Why is it ........ when Rossi says it but true when Dovizioso said it? Someone who just came up from the 250 class says that 250's are harder to ride than motogp bikes. You don't believe that there's something wrong in that? I do think Rossi's made a lot of excuses over the past year, but in this case, he has a very good point, and he's not the only one making it, so lets not dismiss it as Rossi complaining and making excuses, and realise that its a genuine problem.
Hes telling the truth but hes carefully not dissing anybody, saying this is the way its going and he accepts that.
I think hes right in saying for noobs its alot easier now than when he did the switch to the 500s in 2000.
If this was 2000 Dovi would be saying its crazy... i can't ride it without falling off.
I think hes right in saying for noobs its alot easier now than when he did the switch to the 500s in 2000.
If this was 2000 Dovi would be saying its crazy... i can't ride it without falling off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Dec 17 2007, 08:31 AM) [snapback]104554[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why is it ........ when Rossi says it but true when Dovizioso said it? Someone who just came up from the 250 class says that 250's are harder to ride than motogp bikes. You don't believe that there's something wrong in that? I do think Rossi's made a lot of excuses over the past year, but in this case, he has a very good point, and he's not the only one making it, so lets not dismiss it as Rossi complaining and making excuses, and realise that its a genuine problem.
Like frosty58 said, just more fuel for the fire...
Why is it ........ when Rossi says it but true when Dovizioso said it? Someone who just came up from the 250 class says that 250's are harder to ride than motogp bikes. You don't believe that there's something wrong in that? I do think Rossi's made a lot of excuses over the past year, but in this case, he has a very good point, and he's not the only one making it, so lets not dismiss it as Rossi complaining and making excuses, and realise that its a genuine problem.
Like frosty58 said, just more fuel for the fire...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 17 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]104562[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hes telling the truth but hes carefully not dissing anybody, saying this is the way its going and he accepts that.
I think hes right in saying for noobs its alot easier now than when he did the switch to the 500s in 2000.
If this was 2000 Dovi would be saying its crazy... i can't ride it without falling off.
Rossi has made a more extensive statement along these lines recently, and I found it interesting that he pretty much agreed with our speculation some time ago on this site as to why stoner was so much faster than capirossi.
Hes telling the truth but hes carefully not dissing anybody, saying this is the way its going and he accepts that.
I think hes right in saying for noobs its alot easier now than when he did the switch to the 500s in 2000.
If this was 2000 Dovi would be saying its crazy... i can't ride it without falling off.
Rossi has made a more extensive statement along these lines recently, and I found it interesting that he pretty much agreed with our speculation some time ago on this site as to why stoner was so much faster than capirossi.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Well that all seems a lot of hoohickey .....
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
Rossi was perhaps the first rider to ever get TC many years ago. I find the article so ludicrous in content that I even wonder if it was taken from Rossi's words. Why was TC fine for years ... indeed Rossi won with TC .... why is he only now saying it is no good. If indeed Rossi is associated with this tripe ..... then it is a sad attempt at belittling Stoner after having come 3rd in the 07 WC.
I think Rossi knows that his fans are gullible and accept anything he says ... but I do find it objectionable that he is now trying to play down what in essence was a monumental victory by Stoner ( equal alltime points ).
I do find it hard to believe Rossi can be even thinking all these things that are printed.
Its very demeaning in the end to Rossi ..... if indeed it was his words then how can he claim TC as an excuse when he has come to prominence in the realms of TC and electronics???
How can any person look at these sort of articles as anything but either ..... manufactured rubbish by someone looking for some attention .... or..... if remotely true ...... sour grapes on the part of Rossi .... the king of and chief development rider of electronics on bikes.
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
I think Rossi knows that his fans are gullible and accept anything he says ... but I do find it objectionable that he is now trying to play down what in essence was a monumental victory by Stoner ( equal alltime points ).
I do find it hard to believe Rossi can be even thinking all these things that are printed.
How can any person look at these sort of articles as anything but either ..... manufactured rubbish by someone looking for some attention .... or..... if remotely true ...... sour grapes on the part of Rossi .... the king of and chief development rider of electronics on bikes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 05:20 AM) [snapback]104581[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
Well hes the one out on the track and hes watched Stoner from close range, maybe he sees Stoner manovering the bike in a much uncommon way and doing very fast laps.
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
Well hes the one out on the track and hes watched Stoner from close range, maybe he sees Stoner manovering the bike in a much uncommon way and doing very fast laps.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 16 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]104581[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well that all seems a lot of hoohickey .....
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
Rossi was perhaps the first rider to ever get TC many years ago. I find the article so ludicrous in content that I even wonder if it was taken from Rossi's words. Why was TC fine for years ... indeed Rossi won with TC .... why is he only now saying it is no good. If indeed Rossi is associated with this tripe ..... then it is a sad attempt at belittling Stoner after having come 3rd in the 07 WC.
I think Rossi knows that his fans are gullible and accept anything he says ... but I do find it objectionable that he is now trying to play down what in essence was a monumental victory by Stoner ( equal alltime points ).
I do find it hard to believe Rossi can be even thinking all these things that are printed.
Its very demeaning in the end to Rossi ..... if indeed it was his words then how can he claim TC as an excuse when he has come to prominence in the realms of TC and electronics???
How can any person look at these sort of articles as anything but either ..... manufactured rubbish by someone looking for some attention .... or..... if remotely true ...... sour grapes on the part of Rossi .... the king of and chief development rider of electronics on bikes.
Why can't Rossi reflect on the path the sport has taken? He's the only 500 champ on the grid. He's one of only 4 riders left on the grid, who rode the 500 and have been in Motogp every year since. He and Capi are the only ones left who ever saw the sharp end of the 500cc performance threshold.
People frequently fall in love with new technology only to find out it isn't all its cracked up to be. Isn't that pretty much the story of the last three decades.
Well that all seems a lot of hoohickey .....
Why would Rossi call Stoner "the first of the traction control generation"??
I think Rossi knows that his fans are gullible and accept anything he says ... but I do find it objectionable that he is now trying to play down what in essence was a monumental victory by Stoner ( equal alltime points ).
I do find it hard to believe Rossi can be even thinking all these things that are printed.
How can any person look at these sort of articles as anything but either ..... manufactured rubbish by someone looking for some attention .... or..... if remotely true ...... sour grapes on the part of Rossi .... the king of and chief development rider of electronics on bikes.
Why can't Rossi reflect on the path the sport has taken? He's the only 500 champ on the grid. He's one of only 4 riders left on the grid, who rode the 500 and have been in Motogp every year since. He and Capi are the only ones left who ever saw the sharp end of the 500cc performance threshold.
People frequently fall in love with new technology only to find out it isn't all its cracked up to be. Isn't that pretty much the story of the last three decades.
Trying to stay away from making this a Stoner vs Rossi type post but I do find it interesting that VR singled out CS as 'the first of the TC generation' but did not include Dani Pedrosa in that comment.
VR is entitled to his opinion and he makes very good points regarding some of the newbies and their speed in adjusting to the MGP bikes and the TC influences.
He also mentions (then the article skips a bit) that he performed in similar fashion when he did the step up from 250 to 500 but he says that the rider had to take greater risks. Maybe so, but it could also be incorrect in that the risks are still there but greater all round technology has lessened the likelihood of the an accident (technology should include handling, tyres, power deliver etc).
Interestingly he also mentions the problems experienced by himself, MM and LC so when did these problem start (my bet is with the 800cc capacity)?
For mine, whilst some of the article does follow the VR line of late this does seem to lean a bit over the line to some of his more recent comments. Was this article traslated perhaps and some is lost in translation?
Garry
VR is entitled to his opinion and he makes very good points regarding some of the newbies and their speed in adjusting to the MGP bikes and the TC influences.
He also mentions (then the article skips a bit) that he performed in similar fashion when he did the step up from 250 to 500 but he says that the rider had to take greater risks. Maybe so, but it could also be incorrect in that the risks are still there but greater all round technology has lessened the likelihood of the an accident (technology should include handling, tyres, power deliver etc).
Interestingly he also mentions the problems experienced by himself, MM and LC so when did these problem start (my bet is with the 800cc capacity)?
For mine, whilst some of the article does follow the VR line of late this does seem to lean a bit over the line to some of his more recent comments. Was this article traslated perhaps and some is lost in translation?
Garry
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 17 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]104599[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
end of day, fastest rider still wins
First person across the finish line wins actually...being fast is one element, and not all of it...
Casey was fastest on a few occasions in 2006, but it did him no good....Much like Pedrosa in Japan this year...
end of day, fastest rider still wins
First person across the finish line wins actually...being fast is one element, and not all of it...
Casey was fastest on a few occasions in 2006, but it did him no good....Much like Pedrosa in Japan this year...
It's not about Rossi v. Stoner it's about Rossi v. everybody. I'm sick reading about Rossi and his electronic whinge. He comes accross as an old fart, which he's not. It's pre-empitve. His argument doesn't hold any water because if it were true, Toseland would have an advantage over the 250 heads as he is of this 'traction control generation'. Say it a couple of times out loud, you'll sound like an old fuster yourself!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Dec 17 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]104602[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
First person across the finish line wins actually...being fast is one element, and not all of it...
Casey was fastest on a few occasions in 2006, but it did him no good....Much like Pedrosa in Japan this year...
The old cliche of to finish first you first have to finish still holds in motorsport, and not throwing it down the road is particularly important in bike racing where you are at a much higher risk of disabling injury.
Doohan and more tragically rainey would almost certainly have won more championships if they had not crashed, but the fact of the matter is that they did.
The most amazing aspect of stoner's championship particularly given his past record is that he virtually did not make a riding error during a race.
First person across the finish line wins actually...being fast is one element, and not all of it...
Casey was fastest on a few occasions in 2006, but it did him no good....Much like Pedrosa in Japan this year...
The old cliche of to finish first you first have to finish still holds in motorsport, and not throwing it down the road is particularly important in bike racing where you are at a much higher risk of disabling injury.
Doohan and more tragically rainey would almost certainly have won more championships if they had not crashed, but the fact of the matter is that they did.
The most amazing aspect of stoner's championship particularly given his past record is that he virtually did not make a riding error during a race.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I find it somewhat sad, when Rossi is coming out with all these reasons why he didn't win. Maybe its a "soft" way of break it to his fans, that perhaps he doesn't expect to be able to win in the future??.
Rossi used to just ride ..... and was good to watch ..... now he is much more "off the track" action than he ever was .... or maybe its just more noticeable that he talks up ( or others down) more because his riding is not what it was.
But even if Rossi was from a different era, which is now surpassed ..... well thats a silly argument anyway .... kinda like comparing .... say The Red Baron with a modern day fighter pilot ..... if you take it further.
Ok we have to put up with all the "its the Duc.", "its the tyres", "the yamaha is crap" ...... but surely now even the most devout of his fans must be finding it hard to take the "its the TC" comments ...... especially when Stoner and he share the same base components on that one ..... and indeed, as we are aware, Rossi has spent several more years on those components.
I also think, well anyway why is Rossi commenting on Stoner ..... he is a long way off ..... he needs to get past Pedrosa first. So is Rossi commenting a way of psychologically keeping himself "in there" when in fact Pedrosa is the main competion for Stoner at present.
I can't see that the real Rossi would have said what that article espouses ..... he would look "odd" amongst his peers .... ok the fans love it .... but the other riders must think its weird when he is knocking a TC system he has had for years. He is in fact giving them a terrific psychological boost by doing it though.
Rossi used to just ride ..... and was good to watch ..... now he is much more "off the track" action than he ever was .... or maybe its just more noticeable that he talks up ( or others down) more because his riding is not what it was.
But even if Rossi was from a different era, which is now surpassed ..... well thats a silly argument anyway .... kinda like comparing .... say The Red Baron with a modern day fighter pilot ..... if you take it further.
Ok we have to put up with all the "its the Duc.", "its the tyres", "the yamaha is crap" ...... but surely now even the most devout of his fans must be finding it hard to take the "its the TC" comments ...... especially when Stoner and he share the same base components on that one ..... and indeed, as we are aware, Rossi has spent several more years on those components.
I also think, well anyway why is Rossi commenting on Stoner ..... he is a long way off ..... he needs to get past Pedrosa first. So is Rossi commenting a way of psychologically keeping himself "in there" when in fact Pedrosa is the main competion for Stoner at present.
I can't see that the real Rossi would have said what that article espouses ..... he would look "odd" amongst his peers .... ok the fans love it .... but the other riders must think its weird when he is knocking a TC system he has had for years. He is in fact giving them a terrific psychological boost by doing it though.
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
I think it is just Rossi trying the his old Psych warfare that worked on Sete, Biaggi, Tamada, Hayden, and Melandri...all to a great or lesser degree....
Pedroda and Stoner seem to be more immune to the Rossi PsyOps, as will Dovi and Lorenzo....
It is a new Era of MotoGP, and we along with Rossi have to used to it....
Think about the sport in 5 or 10 years time... Where do we think the sport is going, back to basics of the 20th century or more and more toward the 21st century SciFi type future?
Pedroda and Stoner seem to be more immune to the Rossi PsyOps, as will Dovi and Lorenzo....
It is a new Era of MotoGP, and we along with Rossi have to used to it....
Think about the sport in 5 or 10 years time... Where do we think the sport is going, back to basics of the 20th century or more and more toward the 21st century SciFi type future?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 17 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]104592[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well hes the one out on the track and hes watched Stoner from close range, maybe he sees Stoner manovering the bike in a much uncommon way and doing very fast laps.
Yes he has watched Stoner from close ..... almost as close as Pedrosa was
........ but Pedrosa hasn't seemed to be making oddball excuses.
Well hes the one out on the track and hes watched Stoner from close range, maybe he sees Stoner manovering the bike in a much uncommon way and doing very fast laps.
Yes he has watched Stoner from close ..... almost as close as Pedrosa was
heres my 2c...
did anyone notice that there is no specific date on this rossi "interview"?
the story first appeared in MCN and again, no specific date or time was mentioned.
now, bearing this in mind, the story "broke" in the off-season, leading up to xmas with a testing ban in place.
do the math.....
old interview material, rehashed to fit the webpages and column inches of MCN and autosport.there is nothing new in this "story" and so, rossi could have said this last week or in the summer break before Brno....
like i said before, ....... journos....
did anyone notice that there is no specific date on this rossi "interview"?
the story first appeared in MCN and again, no specific date or time was mentioned.
now, bearing this in mind, the story "broke" in the off-season, leading up to xmas with a testing ban in place.
do the math.....
old interview material, rehashed to fit the webpages and column inches of MCN and autosport.there is nothing new in this "story" and so, rossi could have said this last week or in the summer break before Brno....
like i said before, ....... journos....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]104606[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I can't see that the real Rossi would have said what that article espouses ..... he would look "odd" amongst his peers .... ok the fans love it .... but the other riders must think its weird when he is knocking a TC system he has had for years. He is in fact giving them a terrific psychological boost by doing it though.
I think stoner does have some psychological ascendancy over rossi at the moment, even if it is that rossi thinks his equipment is better (not saying he isn't right
), but perhaps less so over pedrosa who beat him in the lower classes. I think attempting to maintain this probably contributed to his testing crashes, although he just likes to dominate as much as possible anyway.
As others have said, any psychological disadvantage will quickly disappear if stoner crashes out of the first 2 races in 2008 and rossi wins them. Also, while I dont see how anyone could have ridden the ducati much better than stoner this year, I also don't think a 24 year old valentino rossi, agostini or anyone else could have ridden the 2007 yamaha to beat that ducati.
I can't see that the real Rossi would have said what that article espouses ..... he would look "odd" amongst his peers .... ok the fans love it .... but the other riders must think its weird when he is knocking a TC system he has had for years. He is in fact giving them a terrific psychological boost by doing it though.
I think stoner does have some psychological ascendancy over rossi at the moment, even if it is that rossi thinks his equipment is better (not saying he isn't right
As others have said, any psychological disadvantage will quickly disappear if stoner crashes out of the first 2 races in 2008 and rossi wins them. Also, while I dont see how anyone could have ridden the ducati much better than stoner this year, I also don't think a 24 year old valentino rossi, agostini or anyone else could have ridden the 2007 yamaha to beat that ducati.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigAl @ Dec 17 2007, 09:22 PM) [snapback]104609[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
heres my 2c...
did anyone notice that there is no specific date on this rossi "interview"?
the story first appeared in MCN and again, no specific date or time was mentioned.
now, bearing this in mind, the story "broke" in the off-season, leading up to xmas with a testing ban in place.
do the math.....
old interview material, rehashed to fit the webpages and column inches of MCN and autosport.there is nothing new in this "story" and so, rossi could have said this last week or in the summer break before Brno....
like i said before, ....... journos....
Irrespective of when it was said it is still basically a "flawed piece of stupidity" I therefore don't thnk Rossi said it.
heres my 2c...
did anyone notice that there is no specific date on this rossi "interview"?
the story first appeared in MCN and again, no specific date or time was mentioned.
now, bearing this in mind, the story "broke" in the off-season, leading up to xmas with a testing ban in place.
do the math.....
old interview material, rehashed to fit the webpages and column inches of MCN and autosport.there is nothing new in this "story" and so, rossi could have said this last week or in the summer break before Brno....
like i said before, ....... journos....
Irrespective of when it was said it is still basically a "flawed piece of stupidity" I therefore don't thnk Rossi said it.
