VDS: Yamaha or Suzuki?

If you're the team owner, who do you sign with?

Under the current climate of Tech3 severing ties with Yamaha over support, and the looming reality that VR already been granted a grid spot if he wants his team. Combined with the prospect of Suzuki having Lorenzo available to sign, with perhaps a re-energized possibility of really competing by fielding 2 additional bikes to collect data for this push. Keeping in mind that the likelihood of a full factory spec satellite machine is not the Yamaha tradition, but for Suzuki, given their tooling capabilities indicates the satellites would be factory spec. Yamaha has a longer tradition in being a competitive factory, of course, but does this mean the satellite outfit would be competitive too? Suzuki do not have the same tradition, but are they making a real push for a title?

Who would you pick to sign with?

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Suzuki, I would be very worried about losing my bikes from Yamaha in 2 1/2 years if I signed with them. Suzuki seem to be all in now for the GP and the real possibility of factory spec bikes as well as being seen as a feeder team to a factory Suzuki would give ability to sign top prospects.

Suzuki. There's stability in signing with them. You're going to lose your Yamaha bikes as soon as Rossi wants his team and Suzuki could have a deal with another team by then. I think for an outfit like VDS, the GSX-RR would be a very good platform to work with and would finally allow for their riders to do something more than they do now. Caveat being that they get support from Suzuki and aren't left twisting in the wind the way they do now with HRC.

Lin Jarvis has already said that Yamaha is willing to supply more than one satellite Team and even field full factory machines if the situation calls for it.

I am sure that was part of the discussions.

Looks like it will be Suzuki though.

Jumkie said:

If you're the team owner, who do you sign with?

Under the current climate of Tech3 severing ties with Yamaha over support, and the looming reality that VR already been granted a grid spot if he wants his team. Combined with the prospect of Suzuki having Lorenzo available to sign, with perhaps a re-energized possibility of really competing by fielding 2 additional bikes to collect data for this push. Keeping in mind that the likelihood of a full factory spec satellite machine is not the Yamaha tradition, but for Suzuki, given their tooling capabilities indicates the satellites would be factory spec. Yamaha has a longer tradition in being a competitive factory, of course, but does this mean the satellite outfit would be competitive too? Suzuki do not have the same tradition, but are they making a real push for a title?

Who would you pick to sign with?

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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Not Yamaha. They have never supported Tech 3, who subsisted on Dunlop subsidies for years, well, no Tech 3 rider has ever gone anywhere with the factory team, including a rider of he talent of Ben Spies, and whomever takes the satellite Yamaha gig will be dispensed with as soon as a certain party is ready. The only reason to do it that I can see would be in the hope of making some money in a buyout, and Mr VDS is I gather wealthy anyway and in MotoGP for his own reasons. Suzuki would seem to be moderately serious at the monent, possibly for inscrutable Japanese reasons not obvious to me.

If Suzuki remains at their current level after losing concessions, then it's Suzuki for me. As the posters before me have already articulated extremely well, Yamaha really do not do well with anything other than the 2 factory riders.
By that I don't mean performance, but the treatment of.

michaelm said:

Not Yamaha. They have never supported Tech 3, who subsisted on Dunlop subsidies for years, well, no Tech 3 rider has ever gone anywhere with the factory team, including a rider of he talent of Ben Spies, and whomever takes the satellite Yamaha gig will be dispensed with as soon as a certain party is ready. The only reason to do it that I can see would be in the hope of making some money in a buyout, and Mr VDS is I gather wealthy anyway and in MotoGP for his own reasons. Suzuki would seem to be moderately serious at the monent, possibly for inscrutable Japanese reasons not obvious to me.

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Watch yourself Mick. Before you can count to three, you'll have Knockdown breathing down your neck with accusations of racism. :happy:

Little Walter said:

Watch yourself Mick. Before you can count to three, you'll have Knockdown breathing down your neck with accusations of racism. :happy:

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Don't .... up this thread with this kind of crap.

Little Walter said:

Watch yourself Mick. Before you can count to three, you'll have Knockdown breathing down your neck with accusations of racism. :happy:

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I obviously wholeheartedly approve of the Japanese factories wanting to be involved in gp bike racing. I don’t think their motives for same are necessarily conventional and commercial, or not wholly anyway, was my only point, and more power to them I say.

I think it was the boss of Honda who in either the 60's or early 70's after being asked why they would race, he said something like because its there, and I expect thats why the Japanese now dominate the sport.

Theo said:

I think it was the boss of Honda who in either the 60's or early 70's after being asked why they would race, he said something like because its there, and I expect thats why the Japanese now dominate the sport.

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The original Mr Honda was a racing guy through and through.

michaelm said:

The original Mr Honda was a racing guy through and through.

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Indeed he was, as seen here with the late Ayrton Senna.

michaelm said:

The original Mr Honda was a racing guy through and through.

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Indeed, prior to ww2 he was racing cars.

JPSLotus said:

Indeed he was, as seen here with the late Ayrton Senna.

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Are sure that isn't Kawamoto?

I think VDS needs to go with the best deal possible, and not worry about what Yamaha may do in 2 1/2 years. Are they getting last years bike, a current spec bike from the factory, or simply components, how much data would gets passed along between VDS and their parent team?

Theo said:

Are sure that isn't Kawamoto?

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Yes I am sure.

1986 Australian Grand Prix. Team Lotus was getting Honda engines for 1987, and Soichiro Honda was a HUGE fan of Senna.

michaelm said:

I obviously wholeheartedly approve of the Japanese factories wanting to be involved in gp bike racing. I don’t think their motives for same are necessarily conventional and commercial, or not wholly anyway, was my only point, and more power to them I say.

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Your point was obvious Mike, please don’t dignify the obnoxious attempt to derail yet another thread by not calling a spade a spade, as I’m sure we all understand the difference between pointing out the ‘Japanese’ manufactures in racing as opposed to interjecting casually a derogatory racial slur.

Speaking of the Japanese, I remember reading an article regarding Mr. Honda and how they were enthusiastic about showcasing their up an coming brand by racing against the established brands of the day, particularly for the US market. I can’t remember the details now of the article, but we have a little island here in SoCal called Catalina Island, which is popular for locals as something of a weekend getaway because its close to Los Angeles, a short boat ride away. Its there that I read about races organized on the island, up until that moment I had never heard about. In the 50s there were races on the island akin (if I may say without sounding blasphemous) to the Isle of Man, of course the comparison being held on a island, partly because of the hazardous nature, a run what you brung contest, and partly because they ran on city roads. Arrabi may have heard of these races, as he has traveled to California on several occasions, these were known as the Grand Prix of Catalina. I’m getting to my point. For the most part western brands were run, Harley Davidson and Triumph, as well as other now defunct brands which I can’t remember. What caught my attention was that in the last years the event was run Yamaha showed up, eager to showcase their machines. Post WW2, that was a big deal I imagine, having the Japanese show up to the US Pacific Coast, where, if you’ve ever been here has many military installations, in fact the Naval Shipyards are adjacent to the harbor one would have used to get to Catalina Island. So I imagine it was something of a ballsy move to show up. I’ve read Mr. Honda was a real racing enthusiast, and I’ll add, nothing broke the language barrier better on my visit to Japan whilst on leave at a local watering hole than to say, “I like motorcycles. You have one? I have a Kawasaki Ninja and Honda Hurricane back home.” It’s a long way of agreeing with you that Japanese motorcycle manufactures and their people in general have racing in their blood.

Incidentally, since I took this trip down memory lane, there was a race held on Catalina Island in 2010, billed as a return from the old gand prix. It was a MX event. Not sure if you get Nitro Circus in Oz, but it was featured. Some big names showed up, most prominently Malcolm Smith and Travis Pastrana, who promoted his Nitro Circus. Unfortunately it has not become an annual event.

JPSLotus said:

Indeed he was, as seen here with the late Ayrton Senna.

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That's an interesting picture JP. Not sure who appears more honored to meet who. Both look like they just met one of their idols. The guy next to Senna, his expression is definitely one of starstruck.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Jumkie said:

That's an interesting picture JP. Not sure who appears more honored to meet who. Both look like they just met one of their idols. The guy next to Senna, his expression is definitely one of starstruck.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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From what I recall, both Mr. Honda and Senna highly respected one another. Honda loved how Senna raced, balls to the wall on the limit...a real racer. The guy to the right of Senna was the legendary F1 car designer Gerard Ducarouge who was responsible for the mid-80s Lotus cars. He unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago which was a shame as I always wanted to meet him to ask him about those Lotus cars and what it was like to work with Senna. He worked for Ligier in the 70s and was hired for Lotus' final swan song of relevance in F1. The 97T and 98T he designed were awesome cars...in qualifying they would run roughly 74 lbs of boost pressure on the turbos. Good for 1000-1200HP. Reliability of course not so great for the Renault engines with that much boost.

Probably more info than you needed to know lol.

I think a lot of people get the wrong impression about Suzuki’s involvement in GP.
Suzuki’s market share compared to Honda and Yamaha is much much smaller and they don’t have the backing of a huge industry behind them, like the others.
They’ve never really been forthcoming about their GP commitment, but I suspect it’s more for the R&D. As evidenced by modern gixxers the GP tech definitely trickles down quicker into the roadbikes.
People think their just a rider away but notice their primarily a stepping stone for young talent.
The veterans seem to know this and is probably why none of them take the leap. It’s a shame since they are a bit of a personal preference for me and also their storied history.
Please, no more Rizla baby blue though