World Supersport Aragon

Outrageous behaviour and he should have his racing licence suspended. These deliberate acts of violence on track should be dealt with robustly.

xx CURVE xx said:

+1



specially the french ...... part, i would have stomped on Sofucklus face till i was wearing socks of dried .... and blood...

Click to expand...

chopperman said:

Outrageous behaviour and he should have his racing licence suspended. These deliberate acts of violence on track should be dealt with robustly.

Click to expand...

On a related note, why is it that Frenchys are aways on the receiving end of these types of incidents?

ah come on , zarco does his best to kill the cliche!

cliché guevara said:

sickened by him. i hope for him he won't be on the podium at nürburgring, i'm sure there will be one or two urine filled tetrapacks flying his way

Click to expand...

If anything like that happened i would be pretty disgusted with the "fans" responsible, their kind should not be welcomed or even accepted at any sporting event.

cliché guevara said:

you can easily explain sofuoglus success in the lower classes. its not that his talent is supreme or his work ethic. he just stoops to lower levels.

Click to expand...

That is rubbish and you know it. You may not like his attitude but Sofuoglu is a 2x world champion, at any level that is something that cannot be done easily or without a huge amount of talent and hard work. You might be pretty upset with his recent actions (despite claiming to have calmed down), but don't try to re-write history or devalue the sport by cheapening exceptional performances because you don't like a certain rider.

cliché guevara said:

....... needs to go.too many tragedies in motorcycle racing in general, no need to wait for another one because of one ... that can't be shown the door

Click to expand...

There is no need to get high and mighty about this, Sofuoglu is actually a motorcycle racer and I am sure he understands the risks and dangers more clearly than any of us ever will especially having experienced the ugly side of the sport relatively recently in his own family.



I'm not in any way supporting Kenan in this situation, that move was ridiculous and he has gotten off pretty lightly in my eyes considering the penalties being handed out these days for less and less of an incident. I would be very interested to hear what he actually has to say about this.



Oh and Simons broken leg was not Kenan's fault at all, so you can stop holding that against him too.

Tom, i disagree Sofoglu knows the dangers of racing more than anybody here, his outrageous display is iron clad evidence he does NOT. Im being serious, and i dont think im employing hyperbole. Yes, hes raced and won titles, this does not mean or prove he understands the dangers. Ive obverved him display his antics before, flailing his arms at Josh Hayes in Portamo. Again, at Miller, being demonstrative because riders had the audacity of racing him. Theres been other times too. He just used his bike and body to intimidate another competitor by weaving into and attempting to headbutt. Or are u gonna take the Foret take and say it might have been windy?



I'd say, not only does he NOT understand the dangerous of his actions (not more than anybody posting on this thread with the caveat of needing a bit more clarification of ur take to add u to the list); but it also seems he doesnt understand the spirit of competition.



Winning titles does not prove hes smart, it doesnt prove hes intelligent, it doesnt prove hes educated, it doesnt prove hes a good developer, it doesnt prove hes honest, it does prove much of anything; i doesnt prove he understands the dangerous of his profession, it doesnt prove much except that he can ride a middle weight motorcycle in competition good enuf to win a title. His actions actually go a long way of proving he does NOT understand a lot of things about professionalism in racing, particularly the dangers. There is hardly any explanation he could offer to justify his action, not sure what insight ur expecting when he issues his contrived statement. With all do respect, u sound a bit like the commentators. U see all the facts u need in the video to make ur assesment, but u want to hear what exactly? Reminds me of that song, 'it wasnt me.'



I think Cliche wasnt really going to throw urine at the man, but that doesnt mean Sofoglu doesnt deserve it. He does. He also deserves to be banned from racing. Its only a miracle and luck they didint clash and both suffer devistating crash. Thats what annoys me about ur take the most, that u cant imagine what potentially could have happened simply because it didnt. Foret could have been sitting in an ICU unit facing the same fate as Lascorz. Had this happened out on the street, Sofogulu would have commited a crime. What makes it less of a crime in this situation? Is this really permissible?!? How do u distinguish what Sofoglu did from simply standing at the edge of the track and throwing a rock at Foret? Seriously. Ur take is a bit disturbing.



Anyway, the second most gutless in this incident is race direction. They issued a penalty similar to cutting a chicane. Biaggi got a worse penalty for returning to the track at an undesignated section. 3 positions? Really, theyre gonna let this guy continue in this race? When Cal asked to return to the grid, they made him jump around on his broken ankle. Why? To see if he wouldnt pose a danger to other riders. Yeah, we already know riders want to get back on the bike despite severe injury, but does that gunho possible misplaced spirit pose a risk to others? Thats the question race direction should have quickly assessed that they had a case on their hands similar to Mike Tyson bitting the ear of Evander Holyfield. It was a mental break down! The only accetable response would be to stop him, disqualify and submit him to phycological review. Grand standing? Well not sure u understand the potential of what 'could' have happened not what by dumb 'luck' didnt happen. As i said, they should have deployed the black flag, if not the red flag. Who knows how he might have reacted to a black flag, as he already displayed evidence of a mental breakdown.



Just out of curiosity, what do u think is the appropriate penalty? (Assuming u even thing this should be punished), as we have never agreed on various degrees of racing incidents.

Jumkie said:

Tom, i disagree Sofoglu knows the dangers of racing more than anybody here, his outrageous display is iron clad evidence he does NOT. Yes, hes raced and won titles, this does not mean he understands the dangers. He just used his bike and body to intimidate another competitor. I'd say, not only does he NOT understand the dangerous of his actions (and more than anybody posting on this thread) but it also seems he doesnt understand the spirit of competition.

Click to expand...

Jum, I took Tom's comments with refernce to Sofoglu knowing the dangers as referencing the fact that Sofoglus brother was killed during a race in Turkey (all from memory).



This actually makes the actions of the weekend far worse and IMO almost maniacal in that he performed them.



Simple rule for me is that he should be removed from racing and immediately have his FIM licence revoked with additional punishment involving suspensions from national level left to that board. The removal fo his FIM licence does mean that he cannot race in any FIM event and would remove him from the world stage whilst teh National board would need to be responsible for their own punishments.



I do know that for some we witnessed the most dangerous act by a rider in 2011 but in reality that was minor compared to what occurred between Sofoglu and Foret which to me was close to the worst such incident I can immediately recall during a race (and like you, very comparable to the Harada incident)



Either way, race direction have been shown wanting in their actions on teh day and one must hope that at some stage in retrospect that a further and just penalty is imposed



As for Foret, well I suspect that his reaction has more to do with the 'code of silence' that seems to apply amongst a lot of riders but also seem to recal that he has history of being a very forecful rider when need be as well, so maybe self imposed silence is good as it shows no hypocrisy.

i think you lot got it wrong when you argue he doesn't understand the danger involved in racing.



he knows it very well,just as his competitors. thats why he repeatedly uses the riders fear of being run over to scar them mentally. i mean who in their right mind would dare racing close to sofuoglu?



can't see where i got high and mighty....i love this sport and those guys racing are my heroes.if one of them is ruining the spectacle and tries to kill the other riders i can't respect him and i'm disgusted by him.



also, i think if we wanted to we could make a top10 list of sofuoglus best .... ups, this guy just doesnt learn. and btw,he did crash in to simon in catalunya i think.please don't give me the senna ........, where theres no gap, theres no gap. period.



you can be disgusted with me if you want to,fact of the matter is this guy deserves a ..............the only reason i could think of why i wouldn't do it could be that i could be forced to miss sbk race 2.



edit : no reason for me to believe he is a real quality rider. i can name at least 50 better riders,possibly even 1 or 2 from wss 2012

only thing he can do competitively on a world level is supersport 600s, a class where the performance level is low enough that trading paint and running into your opponents can make a bigger difference than in most other categories.that does not mean wss is ...., i enjoy that category as well and watch it when i find the time between the sbk races. it just means what it means, the accomplishment is not exactly the same quality and "lesser riders" with outrageous behavior have a shot here where as in motogp/sbk..not so much

Immediate black flag was exactly my thought watching it live. I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to injure foret (the risk, that of a rider or bike proceeding at 175 mph encountering a tarmac proceeding at 0 mph, and then unpredictable behaviour of the bike or bikes after that, was probably equal for foret and him) but any rational explanation of what he did does seem to be lacking, and I strongly doubt the existence of any such explanation in this space -time continuum.



The stewards would not seem to have seen it as the bikes being blown together, and him doing something in a split second to separate them, but what they did see it as I am also at a loss to know, along with jumkie.

Its a damn shame really. A moment of madness has damaged his career and the way fans will look at him in the future. I think Sofoglu is a great rider and it was exciting when he first appeared on the scene. It's not like you see many turks racing. You would think he would be aware of the dangers on track more than some with losing his brother a couple of years back. Sofoglu was racing with a recently dislocated knee and no doubt would have been in pain or pumped up with drugs but i dont think that can be used as an excuse for his actions.

Just got around to watching it this morning. Inexcusable. What a lunatic thing to do.

Keshav said:

Just got around to watching it this morning. Inexcusable. What a lunatic thing to do.

Click to expand...

Very bizarre as well. Trying to head butt someone like that is more than likely going to injure both party's.

Simon Buckmaster's take on Sofaglu's .... behavior. I agree with everything he said about Kenan's past and his indignant stance, and the penalty he should have received. Intention was clear. In most other incidents, its difficult to assert intention, and sometimes its just a rider mistake, but in this case, Sofaglu tried to headbutt and intimidate Fabien.



http://motomatters.c..._penalty_n.html

michaelm said:

... I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to injure foret ...

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. What more needed to happen to be convinced it was intentional while saying the potential consequence of his behavior was not intentional. (I understand you do agree that his behavior was intentional, just not with the intent to injury). It be a bit like throwing a rock at your face while riding down the road on your bike, then having you crash. I could say, well I didn't mean to make you crash, I just wanted the rock to hit you on the helmet and bounce off. Anyway, probably splitting hairs on semantics here, as I've been in complete agreement of your takes.



Btw, some of the comments were pretty good on the above publishing of Buckmaster's take, with of course one or two lame ones. This is the first blip in the media I've seen. Nothing about it in the Wsbk site. And in reality, motomatters is simply publishing Buckmaster's take, which allows some spectators to voice their opinion. But I'm still of the opinion that the media have failed to properly report this incident and elevate its profile. I haven't read the usual ex champs and journalist writing an opinion piece, so shame on them.

Jumkie said:

Simon Buckmaster's take on Sofaglu's .... behavior. I agree with everything he said about Kenan's past and his indignant stance, and the penalty he should have received. Intention was clear. In most other incidents, its difficult to assert intention, and sometimes its just a rider mistake, but in this case, Sofaglu tried to headbutt and intimidate Fabien.



http://motomatters.c..._penalty_n.html



I'm not so sure. What more needed to happen to be convinced it was intentional while saying the potential consequence of his behavior was not intentional. (I understand you do agree that his behavior was intentional, just not with the intent to injury). It be a bit like throwing a rock at your face while riding down the road on your bike, then having you crash. I could say, well I didn't mean to make you crash, I just wanted the rock to hit you on the helmet and bounce off. Anyway, probably splitting hairs on semantics here, as I've been in complete agreement of your takes.



Btw, some of the comments were pretty good on the above publishing of Buckmaster's take, with of course one or two lame ones. This is the first blip in the media I've seen. Nothing about it in the Wsbk site. And in reality, motomatters is simply publishing Buckmaster's take, which allows some spectators to voice their opinion. But I'm still of the opinion that the media have failed to properly report this incident and elevate its profile. I haven't read the usual ex champs and journalist writing an opinion piece, so shame on them.

Click to expand...

My point wasn't that it was unintentional, but in agreement with you that the straight jacket and padded van possibly needed to be employed.

michaelm said:

My point wasn't that it was unintentional, but in agreement with you that the straight jacket and padded van possibly needed to be employed.

Click to expand...

+1

I downloaded a torrent especially to see this incident as i missed the supersport category.

The friggin incident was missing & only had the commentators talking about it. Grrrrr.

Thanks for the youtube Jumkie, what exactly caused Sofoglu to act in this way?

Mind blowingly silly thing to do.

"That's not allowed!"



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDr7yT8n4mY[/media]

Sec 50. "We don't know all the facts." WTF!!! They started off ok, reacting startled at what they had just seen, struggling for explanation. But then to tone it down and say, "we don't know all the facts." ....., you just saw all the FACTS you needed to see, and just correctly said, "that's not allowed." These fools should have been calling for a black flag, and nothing less would be outrageous. FAIL.

Jumkie said:

Sec 50. "We don't know all the facts." WTF!!! They started off ok, reacting startled at what they had just seen, struggling for explanation. But then to tone it down and say, "we don't know all the facts." ....., you just saw all the FACTS you needed to see, and just correctly said, "that's not allowed." These fools should have been calling for a black flag, and nothing less would be outrageous. FAIL.

Click to expand...

I think he should have his licence suspended until he has seen a shrink to see if he is mentally stable enough to race.

chopperman said:

I think he should have his licence suspended until he has seen a shrink to see if he is mentally stable enough to race.

Click to expand...

Yeah! Damned right. He should have to be examined by the guy who okayed you to drive that giant RV to Guna.

Jumkie said:

Sec 50. "We don't know all the facts." WTF!!! They started off ok, reacting startled at what they had just seen, struggling for explanation. But then to tone it down and say, "we don't know all the facts." ....., you just saw all the FACTS you needed to see, and just correctly said, "that's not allowed." These fools should have been calling for a black flag, and nothing less would be outrageous. FAIL.

Click to expand...

Some speculation in AMCN that sofoglu was upset by hard passes on him by foret earlier in the race, and from another source that he was upset at foret having (successfully) drafted him, neither accepting those explanations as justification, although not as condemnatory as we have been.