Who won Suzuka 8 hours?

Segfault · Jul 30, 2019

Looking back to the events red flag handed victory to Kawasaki, if they opted for safety car instead Kawasaki would have been DNF. Once again, rules decided the outcome of the race. I personally prefer races where the best win, this wasn't the one.

Mick D · Jul 30, 2019

I had the luxury of watching the entire 8hrs... overall, one of the best live bike races I've ever watched.

But the last 5mins or so were surreal.

Personally I don't know FIM/WER rules well enough to comment on the final result's veracity.

As a reasonably well informed viewer, my live reaction was heartache for team WSBK Kawasaki, as they clearly deserved the win on the track, and, with rules layed out by the commentators, believed team Yamaha to be the rightful victors.

Turned out that the 5min rule does not apply in WER. Team Kawasaki reinstated as victors.

Many questions to be asked and answered to improve clarity (especially the validity of the 5min rule), and RD's handling of the late-race fluid spill.

Good read:
https://motomatters.com/blog_entry/2019/07/29/steve_english_suzuka_8_hours_blog_the.html

Segfault · Jul 31, 2019

Was there an oil flag for Rea to see? If there was then Rea's crash was his own fault and Kawasaki does not deserve this win.

Mick D · Jul 31, 2019

Segfault said:
Was there an oil flag for Rea to see? If there was then Rea's crash was his own fault and Kawasaki does not deserve this win.

I think they were waving yellows in the area hoping they could finish the race without safety car or red flag. It was dark, raining and oily at the time of Rea's crash... everyone seemed to be aware of the conditions.

There are many factors which can be blamed for the delay in calling the race final results. Ultimately they made the right call as the rules are written.

Team WSBK Kawasaki most certainly "deserved" the win.

Segfault · Jul 31, 2019

Conditions are the same for everyone. That's the idea of 8 hour race, it is not supposed to be a walk in the park. The winner is the racer who crosses the finish line first. This race was cut short and this handed the victory to a crashed team. No, I don't think rules should override common sense. We already have nonsense preferred over truth in politics, do we really need the same in sports?

yamfan · Jul 31, 2019

I totally agree buddy. It’s a bummer for Johnny Rea that he crashed out on another riders oil, (especially a rider who selfishly kept going with a blown motor for quite some time before stopping), but crash he did. Yes he and Haslam were the best out there, but when JR crashed he was out.
The safety car should have been deployed and a clean up commenced, even if the race did finish under safety car conditions. They threw the red flag just as Yamaha overtook to manipulate the outcome in my opinion.
However hard on team Kawasaki, the rightful winners were team Yamaha. This race should not have been decided in a closed office, had Yamaha not won it for so many consecutive years, I doubt the appeal to change it would have even been considered.

Mick D · Jul 31, 2019

Segfault said:
Conditions are the same for everyone. That's the idea of 8 hour race, it is not supposed to be a walk in the park. The winner is the racer who crosses the finish line first. This race was cut short and this handed the victory to a crashed team. No, I don't think rules should override common sense. We already have nonsense preferred over truth in politics, do we really need the same in sports?

Huh?

Every racing series in the world goes back to the standing on the previous lap if the race ends in a crash. What r u talkin’ about?

Rules for competition date back over 3500 years, at least... why you ask? Because “common sense” is subjective and a ........ way to normalize competition.

Mick D · Jul 31, 2019

yamfan said:
I totally agree buddy. It’s a bummer for Johnny Rea that he crashed out on another riders oil, (especially a rider who selfishly kept going with a blown motor for quite some time before stopping), but crash he did. Yes he and Haslam were the best out there, but when JR crashed he was out.
The safety car should have been deployed and a clean up commenced, even if the race did finish under safety car conditions. They threw the red flag just as Yamaha overtook to manipulate the outcome in my opinion.
However hard on team Kawasaki, the rightful winners were team Yamaha. This race should not have been decided in a closed office, had Yamaha not won it for so many consecutive years, I doubt the appeal to change it would have even been considered.

The challenge was ejudicated correctly based on the rules. The “rightful” winners won. Every racing series in the world goes back a lap if ending in a crash. Why is this an issue in this instance?

They finally threw up the red flag because the fluid on the track had caused a crash and they couldn’t ignore it anymore in the hopes of having a broadcast-friendly finish to the race.

yamfan · Jul 31, 2019

I get your point and you’re correct from the “rules” point of view mate. Look back to last year when fluid was spilled and poor JR crashed entering the pits as well as a few more. The safety car was deployed, marshals waved riders away from the affected areas as others cleaned the track, at no point was the race stopped due to crashed riders.
The reason this year why they threw the red flag is hence debatable given what happened last year. The fact it did stop the race and hand Kawasaki the win isn’t in dispute buddy, it’s whether the race should have continued under safety car conditions like last year. I get it the race was close to finishing but there’s differing views on it.
I think David Emmett has written a piece on it as well on similar lines. Not that I’m saying he’s the authority on it. [emoji1]
Ps there’s also the fact that JR didn’t get back to the pits, but apparently that rule is about the only one not in all other fim rule books, but may well be inserted before next years race.

Mick D · Jul 31, 2019

I think comparisons to short-track races is a red herring. They don’t race in the dark so there’s at least one factor they don’t have to consider...

I was fine with team Yamaha winning until I understood the rules. The only real debate here is why RD didn’t deploy yellows or SC after Suzuki’s unfortunate luck then stupidity.

Emmett just posted Ryder’s blog... the thoughts are Ryder’s.

Theo · Aug 1, 2019

As soon as they knew there was oil on the track, whoever was leaking should have been stopped and the leak cleaned up, imo racing like that is dangerous and stupid.

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