Westy the next one out of GP?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 16 2008, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not plans, just photos - there just has to be something the green team can do.

It also occurred to me in a blinding moment of clarity that there was talk earlier of running a three-bike team for Kawasaki (when Marco comes on board - that is the big question I guess).

With three riders developing they have someone in reserve when Hopper throws it down and has some time off and leaves everything to the hapless Westy.

Or it may be a case of "all of us are dumber than any of us" and they still go backwards.
aint going to do them much good. remember the yam is the only straight 4 engined bike on the grid the rest are v's and if you look at vales bike compared to lorenzos the wheel base/rake ect is totally different. what kwak need to do is field more bikes and spend more money on r&d photo's are worthless to them imo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>remember the yam is the only straight 4 engined bike on the grid the rest are v's .

is the kawasaki not a sraight-4 as well? hence the tie in with yamaha photos and not ducati or honda?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>aint going to do them much good. remember the yam is the only straight 4 engined bike on the grid the rest are v's and if you look at vales bike compared to lorenzos the wheel base/rake ect is totally different. what kwak need to do is field more bikes and spend more money on r&d photo's are worthless to them imo.

I thought the Kawasaki was straight 4 as well. I don't claim expertise in this matter, I was referring to the all rounder platform that Yamaha is, Bridgestone and Michelin have won on it and it is the only other straight 4 manufacturer (I believe) and the only manufacturer to put 3 bikes on a podium this year.

Taking plans is a breach of intellectual property law and a host of other things, examining the technical concepts by a photo and attempting to emulate a basic design but not make a mirror image (given that no aspect of the Yamaha is completely new or novel) is completely legal and would give them better direction, although as soon as hopper returned and began directing things westie was able to manage a top 5 finish – he was asking Spies how to set it up at Laguna (he should buy Hopper a carton for Brno)

That said the basic intent of my post is to say that Kawasaki should focus on what is working for others riding similar platforms given they had at that time lost their direction. When I say “there just has to be something the green team can do” I am lamenting that lack of direction. The whole problem with "spending the money" is knowing what to spend it on. Ilmor and Aprilia spent a lot of money but didn't know what to spend it on and subsequently failed.

Remember the America Cup in 1983, Australia II (the yacht) with its winged keel broke the 132 year strangle hold that the USA had on the cup. Everyone tried to copy the Australian design but got in strife for it, but as soon as some engineer went “we have the basic idea and we can build our own” everybody had them. It’s about getting the idea for a successful platform then building your own – engineering history is full of it, the modern nation of Japan was built on it and it’s (mostly) perfectly legal.

See how they go at the next race because the point may be moot if the results begin to come.

i stand corrected. the kwak is also an inline 4.

link

i quoted off what eurosport said a while back, ....... pillocks.

Cheers, I'm good with that.

I also think that Westie answered the question - who is the worst?

They are as bad (or good) as each other.

A good bike can perform and a rider can be motivated on a reasonable platform.

5th sort of gives him a decent shot at redemption and that god horrible green beast as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 18 2008, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheers, I'm good with that.

I also think that Westie answered the question - who is the worst?

They are as bad (or good) as each other.

A good bike can perform and a rider can be motivated on a reasonable platform.

5th sort of gives him a decent shot at redemption and that god horrible green beast as well.


I think Westy can take a lot of good out of Sundays race.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 18 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think your right. I know he is a decent rider and for some reason he really has struggled. I have said it a bunch of times but it really is his first full year in motogp so come on give him a little slack. .... look at some of the guys that have been there for years and just take up space on the grid.


I think West is much better than the bike. The way most of you are looking at it's the riders fault the Kawasaki is not at the front. Even Rossi has proved he needs a good bike to win, let alone win titles. So if thats the case then Melandri is the worst rider in MotoGP given his team mate is at the other end of the grid winning. The scarey thing to that is Kawasaki is about to sign him.

i don't get why you people think West should get another shot or this and that. Is it becaue you feel sympathy for the guy? is it because you like rooting for the underachieving racer? i don't mean to sound so brutal but the guy has done nothing special in his career to warrant a place on the Moto GP grid. Everyone's got talent when they can ride a 200 plus horsepower beast of a machine... but we're talking the cream of the crop here guys, or did you all forget that MotoGP is the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing? Only the most deserving should get a shot at it, you either got it or you don't. He had his chance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 19 2008, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't get why you people think West should get another shot or this and that. Is it becaue you feel sympathy for the guy? is it because you like rooting for the underachieving racer? i don't mean to sound so brutal but the guy has done nothing special in his career to warrant a place on the Moto GP grid. Everyone's got talent when they can ride a 200 plus horsepower beast of a machine... but we're talking the cream of the crop here guys, or did you all forget that MotoGP is the pinnacle of 2 wheel racing? Only the most deserving should get a shot at it, you either got it or you don't. He had his chance.


Thats the point. Even the cream on a crap bike can look crap. At some point people need to look at the bike they are riding. Eg in case of another rider...Nakano, give him a full HRC bike and all of a sudden he does Ok. All we are saying is West on a Fiat Yamaha would be a very different rider to what we are seeing now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 19 2008, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah so if we go by your reasonung Shitya should be out with the garbage long ago.

ok.... tell me this then, why does Shinya always outperform his team mates throughout his career? and if you want to talk about his team mate Oliver Jacque then we can, in only his second year in 250cc Shinya came in second only behind the Champion Jacque who was way more expierenced then he is by ONLY 7 points. But who went on and achieved more success after that??? Tell me... what have West done with his motorcycling career??? He did absolutely nothing. You all just pity the guy cuz he is an underachiever who luckily made it into MotoGP and that gives you wannabe Moto GP guys a chance to dream. Like i said, i'm not trying to be an ... but shiit...this is Moto GP, i want to see the best of the best go at it.... that's it. Save your sympathy for those homeless hungry kids,, i'm sure West will survive without a ride in MotoGP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 20 2008, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok.... tell me this then, why does Shinya always outperform his team mates throughout his career? and if you want to talk about his team mate Oliver Jacque then we can, in only his second year in 250cc Shinya came in second only behind the Champion Jacque who was way more expierenced then he is by ONLY 7 points. But who went on and achieved more success after that??? Tell me... what have West done with his motorcycling career??? He did absolutely nothing. You all just pity the guy cuz he is an underachiever who luckily made it into MotoGP and that gives you wannabe Moto GP guys a chance to dream. Like i said, i'm not trying to be an ... but shiit...this is Moto GP, i want to see the best of the best go at it.... that's it. Save your sympathy for those homeless hungry kids,, i'm sure West will survive without a ride in MotoGP.

Well, where do we go from here. This is not a love fest for Westy BUT Nakano has had the support of Japan behind him all his career and I mean by that the support of the motorcycle factories as hoping to be the next big thing for Japan. You tell me what has he done in a career on factory equipment...nothing really. West has had "no" factory support pretty much all his career and still managed to win in 250 and was on the podium numerous times also. It's narrow minded to blame the rider and say he's no good and should not be in MotoGP cause if that was the case your man Nakano should not be there either....he might do better in BSB. In the case of Kawasaki it's cheaper to take out West than make the bike better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Aug 19 2008, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, where do we go from here. This is not a love fest for Westy BUT Nakano has had the support of Japan behind him all his career and I mean by that the support of the motorcycle factories as hoping to be the next big thing for Japan. You tell me what has he done in a career on factory equipment...nothing really. West has had "no" factory support pretty much all his career and still managed to win in 250 and was on the podium numerous times also. It's narrow minded to blame the rider and say he's no good and should not be in MotoGP cause if that was the case your man Nakano should not be there either....he might do better in BSB. In the case of Kawasaki it's cheaper to take out West than make the bike better.

Ok....Nakano never recieved full factory support in his career OTHER than crappy Kawasaki. Even then he managed to place podium twice a 2nd and 3rd. Not only podium finishes he went beyond what was expected of that ...... Kawasaki bike and qualified way better than he really should, of course racing is a different story but still he managed to do better than what was expected of the bike. Kawasaki was making alot of gains with developing the bike because of Nakano, and after he left.... the bike went down the ........ Let's just wait and see what happens from now on since he will be on the factory bike. Like i said, nothing against West... but there are tons of guys waiting for their chance to make it to the big show, he had his chance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 20 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok....Nakano never recieved full factory support in his career OTHER than crappy Kawasaki. Even then he managed to place podium twice a 2nd and 3rd. Not only podium finishes he went beyond what was expected of that ...... Kawasaki bike and qualified way better than he really should, of course racing is a different story but still he managed to do better than what was expected of the bike. Kawasaki was making alot of gains with developing the bike because of Nakano, and after he left.... the bike went down the ........ Let's just wait and see what happens from now on since he will be on the factory bike. Like i said, nothing against West... but there are tons of guys waiting for their chance to make it to the big show, he had his chance.


Your a hard person to please when he's only had 12 months to learn the bike. You must use the John Kocinski theory, if you have not won the title in 3 years your crap and should not be there. Going by your theory Rossi, Stoner and Hayden will be the only guys of the current crop of riders on the grid next year as everyone else has had there chance. Bring on 2009. Who do you want to be riding Nakano's bike next year....Corsi ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Aug 19 2008, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your a hard person to please when he's only had 12 months to learn the bike. You must use the John Kocinski theory, if you have not won the title in 3 years your crap and should not be there. Going by your theory Rossi, Stoner and Hayden will be the only guys of the current crop of riders on the grid next year as everyone else has had there chance. Bring on 2009. Who do you want to be riding Nakano's bike next year....Corsi ?

I'm not saying that at all. What i'm saying is there's a long list of racers waiting to see you fail and take your place on the MotoGP grid. What you can show is steady improvement and POTENTIAL... that is what teams are looking for. You have to go beyond the teams expectation to even have a chance at a ride in Moto GP, if not then buh-bye. Come on you guys,, we all know racing is a cut throat sport, as well it should be. This is competition at it's finest....only the strong survive, THAT is racing. No sympathy, no if only this would of happen, if only that would of happen.... you only get one shot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 20 2008, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying that at all. What i'm saying is there's a long list of racers waiting to see you fail and take your place on the MotoGP grid. What you can show is steady improvement and POTENTIAL... that is what teams are looking for. You have to go beyond the teams expectation to even have a chance at a ride in Moto GP, if not then buh-bye. Come on you guys,, we all know racing is a cut throat sport, as well it should be. This is competition at it's finest....only the strong survive, THAT is racing. No sympathy, no if only this would of happen, if only that would of happen.... you only get one shot.


Come on....only getting one shot. If only.....

This depends on nationality and how much money you can bring to a team also. There are many riders who are assisted by this and are still racing even though they never get the results. It's a romantic idea that you get one shot but not what really happening.

I would love to see Motogp where riders are there because they are the very best, but this not the case. If it was the grid would look very different.

Westy is gone. In my somewhat ambulatory and fanciful daydreams i would like to see the bike improve enough by the season end and then one good wet soak the arse off everyone race.

In QP at Brno the wetter it got the better Westy got. Get the bike to work then bring on the downpour just so he can ad "motogp race winner" to his curriculum vitae when he goes back to WSS where he will win a title because he's head and shoulders above that crowd.

Ultimately Westy is a SBK rider who just chased the wrong dream

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 19 2008, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Westy is gone. In my somewhat ambulatory and fanciful daydreams i would like to see the bike improve enough by the season end and then one good wet soak the arse off everyone race.

In QP at Brno the wetter it got the better Westy got. Get the bike to work then bring on the downpour just so he can ad "motogp race winner" to his curriculum vitae when he goes back to WSS where he will win a title because he's head and shoulders above that crowd.

Ultimately Westy is a SBK rider who just chased the wrong dream

Don't feel bad for West, the guy was living his dream. Just imagine how many people would wish just to have a shot at MotoGP. He gave it his all...and that's all you CAN do.

I'd like to see Westy finish off his career at kawasaki with a few more good results - even a podium, if things went his way. He's finished at kawasaki, and most probably with the grand prix circuit. I'd really love to see him in WSBK where I think, if he gets a decent ride he can do well.