Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
You had been on a roll till this. distributing weight around the bike is a whole lot different than plopping 9lbs in the seat
You had been on a roll till this. distributing weight around the bike is a whole lot different than plopping 9lbs in the seat
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
His hatred for all things Rossi has a 5-year headstart on CRT's
Back to more intelligent discussion, Casey is just bitching about CRT's again a little more indirectly now, of course he is not going to be happy if any of his advantages are removed, Casey doesn't care who watches the sport or where the money comes from-all he cares about is winning by the greatest possible margin-which in a sense is admirable. Luckily most feel the opposite.
Honda and Yamaha, especially Yamaha did not oppose the weight restriction because they need their bikes on screen to as many viewers as possible (winning preferably but or not essential-that's the game these days)- in 2011 those viewing numbers decreased alarmingly-something has to be done to improve the competition and the spectacle in order to pay the bills, their sponsors demand it-and Yamaha is a classic case of what happens when this can't be delivered. No one is going to continue to pay for all of this wizz-bang technology if its as boring to watch as 2011-simple.
Dorna have 5-6 riders in Motogp capable of fighting it out every round if their machinery is at a similar level, Dorna are trying to ensure that this scenario has the best possible chance of happening. IMO there is nothing wrong with Dorna trying to prevent Honda from outspending their way to another title, especially when the paying public is switching off and walking away. I say good on them for trying to save the sport, we spend a lot of time ridiculing the powers that be, but for once they are seriously addressing the issues and even more impressive, they are admitting that the whole 800cc era was a balls up.
The bikes should fall into a class of weight and power that is more user friendly to a wider range of rider in order for different physical attributes to be allowed to thrive and greatly increase the chance of fairer, closer competition, not equal---fair. The 800cc era was heavily dominated by very small, very light riders, Rossi being the only exception, the combination of fuel limit, higher corner speed, smaller machines/fairings and peaky power delivery all lead to the inevitable results-All larger riders that were there in the 990 era lost loads of weight in order to compete on the 800's-this is fact- a simple look at Nicky and Rossi in 2006 compared with last season highlights this. The CRT formula in essence can address this, along with the more important cost issue. And adding weight and more power to the bikes is a masterstroke IMO. Hopefully it will have the desired effect.
This series needs to move with the times, it needs to adjust and attempt to fix its flaws. So far they are doing well and are at least reacting to the issues..........now Ezy about those Tires and fuel limit.......
The whole idea of the series is to create advantages. Of course people are going to be pissed when you regulate their creativity that is responsible for that advantage. God forbid someone out think or out work someone else these days.
His hatred for all things Rossi has a 5-year headstart on CRT's
Back to more intelligent discussion, Casey is just bitching about CRT's again a little more indirectly now, of course he is not going to be happy if any of his advantages are removed, Casey doesn't care who watches the sport or where the money comes from-all he cares about is winning by the greatest possible margin-which in a sense is admirable. Luckily most feel the opposite.
Honda and Yamaha, especially Yamaha did not oppose the weight restriction because they need their bikes on screen to as many viewers as possible (winning preferably but or not essential-that's the game these days)- in 2011 those viewing numbers decreased alarmingly-something has to be done to improve the competition and the spectacle in order to pay the bills, their sponsors demand it-and Yamaha is a classic case of what happens when this can't be delivered. No one is going to continue to pay for all of this wizz-bang technology if its as boring to watch as 2011-simple.
Dorna have 5-6 riders in Motogp capable of fighting it out every round if their machinery is at a similar level, Dorna are trying to ensure that this scenario has the best possible chance of happening. IMO there is nothing wrong with Dorna trying to prevent Honda from outspending their way to another title, especially when the paying public is switching off and walking away. I say good on them for trying to save the sport, we spend a lot of time ridiculing the powers that be, but for once they are seriously addressing the issues and even more impressive, they are admitting that the whole 800cc era was a balls up.
The bikes should fall into a class of weight and power that is more user friendly to a wider range of rider in order for different physical attributes to be allowed to thrive and greatly increase the chance of fairer, closer competition, not equal---fair. The 800cc era was heavily dominated by very small, very light riders, Rossi being the only exception, the combination of fuel limit, higher corner speed, smaller machines/fairings and peaky power delivery all lead to the inevitable results-All larger riders that were there in the 990 era lost loads of weight in order to compete on the 800's-this is fact- a simple look at Nicky and Rossi in 2006 compared with last season highlights this. The CRT formula in essence can address this, along with the more important cost issue. And adding weight and more power to the bikes is a masterstroke IMO. Hopefully it will have the desired effect.
This series needs to move with the times, it needs to adjust and attempt to fix its flaws. So far they are doing well and are at least reacting to the issues..........now Ezy about those Tires and fuel limit.......
Hey its Talpa the $400 Million budget Man...let me guess all would be ok and right with world if it was Valentino and Ducati winning right. All Casey has done is given his opinion on the new weight increase, and how it will affect him and as usual he is bitching again. Im sure this thread will be atleast 20 pages long...
Yes, I agree, I don't think a few kg would necessarily make much difference designed into a bike from the start, but having to add it to a previously designed bike might well have a negative effect; I remember the thing about them moving the fuel tank 1cm on one of the 500 hondas. It shouldn't make any difference to stoner though, he just rides the things doesn't he?, and doesn't worry about developing or sorting them.
It makes sense this is related to the CRTs, taking weight off does tend to be expensive. There is certainly no shortage of trade-offs at the moment, with the very continuation of motogp as a prototype series with manufacturer involvement on the table. I also think honda and yamaha know ducati's survival is critical to the survival of the sport in any form acceptable to them, and have already shown a willingness to accommodate them with the change to the testing rules anyway.
Having to re-sort the bike/previous work being wasted because of an arbitrary change would I imagine be frustrating, particularly to some-one with an obssessive mind-set, which stoner for good or ill seems to have.
This is my point exactly, no one cares how much any factory spends on racing. They do it because they can afford it. They were all warned to make the bikes cheaper so the grid could be filled. non of them bothered to make the bikes cheaper and we have expensive 2nd tier bikes that will hardly ever see a podium, so Dorna decided to make the 2nd tier bikes less expensive. If they aren't going to be able to get on the podium they might as well be cheaper.
I don't feel sorry for any factory and especially not Honda who couldn't even supply engines for the price of an entire CRT bike.
The bikes are in a continuous state of development, Do you seriously think Honda isn't going to pull out about 4 or 5 chassis for this season and a multitude of swingarms and clutches, electronics updates. It's not like the rule changed and they are forced to use the bike they tested for the entire season. Jlo and Casey both broke their track records on bikes that were 8lbs heavier and riding on new tires, I don't see a reason to be concerned about the new rules yet.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
His hatred for all things Rossi has a 5-year headstart on CRT's
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
hahaha, good one. Pov, he got you there man. haha
I truely hate the idea of CRT, i dont hate Rossi, i hate that Dorna took a very good rider and enhanced his career at the expense of others, What i dislike about Rossi is that he started beleiving all of the incredible .... they were saying about him. Oh, and his fans that beleived the incredible .... more than Rossi himself are high on my list as well. But nothing, and i mean nothing, matches my hate for Carmelo's vision for Moto GP.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Well I was kinda hoping the extra 9lbs would not go straight to my arse!!
Surely you don't believe that Pov.? I don't know anyone who rides a bike with their arse!!
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Well I was kinda hoping the extra 9lbs would not go straight to my arse!!
Surely you don't believe that Pov.? I don't know anyone who rides a bike with their arse!!
Regardless of where you put it on, its going to be centralized in the general location of your arse when on a bike.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Regardless of where you put it on, its going to be centralized in the general location of your arse when on a bike.
No, I'm saying it won't Pov, I doubt many GP riders spend a lot of time on their arse. They have hands, forearms, elbows, knees, thighs, feet. toes, all of which distribute weight depending on what they are doing..
Why pick the arse? Personally I'd go for Cankles? is it ? where folk get fat ankles
Honda got ride by wire for WSBK. Ducati got 6kg extra minimum weight in WSBK.
These guys are constantly screwing with one another and making under-the-table deals. We will probably never know what horsetrading goes on.
These guys are constantly screwing with one another and making under-the-table deals. We will probably never know what horsetrading goes on.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Regardless of where you put it on, its going to be centralized in the general location of your arse when on a bike.
There's a bad joke about depleted uranium penetrators in here somewhere...
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Reading between the lines it seems this rule was enforced by a Ducati "nay" in the MSMA vote.....
"There was a proposal made by Dorna and IRTA, for the Valencia Grand Prix Commission meeting, to raise the minimum weight to 160kg," said Ezpeleta. "Because it was difficult and expensive for the CRT [privateer] bikes to reduce their weight. So if everybody is able to run the same minimum weight that would help CRT.
"We proposed the weight increase, but the MSMA said that the unanimous decision of the MSMA is against it. If the MSMA decision is unanimous [the Grand Prix Commission] cannot approve the rule, because it is a technical rule.
"Later on when the minutes arrived, [it turned out] that it was not unanimous. It was by majority. If the opposition of the MSMA is not unanimous we have no obligation to follow that.
"Then at the meeting of the Grand Prix Commission in December we said 'I'm sorry, the other day we had a misunderstanding about whether the MSMA decision was unanimous. I consider if it is not unanimous we have the right to impose that.'
"Finally instead of 160kg we requested 157kg [for 2012] and this was approved, by majority of the Grand Prix Commission."
Stench indeed.......Honda and Yamaha would be disadvantaged moreso than Ducati in this instance since they had designed their bikes with the previous 154 kg weight limit....thats at least three rule changes applied so far before this season starts that benefit Ducati/Rossi more than the other two factories....is this yet another coincidence? Maybe.......
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
for sure this plays right into the hands of ducati but thats just collateral damage for the sake of crts
i would not be surprised if the minimum weight would be raised to 160-165kg in the next couple of years.
i guess the same goes for the tyres, indeed many riders expressed concern that indicated that the tyres should warm up quicker which means soften them up
i would not be surprised if the minimum weight would be raised to 160-165kg in the next couple of years.
i guess the same goes for the tyres, indeed many riders expressed concern that indicated that the tyres should warm up quicker which means soften them up
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
what i don't understand is why rules are changed every season and on such short notice, thats hardly in the sense of limiting cost
i don't understand why there is a new formula for 2012 when the sport is to dramatically change with spec ecus and other performance limiting measures to cut costs in 2013
i don't understand why there is a new formula for 2012 when the sport is to dramatically change with spec ecus and other performance limiting measures to cut costs in 2013
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
I just don't understand the urge to pork up the bikes. If the CRT bikes are too heavy, too bad. If they whine too loudly, give 'em another liter of gas to compensate and tell them to get on with it.
It seems there's a safety aspect too. Most of the recent severe injuries and fatalities in the sport have occurred when a fallen rider was struck by another bike. 10 pounds probably isn't going to make a huge difference in this regard, but which would YOU rather be run over by, a ZX-6, or a Goldwing? If they get up to ~165kg, a 4 cyl. bikes' minimum weight will have increased by 40 pounds!! since 2002. That's not right.
It seems there's a safety aspect too. Most of the recent severe injuries and fatalities in the sport have occurred when a fallen rider was struck by another bike. 10 pounds probably isn't going to make a huge difference in this regard, but which would YOU rather be run over by, a ZX-6, or a Goldwing? If they get up to ~165kg, a 4 cyl. bikes' minimum weight will have increased by 40 pounds!! since 2002. That's not right.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
So, did Ducati vote yea while surrounded by fellow MSMA members, then tell Dorna they really voted nay to sabotage the agreement. Or did the MSMA lie when they told Dorna it was a unanimous vote. Something isnt right here. Knowing their history when it comes to tech regs, i wouldnt doubt Ducati backdoored the MSMA.
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!
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