Why the hate for MotoGP?

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

It appears that bagging on MotoGP has become a national sport around here (and not just around here), with everyone singing the praises of WSBK. Yet if I look at the main page, I see this:

7 times as many topics on MotoGP as on WSBK, and 15 times as many replies.

chopperman · Jul 28, 2012

Over what period of time though.

before this place was re-named Powerslide.net it used to be called Motogpforum.com and there was no WSB forum here. That was added at a later date due to more wsb decisions ending up in the motogp forums.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

chopperman said:
Over what period of time though.

before this place was re-named Powerslide.net it used to be called Motogpforum.com and there was no WSB forum here. That was added at a later date due to more wsb decisions ending up in the motogp forums.

The pattern is similar on every racing forum I visit. MotoGP threads get 10x the views and comments. A lot of them complaining about MotoGP, admittedly, and comparing it unfavorably to WSBK. Those same people then don't bother visiting the WSBK threads...

chopperman · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
The pattern is similar on every racing forum I visit. MotoGP threads get 10x the views and comments. A lot of them complaining about MotoGP, admittedly, and comparing it unfavorably to WSBK. Those same people then don't bother visiting the WSBK threads...

To be honest i think a lot of it is down to the Tabloid/soap opera nature of Motogp compared to wsb. This attracts a great number of viewer's and a fanboy mentality. This doesn't appear to be as common with wsb viewer-ship.

hawkdriver · Jul 28, 2012

Silly season has everyone's panties up their .....

news1213 · Jul 28, 2012

chopperman said:
To be honest i think a lot of it is down to the Tabloid/soap opera nature of Motogp compared to wsb. This attracts a great number of viewer's and a fanboy mentality. This doesn't appear to be as common with wsb viewer-ship.

+1

MotoGP is also still obviously the top dog in motorcycle sports, doesn't mean fans can't complain about it if they think it's going downhill. WSBK definitely less soap opera .... going on and It's no secret the racing has been much better in there for some time now.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

news1213 said:
+1

MotoGP is also still obviously the top dog in motorcycle sports, doesn't mean fans can't complain about it if they think it's going downhill. WSBK definitely less soap opera .... going on and It's no secret the racing has been much better in there for some time now.

I think the difference is that the soap opera is less visible in WSBK because 1) the series is much more tightly controlled, with fines in place for anyone who ....... about the tires or the series, and 2) the series doesn't get as much press coverage as MotoGP. The racing is definitely closer, and has been since 2007. But then the racing in Moto2 is awesome, and fewer people watch that too. The soap opera in Moto2 is even more (melo)dramatic than in MotoGP...

news1213 · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
I think the difference is that the soap opera is less visible in WSBK because 1) the series is much more tightly controlled, with fines in place for anyone who ....... about the tires or the series, and 2) the series doesn't get as much press coverage as MotoGP. The racing is definitely closer, and has been since 2007. But then the racing in Moto2 is awesome, and fewer people watch that too. The soap opera in Moto2 is even more (melo)dramatic than in MotoGP...

I agree.

People love themselves some soap..

I would guess the reason poeple post more in Motogp threads is because that series is regarded as having the best riders in the world.

chopperman · Jul 28, 2012

news1213 said:
I agree.

People love themselves some soap..

I would guess the reason poeple post more in Motogp threads is because that series is regarded as having the best riders in the world.

Yes we do all seem to love a bit of drama and this generates a lot of threads and posts on message boards and forums. The premier class will always draw more interest as does the soap and drama that goes with it. Moto2 may have more soap and drama but like the second and third tier of football it doesn't get as much detailed interest and discussion.

Look at football. Even people who don't follow football will sit and watch the world cup. They will also have strong opinions on any drama regardless of the fact there's generally more drama in lower league football. I guess we expect more of the people who are at the pinnacle of their careers.

Mental Anarchist · Jul 28, 2012

Is the question about MotoGP or WSBK threads?

MotoGP has become WWF. It is that simple. The continued rule changes that appear to be constantly in favour of one type of rider. The interference from Ezpeleta to get riders with big fan bases onto the best bikes. The shear numbers of Spanish riders populating the sport regardless of whether they are deserving or not whilst riders from other nationalities who completely deserve to be there walking out because of the politics of the sport.

I am watching QP right now. This is the first session of Laguna I have watched. That is the first time in probably 3 years I have missed a FP session. Why have I missed them? Because my interest has wained that much and my disappointment in things like Ezpeleta negotiating on Rossi's behalf and attempting to get Marlboro to sponsor Yamaha/Rossi.

If WSBK streamed all the sessions live via their website then I would be all over it. As I haven't watched TV for over a year now, online is the only manner in which I watch anything.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
That is the first time in probably 3 years I have missed a FP session. Why have I missed them? Because my interest has wained that much and my disappointment in things like Ezpeleta negotiating on Rossi's behalf and attempting to get Marlboro to sponsor Yamaha/Rossi.

Is Ezpeleta pushing to get Rossi on a Yamaha? Probably. Is Ezpeleta pushing Marlboro to sponsor Yamaha? No. That's ......... But a question: what do you know of the Flamminis' machinations to keep Biaggi racing and on an Aprilia? Of their manipulation of sponsor contracts?

Mental Anarchist said:
If WSBK streamed all the sessions live via their website then I would be all over it. As I haven't watched TV for over a year now, online is the only manner in which I watch anything.

But you don't like WSBK enough to buy a TV and watch it...

Mental Anarchist · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
Is Ezpeleta pushing to get Rossi on a Yamaha? Probably. Is Ezpeleta pushing Marlboro to sponsor Yamaha? No. That's ......... But a question: what do you know of the Flamminis' machinations to keep Biaggi racing and on an Aprilia? Of their manipulation of sponsor contracts?

But you don't like WSBK enough to buy a TV and watch it...

I have a TV. In Australia it is only shown on pay TV which I refuse to purchase for other reasons none of which are cost (I have a significant income so cost is never a factor). I made a personal commitment more than a year ago to stop watching TV no exceptions. I would prefer to watch MotoGP because I want to watch the best on the best. Next year that just won't be the case because the best is leaving and the grid is full of bikes that are far from the best.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
I have a TV. In Australia it is only shown on pay TV which I refuse to purchase for other reasons none of which are cost (I have a significant income so cost is never a factor). I made a personal commitment more than a year ago to stop watching TV no exceptions. I would prefer to watch MotoGP because I want to watch the best on the best. Next year that just won't be the case because the best is leaving and the grid is full of bikes that are far from the best.

It will still be the best of the best. My opinion of Stoner is well known, but he won't be a motorcycle racer next year, so he will therefore no longer be eligible to be the best motorcycle racer in the world. Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Rossi, Marquez will all be in MotoGP. Nobody in any other series can get anywhere near them. I expect Spies to go back to WSBK and dominate, making clear once again the relative state of the two series.

Oh, and one more thing: "Best" is a relative word, it means better than all the rest. Whatever happens in MotoGP, these will still be the best riders on the best bikes.

Mental Anarchist · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
It will still be the best of the best. My opinion of Stoner is well known, but he won't be a motorcycle racer next year, so he will therefore no longer be eligible to be the best motorcycle racer in the world. Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Rossi, Marquez will all be in MotoGP. Nobody in any other series can get anywhere near them. I expect Spies to go back to WSBK and dominate, making clear once again the relative state of the two series.

True, but you must factor in the reason why Stoner will not be a motorcycle racer next year. If all of a sudden Dorna decided that it was to be all about English and German riders and all Spanish/Italian riders must go and they retired as a result before time, would it still be the best of the best?

If Dorna had promoted Stoner as something positive for MotoGP rather than the villain and detrimental to MotoGP I have no doubt that Stoner would still be racing in 2013.

povol · Jul 28, 2012

Everyone here wants to love GP, but look around at the state of the sport and then ask your question. You have .... machines running with factory prototypes. You have the owner of the series making statements like " Im calm, Valentino will be on a competitive bike in 2013". I still cant beleive he was stupid enough to make that quote to the press. True or not true, if the appearance of inequity is there, it exists. You have 2 of the best riders in the world bailing on the series because they are sick of the ........ that oozes from every pore. You have rules changes a month before the season starts, wiping out a year and a halfs worth of development. Then you change the regs again a third of the way through the season.. Should i go on. I told anyone who would listen that Moto GP was headed for the abyss when they started dumbing down the sport. Only a few would listen. That few is multiplying like a virus as they come to the realization manipulated racing is NOT what they really want. For GP to save itself, it has to ween itself from Rossi, the sooner the better. They have to come to grips that GP may never see the good times of the last 12 years. It was a strange phenomonon where for some reason, a very large group of people became mesmerized by a clown. They really cant explain it themselves what happened, just got caught up in the cult. Once the trance had been broken, more and more started listening to the heretics [ non Rossi fans ] and realized what they had been watching for the last decade was a charade. Some got embarrassed and went away, some got angry and switched allegence, some said who cares, as long as my guy wins i dont care what you do with regulations. First and foremost, you fire Ezpeleta, the fan has lost confidence in him to run a racing series. Second, you let Rossi sink or swim on his own. We dont hate Moto GP, we hate what a select few are doing to it.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
True, but you must factor in the reason why Stoner will not be a motorcycle racer next year. If all of a sudden Dorna decided that it was to be all about English and German riders and all Spanish/Italian riders must go and they retired as a result before time, would it still be the best of the best?

If Dorna had promoted Stoner as something positive for MotoGP rather than the villain and detrimental to MotoGP I have no doubt that Stoner would still be racing in 2013.

Dorna have actively promoted British riders (there used to be a lot of complaints about the riders brought in). I have no doubt that Ezpeleta had a say in keeping Hayden at Ducati. Dorna have been very helpful towards Yonny Hernandez, because they really want a South American in the championship. Teams have been told (especially in Moto2, but also in MotoGP) that they needn't bother asking Dorna for money if they sign a Spanish or Italian rider.

Why are there so many Spanish riders in the championship? Because the Spanish federation put a program in place to bring riders on from a very young age. Dorna have leapt on that program and used it to feed non-Spanish riders through the system, and if you look at the Red Bull Rookies, there are a couple of fast Germans, a fast Dutch kid and a Czech rider who is currently being tipped as the next Rossi. The Italian Federation, after years of neglect, is starting to build a program, and we are seeing the effects with Fenati and Antonelli. Even the Dutch Federation now has a full program in place, the NSF100 Cup as a step up from minibikes, then the YZF125 cup as a cheap full-size class, followed by the Moriwaki cup for more serious riders. There is a full-time national roadracing coach (Barry Veneman), who spends time with all of the Dutch riders racing at the international level, with special attention to young riders. Expect to see Dutch riders coming through in the next 5 years (and things have been awful for the past 20).

The problem is for the Australians and Americans. Neither of those two countries have a plan, a system for taking young riders and coaching them all the way through to the Grand Prix level. American entries to the Red Bull Rookies have come and then gone back to the US, because it's cheaper to race there, and they don't have to live in Europe. Australians, too, come to Europe and race. Ironically (or not, perhaps) Jack Miller has done much better than Arthur Sissis, despite the fact that Sissis has Red Bull backing as a former RB Rookie. Miller came with his parents and raced wherever he could (sound familiar?).

Don't blame Dorna for the failings of your national federation.

Kropotkin · Jul 28, 2012

povol said:
I told anyone who would listen that Moto GP was headed for the abyss when they started dumbing down the sport.

They started dumbing down the sport in 1969, when they limited the number of gears and the number of cylinders. Or maybe even pre-war, when they banned supercharging.

Mental Anarchist · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
Dorna have actively promoted British riders (there used to be a lot of complaints about the riders brought in). I have no doubt that Ezpeleta had a say in keeping Hayden at Ducati. Dorna have been very helpful towards Yonny Hernandez, because they really want a South American in the championship. Teams have been told (especially in Moto2, but also in MotoGP) that they needn't bother asking Dorna for money if they sign a Spanish or Italian rider.

Why are there so many Spanish riders in the championship? Because the Spanish federation put a program in place to bring riders on from a very young age. Dorna have leapt on that program and used it to feed non-Spanish riders through the system, and if you look at the Red Bull Rookies, there are a couple of fast Germans, a fast Dutch kid and a Czech rider who is currently being tipped as the next Rossi. The Italian Federation, after years of neglect, is starting to build a program, and we are seeing the effects with Fenati and Antonelli. Even the Dutch Federation now has a full program in place, the NSF100 Cup as a step up from minibikes, then the YZF125 cup as a cheap full-size class, followed by the Moriwaki cup for more serious riders. There is a full-time national roadracing coach (Barry Veneman), who spends time with all of the Dutch riders racing at the international level, with special attention to young riders. Expect to see Dutch riders coming through in the next 5 years (and things have been awful for the past 20).

The problem is for the Australians and Americans. Neither of those two countries have a plan, a system for taking young riders and coaching them all the way through to the Grand Prix level. American entries to the Red Bull Rookies have come and then gone back to the US, because it's cheaper to race there, and they don't have to live in Europe. Australians, too, come to Europe and race. Ironically (or not, perhaps) Jack Miller has done much better than Arthur Sissis, despite the fact that Sissis has Red Bull backing as a former RB Rookie. Miller came with his parents and raced wherever he could (sound familiar?).

Don't blame Dorna for the failings of your national federation.

I agree with all that, but. There is a big difference from promoting riders into the series and promoting riders on to the best bikes.

I am surprised you would suggest the above is justification as you always look deeper than that. If Dorna was truly fair they would have said no to Honda and told them to put Bradl on the factory Honda. Bradl is world class and I declare it now, he will NEVER get a factory ride in MotoGP. The others you site will never get factory rides. Once Rossi is gone the earth will revolve around Marquez and the whole thing will just continue on in the contrived nature that it is now.

J4rn0 · Jul 28, 2012

Kropotkin said:
Dorna have actively promoted British riders (there used to be a lot of complaints about the riders brought in). I have no doubt that Ezpeleta had a say in keeping Hayden at Ducati. Dorna have been very helpful towards Yonny Hernandez, because they really want a South American in the championship. Teams have been told (especially in Moto2, but also in MotoGP) that they needn't bother asking Dorna for money if they sign a Spanish or Italian rider.

Why are there so many Spanish riders in the championship? Because the Spanish federation put a program in place to bring riders on from a very young age. Dorna have leapt on that program and used it to feed non-Spanish riders through the system, and if you look at the Red Bull Rookies, there are a couple of fast Germans, a fast Dutch kid and a Czech rider who is currently being tipped as the next Rossi. The Italian Federation, after years of neglect, is starting to build a program, and we are seeing the effects with Fenati and Antonelli. Even the Dutch Federation now has a full program in place, the NSF100 Cup as a step up from minibikes, then the YZF125 cup as a cheap full-size class, followed by the Moriwaki cup for more serious riders. There is a full-time national roadracing coach (Barry Veneman), who spends time with all of the Dutch riders racing at the international level, with special attention to young riders. Expect to see Dutch riders coming through in the next 5 years (and things have been awful for the past 20).

The problem is for the Australians and Americans. Neither of those two countries have a plan, a system for taking young riders and coaching them all the way through to the Grand Prix level. American entries to the Red Bull Rookies have come and then gone back to the US, because it's cheaper to race there, and they don't have to live in Europe. Australians, too, come to Europe and race. Ironically (or not, perhaps) Jack Miller has done much better than Arthur Sissis, despite the fact that Sissis has Red Bull backing as a former RB Rookie. Miller came with his parents and raced wherever he could (sound familiar?).

Don't blame Dorna for the failings of your national federation.

Nice to see common sense and knowledge visiting this forum now and then.

stnd · Jul 28, 2012

I think what you are seeing is a bunch of fans seeing their favourite rider(s) leaving (Ben / Stoner) and not knowing how to react other than to bash MotoGP. If those riders went to WSBK and a few other key riders (Dovi / Hayden) their hate would be justified (in their mind), even more so if MotoGP, Dorna and Ezpeleta became #2 to WSBK as a result or even folded all together.

That's it really.

I think the racing this year started a bit boring and have found Moto2 to be more exciting, likewise I have been following WSBK which is also exciting on track, however not off the track. Also this year for the first time in a long time WSBK has a Canadian rider which is very exciting for me as a Canadian, however, he was injured earlier in the season.

Why the hate for MotoGP?

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