tyre rule

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Aug 25 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]86893[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
hey guys this is my first topic not sure if anyone has posted it already but anyway what are your thought's?

"MotoGP Boss Calls Current Tire Rules 'an Error'"

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/39712/?page=1


Rossi's tires are falling apart for the second year in a row and Rossi is pissed. That is all that matters to the director of MotoGP.

The tire manufacturers will go behind closed doors in a "top secret" meeting. They'll order up a few handles of liquor and some strippers. After along night of "hammering out the details" a bedraggled Ezpeleta will appear and announce the new rule change. It will have absolutely no effect on the tire war.

When competition resumes in 2008, Michelin will be a little better. Rossi will be quiet. The tire rule change will be praised. Ezpeleta is a hero. At the end of 2008, Michelin and Bridgestone have another party to celebrate silencing the mob and avoiding the control tire for another season. Rossi gets an invite, but declines because he never shows up to any party with less than 100 strippers.

The End

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Aug 26 2007, 04:19 PM) [snapback]86909[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi gets an invite, but declines because he never shows up to any party with less than 100 strippers. The End


Now THAT is my kind of party!!

Maybe I would make a good politician after all??

Cheers, M

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muzzy57 @ Aug 26 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]86910[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Now THAT is my kind of party!!

Maybe I would make a good politician after all??

Cheers, M

Your surname isnt Rudd by any chance ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Aug 26 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]86912[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Your surname isnt Rudd by any chance ?


My thoughts exactly!!

If you're going to be damned... make sure it's for a good reason I say!!

i dont think is only rossi complaining about the tyres for one second. i think it was a stupid idea to impose new tyre rules in the first ever 800cc season. no body new how these bike were going to perform and there would have been zero tyre data from any previous year to work from.
im glad Ezpeleta is listening to the people who are riding the bikes on track.
rossi is not asking for a michilin advantage i.e overnighters, he is asking that ALL teams are aloud more tyres so they can experiment and collect more data as to which would be the best tyre to race on.and that equals closer more exciting races for us.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 27 2007, 01:23 AM) [snapback]86970[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i dont think is only rossi complaining about the tyres for one second. i think it was a stupid idea to impose new tyre rules in the first ever 800cc season. no body new how these bike were going to perform and there would have been zero tyre data from any previous year to work from.
im glad Ezpeleta is listening to the people who are riding the bikes on track.
rossi is not asking for a michilin advantage i.e overnighters, he is asking that ALL teams are aloud more tyres so they can experiment and collect more data as to which would be the best tyre to race on.and that equals closer more exciting races for us.


But that essentially means a Michelin advantage. If there's no limit to the number of tires, Michelin, with some initial track data, could whip up some new tires and have them delivered for final testing and the race... which is what was happening the past couple of years.

The problem is that Dorna is feeling the pressure of an uninteresting season. It's true. If during the race, the camera isn't focused on the lead rider, but instead, following the fight for 2nd, then the race becomes uninteresting for so many.

Watch races from previous years and compare them to all the races from this year. You'll see that the majority of camera work wasn't even following Casey Stoner. That makes for less drama and a boring spectacle.

We all want to watch Rossi and Stoner fight and switch positions all through out the race. Dorna wants that too. They're being receptive of ideas brought by many, including obviously Rossi. The main idea being the tire rule needs to change in order for a greater fight.

If the rules don't change, I'm sure it'll become a closer battle next year. I really can't see Bridgestone getting much better and Michelin not improving at all. Like all development, things tend to reach a peak and level off a bit, others will follow.

But for now, Dorna wants to have more viewers and higher attendance. And the tire rule seemed to be implemented hastily.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Aug 27 2007, 07:26 AM) [snapback]86980[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
But that essentially means a Michelin advantage. If there's no limit to the number of tires, Michelin, with some initial track data, could whip up some new tires and have them delivered for final testing and the race... which is what was happening the past couple of years.


well they would still have to do that by thursday so i still cant see it being an advantage, all there asking for is more tyres over the weekend but the other part of the rule stays, same goes for bridgstone .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 27 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]86996[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well they would still have to do that by thursday so i still cant see it being an advantage, all there asking for is more tyres over the weekend but the other part of the rule stays, same goes for bridgstone .


I see what your gettin at but the problem was, Michelin has multiple factories all over Europe. Bridgestone's factory is in Japan. Since most of the races are held in Europe or countries surrounding the region, Michelin could overnight express tires to the race before the event. Even tho it's by Thursdays, it's still an luxury Bridgestone doesn't possess.

If it stays there will be trouble, if it goes there will be double.

I'm interested to know if Dunlop have an overnight van? They are doing reasonably well. Or is it just the extra tyres over the weekend?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Aug 27 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]87008[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I see what your gettin at but the problem was, Michelin has multiple factories all over Europe. Bridgestone's factory is in Japan. Since most of the races are held in Europe or countries surrounding the region, Michelin could overnight express tires to the race before the event. Even tho it's by Thursdays, it's still an luxury Bridgestone doesn't possess.

well it would just be a case of michilin and bridgstone bringing as many different tyres as they want to the venue, the first day of practice is on the thursday so overnighters would not be possible and i believe thats fair.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Aug 27 2007, 05:42 PM) [snapback]87011[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If it stays there will be trouble, if it goes there will be double.

I'm interested to know if Dunlop have an overnight van? They are doing reasonably well. Or is it just the extra tyres over the weekend?

i think its more a case that dunlop can make very good qualifiers but not tyres that can perform for the race distance "yet".

Ahh good point

Something I forgot to mention was that on the BBC coverage of Brno (yeah I know, I'm a poor man) Herve Poncharal all but confimed that Teach 3 will be running Michelins in '08

One thing a lot of folks seemed to have missed, is that it wasn't Dorna who instituted the tire rule. It was the manufacturers themselves! They did it to keep their costs down. And Rossi was one of the most vocal supporters of the rule. I agree with everyone that the racing has been a little boring. But hey, give Michelin the winter period to lick their wounds and do some serious R+D and next season they'll come back. Getting their heads handed to them all season long will wake them up and force them to come back to the table with competitive stuff.
Cheers,
KD

Control Tire/Tyre and be done with it. Tire wars are some made up concept that most people think benefits us. It really doesn't do .... for us. This, or go with what roger said. It sounds reasonable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScareyH22A @ Aug 27 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]87008[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I see what your gettin at but the problem was, Michelin has multiple factories all over Europe. Bridgestone's factory is in Japan. Since most of the races are held in Europe or countries surrounding the region, Michelin could overnight express tires to the race before the event. Even tho it's by Thursdays, it's still an luxury Bridgestone doesn't possess.

Royal Mail Special Delivery, they could pay extra to guarantee its arrival by 9:30am?

Why doesnt Michelin just come out and say what is fact.They are not competitive unless they have a competition advantage.If everyone is allowed the same number of tires i dont see what the problem is.Michelin should still have the upper hand with the track data they have gathered over the years compared to Bridgestone, unless the .......'s didnt bother taking notes because they thought the advantage would last forever.At this point its a guessing game on which tires to bring to the track,Bridgestone obviously has better guessers.If they do go to a spec tire,how would that process work,bid war,ask Rossi which he would prefer,best tire.Lets say Michelin is chosen as the one supplier for Moto Gp,are they going to spend millions of dollars trying to make the tires any better,no,why would they,everybody could ride around on tires that fell off after 10 laps and it would all be fair.The amazing tires you and i get for those crazy weekend rides we take are a direct result of tire competition in bike racing,If you dont think so,your kidding yourself.Since Bridgestone has done so well this year,i purchased a set of the new BT002 to see what they had and all i can say is DAMN.I have run Pilot Sports and Pilot Power forever and this tire rivals anything out there in my opinion.Bridgestone got me as a customer because of their hard work>Now it is time for Michelin to win me back.In the end, this is what its all about,competition for yours and mine dollars and i think its great.No competition equals no advancement

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 28 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]87184[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.Michelin should still have the upper hand with the track data they have gathered over the years compared to Bridgestone, unless the .......'s didnt bother taking notes because they thought the advantage would last forever

what data ??? data they collected from 500's and 990s is useless on the new 800s, i think this season has proved that.
this is why i said in an earlier post that i thought it was a bit stupid to bring in new tyre rules in the first ever 800 season because no one really new how these new bike would work and how they would use there rubber.
i dont believe in a control tyre for prototype racing as my friend jumkie has suggested but i can see the sense in it, for sure some problems would be solved because we would never get to see or hear of them and i think that would slow tyre development due to no tyre competition.

sub note/ last time we spoke you were off on a long bike ride somewhere, how did it go mate ?

Slighty off the topic. Fiat Yamaha and Repsol Honda are both looking to get Bridgestones next year, assuming Bridgestone are supplying as much as they can already then who loses out?
Current Bridgestone runners are Marlboro Ducati, Pramac Ducati, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Gresini Honda. With Tech 3 looking like they have secured Michelins next season, we could see one or even two of the current Bridgestone teams running Dunlops.
Any guesses as to which teams?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 28 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]87187[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
what data ??? data they collected from 500's and 990s is useless on the new 800s, i think this season has proved that.
this is why i said in an earlier post that i thought it was a bit stupid to bring in new tyre rules in the first ever 800 season because no one really new how these new bike would work and how they would use there rubber.
i dont believe in a control tyre for prototype racing as my friend jumkie has suggested but i can see the sense in it, for sure some problems would be solved because we would never get to see or hear of them and i think that would slow tyre development due to no tyre competition.

sub note/ last time we spoke you were off on a long bike ride somewhere, how did it go mate ?


If thats the case and the data means nothing,it would be a knee jerk reaction to change.It just means Bridgestone guessed right and Michelin guessed wrong.That is no reason to change rules.Give it a couple of years and see how it works out.By that time the main reason we are having this discussion will have retired and no one will give a .....

My trip went great except the guy i rode with miscalculated his tread depth and we spent Sunday morning at the track buying a tire,bumming around for a stand and luckily stumbled across a guy that was demonstrating a tire changing machine called No Mar.We told him our predicament and he said if we got the wheel off he would be happy to change the tire.He did have the correct tools with him to remove the wheel so that was a piece of cake.Within 20 minutes we had the new tire on the bike and had the rest of the day to enjoy the racing.The racing in Superbike was as predictable as ever with Mladin and Spies running away from the rest of the heard.The racing between Aaron Yates and Jamie Hacking for 3rd resulted in a standin ovation.Superstock,all Spies.Supersport,and Formula Extreme were great races and like i said before,remember the name Josh Herrin,he is 17 and running consistently toward the front.He and Josh Hayes had a hell of a back and forth battle for the lead until Herrins inexperience caught up with him and he ran off track and ennded up with a crappy finish.
About 15 of us are heading off to Road Atlanta this Friday for the next to last round of AMA and the points race in Superbike is very tight.Spies had jumped out to a big lead but Mladin has won the last 5 races to cut the gap to 6 points with 2 races this weekend and 1 at the final round at Laguna Seca.I did 1000 miles on the VIR trip and will do around 700 this weekend to Road Atlanta,my new Bridgestone will be shot after having them on the bike for 3 weeks,Damn this is an expensive hobby.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 28 2007, 08:40 AM) [snapback]87201[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
remember the name Josh Herrin,he is 17 and running consistently toward the front.He and Josh Hayes had a hell of a back and forth battle for the lead until Herrins inexperience caught up with him and he ran off track and ennded up with a crappy finish.

Cool man. Oh to be fair to Herrin, his knee puck came off and as he tipped it in I think this threw his timming off. He is a stelar kid, and Roger Lee said we would be seeing more of him at Laguna. I was happy to see him back up that claim the next race. The kid is nails.

Superbike is a Suzuki cup, however, nice to see Hacking and Yates put on a show.