lot more air. More air allows the fuel injection systems to be turned up. More air, more fuel, higher compression, and valve timing optimized for higher revs = lots of extra horsepower. SBKs were not built with Supersport tuning in mind so DMG allows modified pistons to be homologated as well.



Superstock doesn't allow any major cam mods which means the engines can't pump significantly more air/fuel. That's why Supersport 600s with sticky Pirelli cut-slicks can run with heavy, underpowered 1000cc Superstocks on shoddy road tires.



Racing, as a science, business, and entertainment property, is extraordinarily complex. It is not as simple as stock or not stock. If not for bungling mistakes by DMG and by the quartet of self-destructive, myopic distribution companies, I suspect AMA Pro would have made a great deal more progress toward rehabilitating SBK racing in this country and abroad (with the exception of BSB where things are relatively peachy).
 
Willski said:
I had heard that BMW were developing their own electronics package and thats whats causing the problems....but I could be wrong
Click to expand...



They are, and that is the problem AFAIK. These problems apply to Haslam and Corser. Badovinni rides for BMW Italia who are allegedly adapting the MM system.



Nice to see someone else on pole for a change. Race day could be interesting. Sykes turned a really hot lap on race tires during Superpole 3.
 
mylexicon said:
They are, and that is the problem AFAIK. These problems apply to Haslam and Corser. Badovinni rides for BMW Italia who are allegedly adapting the MM system.



Nice to see someone else on pole for a change. Race day could be interesting. Sykes turned a really hot lap on race tires during Superpole 3.
Click to expand...



Yes it was a good session. Sykes is really working that Kawasaki hard and his time on race tyre was impressive
 
mylexicon said:
Povol, will you please invest some time in learning about horsepower and motorcycle performance? No one is ever going to listen to you regarding the tuning rules as long as you make such remarks. An engine is an air pump. The stock (or not) nature of the engine components is not nearly as important as the mods (few as they may be) affect the engine's ability to pump air and fuel.



AMA SBK (like WSS) is free compression with cam mods. Motorcycles have lots of valve overlap which is how they run such high static compression with regular pump gasoline. When teams install cams to eliminate valve overlap, increase duration, and increase lift; the cylinder pumps a lot more air. More air allows the fuel injection systems to be turned up. More air, more fuel, higher compression, and valve timing optimized for higher revs = lots of extra horsepower. SBKs were not built with Supersport tuning in mind so DMG allows modified pistons to be homologated as well.



Superstock doesn't allow any major cam mods which means the engines can't pump significantly more air/fuel. That's why Supersport 600s with sticky Pirelli cut-slicks can run with heavy, underpowered 1000cc Superstocks on shoddy road tires.



Racing, as a science, business, and entertainment property, is extraordinarily complex. It is not as simple as stock or not stock. If not for bungling mistakes by DMG and by the quartet of self-destructive, myopic distribution companies, I suspect AMA Pro would have made a great deal more progress toward rehabilitating SBK racing in this country and abroad (with the exception of BSB where things are relatively peachy).
Click to expand...

Did i mention HP and engine tuning, no. I simply stated that a WSS bike would be second on the grid for the Superstock race. Thanks for the elementary lesson of how a combustion engine works though. Considering there is close to a fifty hp difference between a WSS machine and a Superstock machine, it is obviously not a question of HP and tuning that allows a 600 to run with a 1000. With that in mind, it would seem logical that HP and tuning was not the subject matter here.
 
povol said:
Did i mention HP and engine tuning, no. I simply stated that a WSS bike would be second on the grid for the Superstock race. Thanks for the elementary lesson of how a combustion engine works though. Considering there is close to a fifty hp difference between a WSS machine and a Superstock machine, it is obviously not a question of HP and tuning that allows a 600 to run with a 1000. With that in mind, it would seem logical that HP and tuning was not the subject matter here.
Click to expand...



The rules for WSS are almost identical to AMA SBK rules. Whatever you may have been referring to, AMA SBK has it and more.
 
I was actually quite surprised to see Melandri up at the top. Although he knows this circuit he hasn't shown anything at circuits he has know so far. I am hoping that he has found something in his setup that will help him for the rest of the year. Right now this one horse race is really starting to look a lot like another series.



Good on Sykes, I don't have much faith in his race pace for the entire race.



I feel bad for Haslem. Badovini is an incredible rider, give hime some credit despite the electronic rumors.



I really want to see Camier put it together mentally for the whole race. I really think that he could be a challenger if he just can get this last bit if the equation in his arsenal. He has shown he has the riding skills to ride fast he is just making too many mistakes to be a challenger. I really want to see him do well.
 
SackWack said:
Badovini is an incredible rider, give hime some credit despite the electronic rumors.
Click to expand...



+1



but at the same time,corser and haslam are great riders too. if you think about it ,bmw have : argubly the best basis to start (alongside the aprilia and at least since this year the ducati) and 4 of the best riders in the whole wsbk grid .

it must have something to to with the bosch electronics ,which is plausible because how much more experience has MM over Bosch....





regarding the championship i think this isn't biaggis year. if anybody comes close to checa in the end i think it wiill be melandri.but who knows,maybe laverty shocks us by doing a Edwards 2002
<
he is incredible to watch,the up and coming rider in wsbk IMO
 
The return of Careless Chucker! Should have settled for third. A thoroughly absorbing race. Great to see Sykes finally able to showcase his talent this season. Sad to see Leon languishing mid pack - that BMW just wants to run on into corners. So does Max, and the trademark outbraking himself manoeuvre rears it's ugly head again. Shame Camier ran out of laps. Superb racing between Norge, Syksey, Lascorz and Haga. As Whitham said, based upon the celebrations of Melandri's buxom girlfriend lets hope Yam Italia have sorted that R1 out and has plenty more wins in him! Race 2 should be just as enthralling.
 
Good supersport race, lots of tension. Great to see Davies win but a bummer for Parkes. Seemed like he was pushing 101%.
 

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