With the CRT heading to its rightful place

mylexicon · Jan 7, 2013

Mental Anarchist

3400121357594582

And this relates to the discussion in which way?

Oh look, I quoted another post so you wouldn't have to guess. Why do you masquerade as a fan-in-the-know, if you can't make elementary deductions about how engine regulations pertain to a post about engine regulations or to CRT?

Considering Povol doesn't understand CRT, this thread was pointless from the outset. CRT was never a conspiracy to 'dumb down' MotoGP technology into World Superbikes. It was a new set of regulations, which sought to make MotoGP a bore-limited competition, not a fuel-limited competition. The MSMA would only accept a bore-limited formula if CRT engines could be claimed (de jure), which required the reintroduction of production-based engines (de facto). Dorna have bargained for a better deal. In 2014, CRT bikes can be full prototype with no claiming restrictions as long as they use a spec-ECU with spec software. Since the claiming rules are being dropped, they can't really call the new bikes CRT, can they? Not only have the MSMA dropped claiming restrictions, but 1000cc regs and cajoling from Dorna have caused the MSMA to reevaluate engine leasing.

CRT (bore-limited racing) is being expanded and liberalized as a viable alternative to 21L (soon 20L) racing. Povol thinks CRT is going to its rightful place in the dumpster b/c he is clueless and incorrigible.

birdman · Jan 7, 2013

Lex its on record Ezpeleta cant come up with any rules by himself, he runs off to see his mate Nakamoto to invent moto1,2,3. Theres no brilliant plan to move the formula, just scribbled notes on a napkin while Nakamoto chomps on sutchi. Thats the problem in a nutshell. The man in charge is incompetent. How Ezpeleta can face the board of investors in Motogp and keep his job with the current rules debacle is beyond me. By saying he is calm, Rossi will have a competitive bike I suppose.

Mental Anarchist · Jan 7, 2013

mylexicon

3400161357601542

Oh look, I quoted another post so you wouldn't have to guess. Why do you masquerade as a fan-in-the-know, if you can't make elementary deductions about how engine regulations pertain to a post about engine regulations or to CRT?

Considering Povol doesn't understand CRT, this thread was pointless from the outset. CRT was never a conspiracy to 'dumb down' MotoGP technology into World Superbikes. It was a new set of regulations, which sought to make MotoGP a bore-limited competition, not a fuel-limited competition. The MSMA would only accept a bore-limited formula if CRT engines could be claimed (de jure), which required the reintroduction of production-based engines (de facto). Dorna have bargained for a better deal. In 2014, CRT bikes can be full prototype with no claiming restrictions as long as they use a spec-ECU with spec software. Since the claiming rules are being dropped, they can't really call the new bikes CRT, can they? Not only have the MSMA dropped claiming restrictions, but 1000cc regs and cajoling from Dorna have caused the MSMA to reevaluate engine leasing.

CRT (bore-limited racing) is being expanded and liberalized as a viable alternative to 21L (soon 20L) racing. Povol thinks CRT is going to its rightful place in the dumpster b/c he is clueless and incorrigible.

So you quote a post that was equally irrelevant to the conversation.

Then rant on as though your opinion is fact.

The OP was about CRT's making way for for sale complete Honda GP bikes or for sale complete Yamaha engine packages and which would be preferable. Hey but you go ahead and push your agenda and make us all bow down in awe of your significant intellect. Personally I think Povol's opinion of what he wants out of MotoGP and where he sees it going is equally as important as you think your opinion is. But hey I am just a wanna be fan who knows nothing.

mylexicon · Jan 7, 2013

birdman

3400171357604196

Lex its on record Ezpeleta cant come up with any rules by himself, he runs off to see his mate Nakamoto to invent moto1,2,3. Theres no brilliant plan to move the formula, just scribbled notes on a napkin while Nakamoto chomps on sutchi. Thats the problem in a nutshell. The man in charge is incompetent. How Ezpeleta can face the board of investors in Motogp and keep his job with the current rules debacle is beyond me. By saying he is calm, Rossi will have a competitive bike I suppose.

We recently emerged from the era of complete MSMA control. The rules were very different. MotoGP does not operate as you claim.

Dorna are interested in establishing a strict horsepower limit, and their method is bore-cylinder-displacement limits. For the horsepower limits to function properly, the fuel-limit must be loosened. Dorna are capable of dreaming this up on their own as every series from F1 to LMP to SBK uses horsepower limits in this day and age. F1 also uses bore-cylinder-capacity restrictions. MotoGP is basically the last racing series on earth without strict horsepower limitations, which means Dorna are obviously not getting their ideas from the MSMA.

I admire the MSMA for avoiding horsepower limits and maintaining manufacturer competition, but since they adopted fuel-limitations they've put MotoGP on the road to ruin. Dorna et al have made a proposal to adopt conventional horsepower restrictions, which is clearly better than the current situation. Obviously, that's why Ezpeleta still has a job.

It is the MSMA's job to make a counter-proposal. They don't even bother; instead Nakamoto tests MSMA influence by threatening to withdraw. Clearly, the MSMA are incompetent, no matter how much technical expertise they may employ.

mylexicon · Jan 7, 2013

Mental Anarchist

3400181357604406

So you quote a post that was equally irrelevant to the conversation.

Then rant on as though your opinion is fact.

The OP was about CRT's making way for for sale complete Honda GP bikes or for sale complete Yamaha engine packages and which would be preferable. Hey but you go ahead and push your agenda and make us all bow down in awe of your significant intellect. Personally I think Povol's opinion of what he wants out of MotoGP and where he sees it going is equally as important as you think your opinion is. But hey I am just a wanna be fan who knows nothing.

What agenda?

Dr No · Jan 7, 2013

mylexicon

3400221357608080

<snip>

MotoGP is basically the last racing series on earth without strict horsepower limitations, which means Dorna are obviously not getting their ideas from the MSMA.

<snip>

[with apologies in advance to MA and Povol for allowing the thread hijack to continue, perhaps Lex you'd like to start your own thread on this topic that so interests you?]

Can you explain what you mean by strict horsepower limits?

Dr No · Jan 7, 2013

birdman

3400141357599357

For sure the likes Rossi would not ride it. What you do is get the more adaptable young guys in moto3 on it before they get set in their ways and develop with them through to motogp. I think the problem with the hub set up is the handlebar to wheel relationship is a series of linkages and therefore can not provide the level of feel and feedback that the direct link of telescopic forks provide. Thus the great problem is front end losses occur with no warning, and we all know how bad that problem is. On the other hand massive gains can be made under brakes, whether its enough to compensate who knows, would like to see someone try though.

Good post. The thing is, while I really like the idea of innovation, I cannot see the benefits of a FFE being anything close to compensating for loss of feel. I'm also not sure about 'massive gains' being made under brakes. As long as the CoG is a couple of feet above the tyre contact patch, it's going to try to rotate around the front axle. That's the limitation.

mylexicon · Jan 7, 2013

Dr No

3400241357614787

[with apologies in advance to MA and Povol for allowing the thread hijack to continue, perhaps Lex you'd like to start your own thread on this topic that so interests you?]

Can you explain what you mean by strict horsepower limits?

If my posts address the premise of the OP, I'm not sure a new thread is necessary.

Let's say strict horsepower regulations are any regulations that yields horsepower variations of ~5% or less amongst savvy competitors with optimized equipment. For instance, a naturally-aspirated rev limit and displacement limit. Air restrictors or turbo-inlet restrictors. Bore/stroke limitations with displacement limitation. Spec engines. Manufacturer-specific engine regs. These are the major horsepower limitations used in almost every series.

Loose horsepower regulations are displacement limits, fuel capacity limits, fuel-flow-limiting with advanced induction, injection, and energy recapture technologies. The methods for beating these regulations are not common intellectual property.

Race sanctioning is like medical practice. Even the professionals do not understand all of the symptoms, side effects, and illnesses. However, racing fans should understand the general gist of race sanctioning, and how it affects the machines.

Dr No · Jan 7, 2013

mylexicon

3400321357624311

<snip>

Race sanctioning is like medical practice. Even the professionals do not understand all of the symptoms, side effects, and illnesses. However, racing fans should understand the general gist of race sanctioning, and how it affects the machines.

Exactly. And I'd hazard that No One can predict the unintended consequences.

With the CRT heading to its rightful place

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