Which manufacturer would you most like to see enter/re-enter MotoGP?

Kropotkin said:

The rules are about as clear as a muddy situation can make them:



The chassis must be a prototype (actually, the wording is that the frame, tank, fairing and a few other parts from a road bike may not be used). There is no word on the provenance of the engines.



Norton will be back next year, as a factory team, with an FTR chassis an a V4 powerplant. Aprilia will not be allowed back into the GP paddock as a factory presence for the next 20-odd years, or at least as long as Ezpeleta is still running the show. KTM could come back, I've heard rumors to that effect. There could be a lot of badged CRT bikes (a bit like De Angelis running a Motobi, which is an ancient Italian brand), with BMW or Aprilia engines.

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was there a falling out between aprilia and ezpeleta?sorry to bother you but you're likely to be the most reliable source available to us

cliché guevara said:

was there a falling out between aprilia and ezpeleta?sorry to bother you but you're likely to be the most reliable source available to us

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As far as Dorna is concerned, Aprilia held the 250 and 125 classes to ransom, charging vast sums of money (a million euros, or what a CRT MotoGP bike will cost) for a factory RSA, and basically determining who would be world champion in the lower classes. Killing off the 250s and 125s was their way of getting rid of Aprilia. Aprilia now has WSBK to play with, so they're happy now too.

Kropotkin said:

As far as Dorna is concerned, Aprilia held the 250 and 125 classes to ransom, charging vast sums of money (a million euros, or what a CRT MotoGP bike will cost) for a factory RSA, and basically determining who would be world champion in the lower classes. Killing off the 250s and 125s was their way of getting rid of Aprilia. Aprilia now has WSBK to play with, so they're happy now too.

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what about the hondas and ktms? i thought especially honda were on par with aprilia since aoyama won the last 250 title

Nuts said:

Norton, MV Agusta (which is Harley anyway)

Imagine the cult following........

A Norton GP bike would have to be called a Manx, and the riders would have to be rough and wear black leathers (unshaven, whiskey drinkers, smoking unfiltered rolley cigerettes)



Sadly, neither will ever be involved in MotoGP, other than as a namesake only, unless someone comes along with a lot of passion, and very deep pockets.

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Keep up at the back Harley sold MV back to the Castiglioni family, who were the owners when Harley bought MV in 2008, in August last year. See story on Visordown



Norton are apparently coming back as a factory team next year with a V4 engine developed by Pr1mo, but as you say, sadly there will be no JPS colour scheme

Mental Anarchist said:

I am not sure you are correct but I totally respect your knowledge so I will ask for someone with more knowledge than me to give us some decisive answers. Krop?

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Manufacturers can supply CRT teams since Suter will be selling Moto1's to CRTs; however, you may ultimately be right about the F4RR variant. The VIN numbers are probably what matter. No idea whether they will let a bike with VIN numbers race in MotoGP.



Here's the really difficult question though. If MV race prep a Superbike-version (race-only, not street legal) and they pull the frames off the assembly line before they get etched, will it be legal since the F4RR is not homologated in WSBK?



I wonder if Dorna even know the answer.

[quote name='mylexicon' timestamp='1306770703' post='280667'



I wonder if Dorna even know the answer.

[/quote]



i bet the flammini bros do





i'd welcome bmw to gps, but thats only because i'm passionate about their magnificant road vehicles and i have a thing for boxer engines of all sorts, but sadly we will never see boxer engines in gps

Motoczysz.

Kawasaki

lil red rocket pilot said:

Im sure I read in the mcn that norton are coming into gp next year

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And hopefully they have something more than a pushrod twin -



and learn from history after they stuck to the good old Manx for too long whenever everyone else was building twins, four and sixes, but then again they didn't have any money

BarryMachine said:

If Mgp is to survive, I was kinda assuming the next influx of manufacturers would come from the place that is like Japan was of yore when Honda Suzuki etc. where just coming in. That next place is China and Korea etc. ie. Mainland Asia.



So if gas bikes will persist, and electro's take a whileto get going, we may see the Hyosungs, Daelims and CTmoto types coming in ....... oh and "Thaiumph" or is it "Taiwumph"? .... they are just made in Thailand or Taiwan anyway aren't they?



If electro's come in ....... I think China will be the next Japan.

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Not sure if I see Asian bikes other than from Japan coming to MotoGP - ImO the Chinese and Korean manufacturers are more concerned with penetrating the low end - low tech cheap transportation market. Driving around at the back of the pack in MotoGp won't help them in that area.



I'd say Electro bikes have up to another 5 years to develop - smaller and more durable batteries - before they become (if ever) serious competition - not sure how racing motoGp fits into the entire ecology thing. With Electros a whole new set of qualifying specs would be needed and rather than this I'd rather see the Norton Rotaries back on the grid



Triumph being made in Thailand, Taiwan is new for me - not quite sure how you back up that claim - although I don't doubt that Triumph like most automotive manufacturers use a lot af far eastern components. Also the thread opened with "return" to MotoGP - I believe if Triumph were to take the step to MotoGp - it would be a premiere & not a return. Coventry and Meriden Triumphs did compete in a number of selected races, but I don't think they ever had an official factory team in the 500cc class or anything that came after it leading to today's MotoGP

ptk50 said:

Triumph being made in Thailand, Taiwan is new for me - not quite sure how you back up that claim

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Triumph own a factory in Thailand. In fact (though I'm too lazy to google it) you can find it just east of Bangkok on Google Maps.

ptk50 said:

I'd say Electro bikes have up to another 5 years to develop - smaller and more durable batteries - before they become (if ever) serious competition -

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What is that estimate based on?

ptk50 said:

And hopefully they have something more than a pushrod twin -



and learn from history after they stuck to the good old Manx for too long whenever everyone else was building twins, four and sixes, but then again they didn't have any money

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Yeah they've got a v4 powerplant in a FTR chassis

lil red rocket pilot said:

Yeah they've got a v4 powerplant in a FTR chassis

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Where did you find this out? I recall reading it too, but i can't for the life of me recall who's building the engine. I know it's a third party concern in the uk but i'm not sure who

yamaka46 said:

Keep up at the back

Harley sold MV back to the Castiglioni family, who were the owners when Harley bought MV in 2008, in August last year. See story on Visordown



Norton are apparently coming back as a factory team next year with a V4 engine developed by Pr1mo, but as you say, sadly there will be no JPS colour scheme

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ptk50 said:

And hopefully they have something more than a pushrod twin -



and learn from history after they stuck to the good old Manx for too long whenever everyone else was building twins, four and sixes, but then again they didn't have any money

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Tom said:

Where did you find this out? I recall reading it too, but i can't for the life of me recall who's building the engine. I know it's a third party concern in the uk but i'm not sure who

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More peeps not paying attention - note the timestamps. There's even a linky to the engine builder's site



Or maybe you all have me on ignore

Tom said:

What is that estimate based on?

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Based on guess, hope and some speculation

1st up:

Subjectively - I just don't like them

Plus

I'm not sure about the final ecological advantages of electric battery driven vehicles - whar happens with "old" batteries, what is ecological impact of generating more electricity to power them - atomic, water, coal or diesel turbines??

Electro-bikes have made big advances in the last 2 to 3 years, but I don't see a significant degree of adoption, which leads me to think that the pace development will not accelerate - so add same to get battery sizes down, duration up and pricing acceptable

On the other side I anticipate major push back from the ICE powered manufacturers combined with at least a couple of years from DORNa or whoever will set the participation rules

lil red rocket pilot said:

Yeah they've got a v4 powerplant in a FTR chassis

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Thanks - and best of luck to Norton - that would be great to see

Kropotkin said:

Triumph own a factory in Thailand. In fact (though I'm too lazy to google it) you can find it just east of Bangkok on Google Maps.

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You are absolutely right:



From the web



"Here's the facts:



Triumph Motorcycles (Thailand) Limited



Address: Amata Nakorn Industrial Estate

700/485 Moo 2

Bankao, Panthong

City: Chonburi

Post Code: 20160

Country: Thailand



Background

Triumph Motorcycles (Thailand) Limited are a 100% UK owned company that currently operate 3 factories in Amata Nakorn Industrial Estate, Chonburi. Triumph's first factory in Thailand was opened in May 2002 and was established for the manufacture of motorcycle components including Frames, Fuel Tanks, Header Systems, Swinging Arms, Engine Covers and Chrome Plated Parts. A second factory was opened in 2006 where a wet painting facility and assembly line have been established. A third factory, opened in 2007 includes high pressure diecasting and machining. The company now employs approximately 800 staff in Thailand.



Products or Services

Production of motorcycle components and assembly of motorcycles for export markets. Processes include; Aluminium & Steel welding, CNC Machining, Laser Cutting, Polishing, Chrome Plating, Powder Coating, Wet Painting and Assembly.



and from Wiki



At 21.00 on 15 March 2002, as the company was preparing to celebrate its 100th anniversary as a motorcycle maker, its main factory was destroyed by a fire which began at the rear of the facility. At the height of the blaze over 100 firefighters were tackling the fire which destroyed most of the manufacturing capacity.[9]



Nevertheless, the company, which by then employed more than 650, quickly rebuilt the facility and returned to production by September that year. Furthermore, in 2003, Triumph opened a new manufacturing facility in Thailand. An assembly and painting facility in Thailand was opened in 2006 by Prince Andrew.[10] In September 2008, Triumph announced that they were expanding their Thailand factory to increase capacity to over 130,000 motorcycles.[11] "



So it looks like they have about 60% of their worldwide employees in Thailand. I would still argue that the Triumph is a British bike through design and development - taking advantage of lower paid, but skilled labour. Back to the theme of the thread - ImO it would be great to see thim in MotoGP, but I,m not going to hold my breath on Triumph taking that step.

Tom said:

Where did you find this out? I recall reading it too, but i can't for the life of me recall who's building the engine. I know it's a third party concern in the uk but i'm not sure who

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I read it in the MCN some weeks poss months ago. See Yamaka46's post above

Thaiumph it is then .......... ( it was a question PT ) ....... I was not sure of the exact location ( Thailand or Taiwan ) as I am not a "modern" Triumph fan and was allowing my nonchalance, about the brand, influence my post.



Thaiumph or Norton etc. coming back is just "feelgood", MGP has always been "evolution", so I'd think those brands have long seen their day, and it may well be that we are seeing the extinction of the japanese manufacturers.



Where once the Japanese manufacturers were:

ptk50 said:

more concerned with penetrating the low end - low tech cheap transportation market.

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and they have evolved from that.



They may soon be outpriced into extinction.

BarryMachine said:

Thaiumph it is then .......... ( it was a question PT

) ....... I was not sure of the exact location ( Thailand or Taiwan ) as I am not a "modern" Triumph fan and was allowing my nonchalance, about the brand, influence my post.

Thaiumph or Norton etc. coming back is just "feelgood", MGP has always been "evolution", so I'd think those brands have long seen their day, and it may well be that we are seeing the extinction of the japanese manufacturers.Where once the Japanese manufacturers were:







and they have evolved from that.



They may soon be outpriced into extinction.

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"Thaiumph" - thx for wakening me up - I hadn't been following their move east - but I still contend it is a british (sort of european) bike by design and development - benefitting from skilled and less unionized (aka less costly) labour



"Japanese heading for extinction?????????????"



hmmmm - but then again 11 of the 17 bikes on the already very meagre grid are japanese - and they dominate the pointy end of the race - plus - all the engines in moto2 are honda - so I don't really see them going into extinction for a while. unless the japanese manufacturers just say wtf - like honda did in wsbk - and universally pull out of motogp