Watching 990 era during the break before Estoril

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Duc999

Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
662
Location
In my home
I've watched most of the 990 races in the lull before Estoril. The Big Bikes hands down provided more excitement. Excellent racing and just all around great battles throughout the entire field.

I really hope the claiming rules/1000cc era brings back the full grids. I think in 2003 there were 9 Japanese riders on the grid - not gap fillers but straight competitive riders. Not to mention

Bayliss, Xaus, Hodgson, McCoy and the like. The creme de la creme of both superbikes and Motogp together. Sponsors all over the map as well - with 4 abreast and 5 to 6 rows of bikes.



Here's to hoping to see KRSR come back, WCM, Fortuna, Konica/Minolta, Telefonica Movistar etc.

Hell Kawasaki should build 6 Hayate's (bump up their displacement) and lease them.



Or each of the factories should lease their 2 year old bikes. 2 year old bikes will not leak any new innovation to the other factories.

Come on Dorna/FIM etc.. Bring back the enjoyment.



come on 2012
 
Ah the good ol days
<
terrible I could go back further
<
 
Duc999 said:
I've watched most of the 990 races in the lull before Estoril. The Big Bikes hands down provided more excitement. Excellent racing and just all around great battles throughout the entire field.

I really hope the claiming rules/1000cc era brings back the full grids. I think in 2003 there were 9 Japanese riders on the grid - not gap fillers but straight competitive riders. Not to mention

Bayliss, Xaus, Hodgson, McCoy and the like. The creme de la creme of both superbikes and Motogp together. Sponsors all over the map as well - with 4 abreast and 5 to 6 rows of bikes.



Here's to hoping to see KRSR come back, WCM, Fortuna, Konica/Minolta, Telefonica Movistar etc.

Hell Kawasaki should build 6 Hayate's (bump up their displacement) and lease them.



Or each of the factories should lease their 2 year old bikes. 2 year old bikes will not leak any new innovation to the other factories.

Come on Dorna/FIM etc.. Bring back the enjoyment.



come on 2012
Click to expand...



You never know. The 990s were 22L with spring valves are relatively primitive fuel computers. The 1000s are 21L, but they have bore restrictions, better tires, pneumatic valves (for all Japanese bikes) and advanced fuel computers. Maybe it will look a bit more like the 990s.



I'm don't know about the return of small manufacturers or sponsors, but the 1000cc switch could be good for IRTA. The sidewall area will increase so the new engines may be able to dissipate heat more efficiently while operating at a lower rev ceiling. IRTA currently pays for a lease with at least 6 engines per season per bike. How much money do they save if they can make it through the season on 3 engines? I really don't know b/c there is so much going on inside the engine with piston rings and stroke/rod ratios etc. I have no idea, but on the surface, it appears IRTA may save a lot of cash on engines.
 
Duc999 said:
I've watched most of the 990 races in the lull before Estoril. The Big Bikes hands down provided more excitement. Excellent racing and just all around great battles throughout the entire field.

I really hope the claiming rules/1000cc era brings back the full grids. I think in 2003 there were 9 Japanese riders on the grid - not gap fillers but straight competitive riders. Not to mention

Bayliss, Xaus, Hodgson, McCoy and the like. The creme de la creme of both superbikes and Motogp together. Sponsors all over the map as well - with 4 abreast and 5 to 6 rows of bikes.



Here's to hoping to see KRSR come back, WCM, Fortuna, Konica/Minolta, Telefonica Movistar etc.

Hell Kawasaki should build 6 Hayate's (bump up their displacement) and lease them.



Or each of the factories should lease their 2 year old bikes. 2 year old bikes will not leak any new innovation to the other factories.

Come on Dorna/FIM etc.. Bring back the enjoyment.



come on 2012
Click to expand...





No doubt the 990 era was exciting - I'm nit sure that claiming rules are the way to go, but almost anything will be better than the current 800's. Get some grunt back out there - reduce TC for all - and add a liter of gas - at least for non-factory bikes
 
ptk50 said:
No doubt the 990 era was exciting - I'm nit sure that claiming rules are the way to go, but almost anything will be better than the current 800's. Get some grunt back out there - reduce TC for all - and add a liter of gas - at least for non-factory bikes
Click to expand...

The incresed fuel capacity for non factory machinery is already tentatively being entertained. Generally, increased power and fuel allowances will hardly reduce reliance upon electronics. The MSMA are diametrically opposed to curtailing the current level of technology in motogp - the manufacturers want to continue to develop for the showroom. They race these prototype machines to sell their production counterparts remember, and to showcase the electronic packages and factory innovations for application on the road. Furthermore how do you 'reduce' TC when it is a relative not absolute application? reduce to what? Perhaps the way to go would be a control ECU, but again this would be regarded by the factories as stymying prototype development in a prototype series.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
The incresed fuel capacity for non factory machinery is already tentatively being entertained. Generally, increased power and fuel allowances will hardly reduce reliance upon electronics. The MSMA are diametrically opposed to curtailing the current level of technology in motogp - the manufacturers want to continue to develop for the showroom. They race these prototype machines to sell their production counterparts remember, and to showcase the electronic packages and factory innovations for application on the road. Furthermore how do you 'reduce' TC when it is a relative not absolute application? reduce to what? Perhaps the way to go would be a control ECU, but again this would be regarded by the factories as stymying prototype development in a prototype series.
Click to expand...



I take your point - especially on the control ECU issue - and don't see it being a real option for just the reasons you state. Reduced TC for me could be in a limitation of angle sensing transmitter devices. Also fuel metering technology could be limited. For me there's a real question around how really needed some of the TC technology is on a road bike - the fastest, most powerful of which are around 30 to 40% down on power vs MotoGP. Around 200 mph on the street - even in countries with anything comparable to autobahn, peage, autostrada is pretty much a death wish. ABS - one of the most widespread technological advances used in street bikes isn't even around in MotoGP. Don't get me wrong - I'm not against a prototype series, but then if there were limits to the degree of experimentation as opposed to ultimately useable innovation - that could go some way to reducing the cost of MotoGP bikes and getting us back to 30 bike grids
 
ptk50 said:
I take your point - especially on the control ECU issue - and don't see it being a real option for just the reasons you state. Reduced TC for me could be in a limitation of angle sensing transmitter devices. Also fuel metering technology could be limited. For me there's a real question around how really needed some of the TC technology is on a road bike - the fastest, most powerful of which are around 30 to 40% down on power vs MotoGP. Around 200 mph on the street - even in countries with anything comparable to autobahn, peage, autostrada is pretty much a death wish. ABS - one of the most widespread technological advances used in street bikes isn't even around in MotoGP. Don't get me wrong - I'm not against a prototype series, but then if there were limits to the degree of experimentation as opposed to ultimately useable innovation - that could go some way to reducing the cost of MotoGP bikes and getting us back to 30 bike grids
Click to expand...



i totally agree ,good post



if technical innovations and their huge costs (and at times reduction of the excitment)are justified by their possible future use in street vehicles , the rules that define whats legal should be tailored around what can be actually of street use. the way i see it the change to 800s and the overly sophisticated electronics have ...... up the spectacle compared to what it was a few years ago. funnily enough its not even the case that motogp is good commercial in respect to rider aids (think of bmw and everythin theyve introduced because especially the way tc works in motogp cant be transferred to street vehilces because of the exhaust and abs is much more important anyways).
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
The incresed fuel capacity for non factory machinery is already tentatively being entertained. Generally, increased power and fuel allowances will hardly reduce reliance upon electronics. The MSMA are diametrically opposed to curtailing the current level of technology in motogp - the manufacturers want to continue to develop for the showroom. They race these prototype machines to sell their production counterparts remember, and to showcase the electronic packages and factory innovations for application on the road. Furthermore how do you 'reduce' TC when it is a relative not absolute application? reduce to what? Perhaps the way to go would be a control ECU, but again this would be regarded by the factories as stymying prototype development in a prototype series.
Click to expand...



If they increase fuel, it will not reduce the level of technology or stop the MSMA from developing fuel efficiency. The MSMA are not interested in using MotoGP to market and develop fuel-saving technology; they are interested in using fuel-saving technology to decide who wins MotoGP.
 
mylexicon said:
If they increase fuel, it will not reduce the level of technology or stop the MSMA from developing fuel efficiency. The MSMA are not interested in using MotoGP to market and develop fuel-saving technology; they are interested in using fuel-saving technology to decide who wins MotoGP.
Click to expand...



I have to agree - and I'll venture in addition that most people buying Litre and bigger Sportsbikes are really not overly concerned with mpg - unless it becomes ridiculous - it's about speed and Grunt. It's mostly the Tourer and Bagger riders who concern themselves with miles between tankstops and they are not in the "what wins on Sunday will be bought on Monday market"
 
mylexicon said:
If they increase fuel, it will not reduce the level of technology or stop the MSMA from developing fuel efficiency. The MSMA are not interested in using MotoGP to market and develop fuel-saving technology; they are interested in using fuel-saving technology to decide who wins MotoGP
Click to expand...

And ultimately why would any manufacturer want to do that? - To make its 'marque'
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
And ultimately why would any manufacturer want to do that? - To make its 'marque'
Click to expand...



We all know why the manufacturers want to win. Whether or not they win MotoGP has absolutely no effect on the products they sell. They are interested in selling wins. They are writing bad rules to alter who wins. They are veiling their ignoble, unsportsmanlike activities with the shroud of technological development.
 
Duc999 said:
I've watched most of the 990 races in the lull before Estoril. The Big Bikes hands down provided more excitement. Excellent racing and just all around great battles throughout the entire field.

I really hope the claiming rules/1000cc era brings back the full grids. I think in 2003 there were 9 Japanese riders on the grid - not gap fillers but straight competitive riders. Not to mention

Bayliss, Xaus, Hodgson, McCoy and the like. The creme de la creme of both superbikes and Motogp together. Sponsors all over the map as well - with 4 abreast and 5 to 6 rows of bikes.



Here's to hoping to see KRSR come back, WCM, Fortuna, Konica/Minolta, Telefonica Movistar etc.

Hell Kawasaki should build 6 Hayate's (bump up their displacement) and lease them.



Or each of the factories should lease their 2 year old bikes. 2 year old bikes will not leak any new innovation to the other factories.

Come on Dorna/FIM etc.. Bring back the enjoyment.



come on 2012
Click to expand...



Hey man can you send me these races???
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
<
Click to expand...



Is it possible for Honda to win hundreds of MotoGP bikes without improving the motorcycles they sell? Is it possible to develop technologies even if you are not winning MotoGP? There is little/no correlation between street bikes and MotoGP championships other than what the fans perceive to be useful, racing-derived technologies.



There is a strong correlation between racing and production relevant technologies. Even if the parts and innovations are not terribly useful, the manufacturing techniques and rapid prototyping machines have been hugely important for all manufacturing sectors. Manufacturers don't have to win to see benefits from racing, but in case the GPC are unaware, manufacturers are leaving MotoGP b/c it is a useless contest that doesn't generate sufficient revenues. Even if MotoGP gets BMW, it will be a serendipitous acquisition from the contracting F1 paddock. Imo, if manufacturers are leaving the paddock in disgust, there isn't much racing competition going on in GP.
 

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