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The Future of MotoGP (part du)

And like so many have told you over and over again, certain sports require certain physiques. The world of sports is full of " tweeners" who were to big and slow to play one position, yet to small to play another. Guess what, they didnt make it, even though they were exceptional talents. Thats life, the sport didnt change for them. You adapt, or you go home. Besides, i cant think of one circumstance where a crash diet by a GP rider turned his fortunes around. Its all in their head. They see smaller riders dominating the scene and automatically assume its their size, when in fact, its more to do with talent. Lets face it, Nicky and other riders can lose down to 100 lbs and they are not going to be as fast as Stoner, Pedrosa, or Lorenzo. Like Krop said, bigger guys { Rossi, Sic, can/ could, ride GP bikes with the hobbits, they have/ had the talent.



Of what benefit are any of the things you type?



You argue that the talent pool should be arbitrarily smaller than it could be if practical rules were used. The result is less competition amongst the riders which means they are possibly less deserving than if the rules were altered--the exact opposite of what you claim.



You argue that the manufacturers should be allowed to write whatever rules they please, though they didn't write the rules until 2002. Their underlying objective is to artificially alter the distance between the competitors at the finish line. They also undermine the 80/20 formula which is probably the most important part of GP's tradition, and one of the most important elements of separating 'the men from the boys'. You don't seem to care.



Now that you can no longer avoid the consequences of blanket endorsements for the manufacturers, your response is that you only wish you could have more. I read what you type, it is mind boggling--a Christmas list with no particular relation to reality. What have I been talking about for the last several years? Rev limits, tire regulations, increasing manufacturer participation, and rider stature. All of those things are on the front burner, and I've explained why people would be obsessing about them. I recently implied that success ballasting was the work of the manufacturers. Two-days later Domenicali fessed up.



If you want the things you want, you'll quit wasting your time trying to convince me I've lost the plot, and you'll start coming up with clever ways to preserve what you want.
 
Of what benefit are any of the things you type?



You argue that the talent pool should be arbitrarily smaller than it could be if practical rules were used. The result is less competition amongst the riders which means they are possibly less deserving than if the rules were altered--the exact opposite of what you claim.



You argue that the manufacturers should be allowed to write whatever rules they please, though they didn't write the rules until 2002. Their underlying objective is to artificially alter the distance between the competitors at the finish line. They also undermine the 80/20 formula which is probably the most important part of GP's tradition, and one of the most important elements of separating 'the men from the boys'. You don't seem to care.



Now that you can no longer avoid the consequences of blanket endorsements for the manufacturers, your response is that you only wish you could have more. I read what you type, it is mind boggling--a Christmas list with no particular relation to reality. What have I been talking about for the last several years? Rev limits, tire regulations, increasing manufacturer participation, and rider stature. All of those things are on the front burner, and I've explained why people would be obsessing about them. I recently implied that success ballasting was the work of the manufacturers. Two-days later Domenicali fessed up.



If you want the things you want, you'll quit wasting your time trying to convince me I've lost the plot, and you'll start coming up with clever ways to preserve what you want.

Dude, you need to go focus your energy on school kids Soccer, you obviously dont understand the world of big time sport.. When you get to big boy sport, especially the pinnacle of any sport, its not about open tryouts where everyone gets to play, its about a narrow field of competitors who have separated themselves from every other competitor on earth. Its not about opening up possibilities for more to play by relaxing standards or changing dimensions. Here is an idea, lets change the dimensions of the football fields across America, make them smaller, that would help even up the speed disparity that some players have over others when they reach the big league. Have you bothered to look at the qualifications of some of the riders that will compete in Moto GP in 2012, probably not, and im sure Dorna hopes no one does. They should be embarrassed . Im just curious, outside of video games, have you actually ever competed in organized sports. Im not talking AYSO or Upward Basketball. im talking competitive, where your invited to a tryout, where your ... gets cut after 2 days, where they could care less about your feelings, sport. For some reason i picture you as the kid whos idea of competition was a friendly game of { fill in the blank} and everyone goes for pizza afterwords.
 
Dude, you need to go focus your energy on school kids Soccer, you obviously dont understand the world of big time sport.. When you get to big boy sport, especially the pinnacle of any sport, its not about open tryouts where everyone gets to play, its about a narrow field of competitors who have separated themselves from every other competitor on earth. Its not about opening up possibilities for more to play by relaxing standards or changing dimensions. Here is an idea, lets change the dimensions of the football fields across America, make them smaller, that would help even up the speed disparity that some players have over others when they reach the big league. Have you bothered to look at the qualifications of some of the riders that will compete in Moto GP in 2012, probably not, and im sure Dorna hopes no one does. They should be embarrassed . Im just curious, outside of video games, have you actually ever competed in organized sports. Im not talking AYSO or Upward Basketball. im talking competitive, where your invited to a tryout, where your ... gets cut after 2 days, where they could care less about your feelings, sport. For some reason i picture you as the kid whos idea of competition was a friendly game of { fill in the blank} and everyone goes for pizza afterwords.



Dude, you don't seem to know much about big boy sports b/c many leagues have open tryouts. I on the other hand, was on a career path to a professional baseball career (in AA probably
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) until I was 20, and I know they have open tryouts and I've attended them. I had my first baseball trainer starting in 7th grade, and most of the school records for pitching at my high school, have my name next to them (not saying a lot b/c I didn't go to parochial school).



Furthermore, I'm a NY Rangers fan, and their all-star defensemen, Dan Girardi, who also has the most time on ice this season than anyone else in the nhl, came from an anonymous open tryout. He jumped from ECHL obscurity to All-Star defensemen who leads the league in minutes played. Many Europeans try the open tryout route b/c nhl scouts are still figuring out how to recruit obscure European players from Eastern Bloc countries.



If you're tall, and you think sports don't have open tryouts, you're probably obsessed with the NBA. That 'big boy sport' embraces a version of the game that is far softer than what continental Europeans play, which is pretty much the ..... test for anything in life. The NBA is a celebrity dunk contest for sychophant inner-city youth.



Not that any of this means anything anyway b/c stick-and-ball sports and MotoGP are not the same. S-A-B sports were created to discrimate based upon height, wingspan, handspan, foot size, shoulder width, toe angle, etc. Motorsport was never created for that purpose, and since it is primarily a skill contest, creeping intolerance of common physical attributes should probably be resisted for the good of the sport.
 
Dude, you don't seem to know much about big boy sports b/c many leagues have open tryouts. I on the other hand, was on a career path to a professional baseball career (in AA probably
<
) until I was 20, and I know they have open tryouts and I've attended them. I had my first baseball trainer starting in 7th grade, and most of the school records for pitching at my high school, have my name next to them (not saying a lot b/c I didn't go to parochial school).



Furthermore, I'm a NY Rangers fan, and their all-star defensemen, Dan Girardi, who also has the most time on ice this season than anyone else in the nhl, came from an anonymous open tryout. He jumped from ECHL obscurity to All-Star defensemen who leads the league in minutes played. Many Europeans try the open tryout route b/c nhl scouts are still figuring out how to recruit obscure European players from Eastern Bloc countries.



If you're tall, and you think sports don't have open tryouts, you're probably obsessed with the NBA. That 'big boy sport' embraces a version of the game that is far softer than what continental Europeans play, which is pretty much the ..... test for anything in life. The NBA is a celebrity dunk contest for sychophant inner-city youth.



Not that any of this means anything anyway b/c stick-and-ball sports and MotoGP are not the same. S-A-B sports were created to discrimate based upon height, wingspan, handspan, foot size, shoulder width, toe angle, etc. Motorsport was never created for that purpose, and since it is primarily a skill contest, creeping intolerance of common physical attributes should probably be resisted for the good of the sport.

Whether you like it or not, common physical attributes are as part of motorsports as stick and ball sports. It doesnt matter if you're the most talented driver, rider, jockey in the world, if your my size, you are not going to be a Formula 1 driver, Moto Gp rider, or ride a triple crown threat..Should F1 build cars the size of family sedans that will accommodate any and all drivers. Should GP bikes be as large as a 1400 Concours so i can get behind the windscreen. Sounds silly when you put it those terms, but what your saying is, its ok to discriminate against people who are over 6'2" and weigh over 200lbs, but changes should be made for people who are under 6' and weigh 190.
 
This thread is funny as ..... Carry on boys, please.



Btw, Lex, whos ur fav MLB team? Please dont say the Padres.
 
Whether you like it or not, common physical attributes are as part of motorsports as stick and ball sports. It doesnt matter if you're the most talented driver, rider, jockey in the world, if your my size, you are not going to be a Formula 1 driver, Moto Gp rider, or ride a triple crown threat..Should F1 build cars the size of family sedans that will accommodate any and all drivers. Should GP bikes be as large as a 1400 Concours so i can get behind the windscreen. Sounds silly when you put it those terms, but what your saying is, its ok to discriminate against people who are over 6'2" and weigh over 200lbs, but changes should be made for people who are under 6' and weigh 190.



The idea is not remotely silly. It is more difficult to compete in a school with 5,000 kids than a school with 500 kids. It is even more difficult to compete at a parochial school that offers scholarships and draws from 100,000 eligible students, than a major high school. If you let fuel rules and minimum dimension rules arbitrarily render average-sized individuals ineligible, the sport will slide slowly backwards as the talent pool shrinks. It isn't a good idea to address a crisis after it has developed. MotoGP is fine now, and it will probably be fine for a while, but the long-term effects of the fuel and dimensions restrictions shouldn't be difficult to grasp.



I wonder if you understand playing sports at a high level. In sports, as in life, a serious ...-whooping is always just a day or a play away. ...-whooping is not something that is artificially injected into sports by man-card-carrying meatheads, it is the result of high-performance, competitive individuals trying to occupy the same space. The laws of sociology, physics, and probability dictate that ...-whooping is inevitable. When I played American Legion, the top prospect on our team, a kid who lived and breathed baseball, had his career ended when he popped half of the ligaments in his knee running through first base. Stories like his are ubiquitious in sports. There is no such thing as charity in sports, and there is no compelling reason to protect the possibility of failure with the rulebook.



I'm not sure why you think blood, tears, carnage, and .... are the best part of sport, but if those are the things you care most about, you are protecting them in completely the wrong fashion. The more people you have competing for a fixed number of spots at the top, the more intense the rancor will be. The only way to kill competition is to arbitrarily reduce the number of competitors. Fuel rules and min dims are perfect examples of arbitrary disqualifiers, and their effect should not be celebrated.



Only kids under 5'6" should be allowed to play? Who's the soccer mom again?
 
This thread is funny as ..... Carry on boys, please. Btw, Lex, whos ur fav MLB team? Please dont say the Padres.



Worse, I'm a Yankees fan. That's what happens when Yankee stadium is accessible via public transit. Too young to drive, but you can travel 40 miles into the heart of the Bronx for $9.
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Worse, I'm a Yankees fan. That's what happens when Yankee stadium is accessible via public transit. Too young to drive, but you can travel 40 miles into the heart of the Bronx for $9.
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Yank fan?! Lex, you keep giving me reasons to dislike you.
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Yank fan?! Lex, you keep giving me reasons to dislike you.
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BTW, I've noticed a lot of weird references to SoCal, like have I been hanging out with you in SoCal (Austin) or am I a Padres fan. If you guys are scanning my IP or some such tom foolery, I use a proxy for work. After the house was blasted by lightning, my personal computer croaked, and my business computer was all I had. It is basically permanently logged into a SoCal proxy b/c of security measures on a client's server. Stupid security measure, I know, but I can't dump the client.



I'm in SoCal now for the holidays, and I've been splitting time for about 1 year, but I'm still a Texas resident with a Texas license and a Texas business. Maybe I'm imagining things or maybe you've just forgotten where I live, but now you know.
 
The idea is not remotely silly. It is more difficult to compete in a school with 5,000 kids than a school with 500 kids. It is even more difficult to compete at a parochial school that offers scholarships and draws from 100,000 eligible students, than a major high school. If you let fuel rules and minimum dimension rules arbitrarily render average-sized individuals ineligible, the sport will slide slowly backwards as the talent pool shrinks. It isn't a good idea to address a crisis after it has developed. MotoGP is fine now, and it will probably be fine for a while, but the long-term effects of the fuel and dimensions restrictions shouldn't be difficult to grasp.



I wonder if you understand playing sports at a high level. In sports, as in life, a serious ...-whooping is always just a day or a play away. ...-whooping is not something that is artificially injected into sports by man-card-carrying meatheads, it is the result of high-performance, competitive individuals trying to occupy the same space. The laws of sociology, physics, and probability dictate that ...-whooping is inevitable. When I played American Legion, the top prospect on our team, a kid who lived and breathed baseball, had his career ended when he popped half of the ligaments in his knee running through first base. Stories like his are ubiquitious in sports. There is no such thing as charity in sports, and there is no compelling reason to protect the possibility of failure with the rulebook.



I'm not sure why you think blood, tears, carnage, and .... are the best part of sport, but if those are the things you care most about, you are protecting them in completely the wrong fashion. The more people you have competing for a fixed number of spots at the top, the more intense the rancor will be. The only way to kill competition is to arbitrarily reduce the number of competitors. Fuel rules and min dims are perfect examples of arbitrary disqualifiers, and their effect should not be celebrated.



Only kids under 5'6" should be allowed to play? Who's the soccer mom again?

What the .... are you babbling about. Its like you are having a conversation with yourself. Im not sure what set you off on the " ... Whopping" tangent, lack of meds,? confused with someone else?. Anyway, you did say one thing that made sense.

There is no such thing as charity in sports,

One more thing in case you missed it the first 10-12 times different people have pointed it out. No one over 5'6" is excluded from Moto gp, there is a guy you might have heard of who has been quite successful.
 
What the .... are you babbling about. Its like you are having a conversation with yourself. Im not sure what set you off on the " ... Whopping" tangent, lack of meds,? confused with someone else?. Anyway, you did say one thing that made sense.

There is no such thing as charity in sports,

One more thing in case you missed it the first 10-12 times different people have pointed it out. No one over 5'6" is excluded from Moto gp, there is a guy you might have heard of who has been quite successful.



I was trying to talk about the things you talk about, but as I said before, cognitive estrangement is a dramatic convention that only works one way.



Just wanted to let you know that if they change the minimum dimensions by a few cm, the best riders are still going to win, and all of the no-talent ...-clowns who make up the rest of the MotoGP grid will still be boiled in their own socialism. I think they've changed minimum weight regulations 4 or 5 times since 2007. You weren't complaining then so I'm sure fairing width and height won't be a major ideological crisis. GP bikes would still be smaller than the communist SBKs which are designed with big fairings to make all riders equal.
 
BTW, I've noticed a lot of weird references to SoCal, like have I been hanging out with you in SoCal (Austin) or am I a Padres fan. If you guys are scanning my IP or some such tom foolery, I use a proxy for work. After the house was blasted by lightning, my personal computer croaked, and my business computer was all I had. It is basically permanently logged into a SoCal proxy b/c of security measures on a client's server. Stupid security measure, I know, but I can't dump the client.



I'm in SoCal now for the holidays, and I've been splitting time for about 1 year, but I'm still a Texas resident with a Texas license and a Texas business. Maybe I'm imagining things or maybe you've just forgotten where I live, but now you know.





La Jolla, CA?
 
But lex, the aprilia sbk is tiny. Camier looks funny on it, but he still rides it fast. In Motogp, the future is small. Honda determines the future. Then they pick simoncelli? Makes no sense, because no one has predetermined anything for rider size. Honda, with the way they like to do one thing then throw it out and try the opposite, are just as likely to start making bikes that are too big for midgets.
 
But lex, the aprilia sbk is tiny. Camier looks funny on it, but he still rides it fast. In Motogp, the future is small. Honda determines the future. Then they pick simoncelli? Makes no sense, because no one has predetermined anything for rider size. Honda, with the way they like to do one thing then throw it out and try the opposite, are just as likely to start making bikes that are too big for midgets.



Makes perfect sense b/c Honda's #1 objective was to keep one of MotoGP's top prospects off of a Yamaha or Ducati. Same reason they keep Pedrosa around. Releasing him would be handing the competition a huge favor.



Anyway it doesn't matter, this conversation was mainly for my own amusement. The sport has been turned upside down and inside out by the manufacturers, but everything is fine until Povol finds out someone might want to change the minimum dimensions by 20mm.
 
Makes perfect sense b/c Honda's #1 objective was to keep one of MotoGP's top prospects off of a Yamaha or Ducati. Same reason they keep Pedrosa around. Releasing him would be handing the competition a huge favor.



Anyway it doesn't matter, this conversation was mainly for my own amusement. The sport has been turned upside down and inside out by the manufacturers, but everything is fine until Povol finds out someone might want to change the minimum dimensions by 20mm.

Honda let a guy called stoner go to Ducati, another guy called Rossi go to Yamaha. The Honda v5 was reportedly stretched out specifically for Rossi, and it still worked for pedrosa. Then Honda got bored, there was little engineering left to do on the v5, so to amuse themselves they built a mini bike for pedro. The problem really was it took Honda much longer and cost too much to make it a winner, and in the end they gave up and just got another rider. In the process of amusing themselves during bad economic times they kind of ruined Motogp in the short term, but that's just how it goes, it cycles good and bad. Still to me 800 was good.
 
Honda let a guy called stoner go to Ducati, another guy called Rossi go to Yamaha. The Honda v5 was reportedly stretched out specifically for Rossi, and it still worked for pedrosa. Then Honda got bored, there was little engineering left to do on the v5, so to amuse themselves they built a mini bike for pedro. The problem really was it took Honda much longer and cost too much to make it a winner, and in the end they gave up and just got another rider. In the process of amusing themselves during bad economic times they kind of ruined Motogp in the short term, but that's just how it goes, it cycles good and bad. Still to me 800 was good.



You don't need to convince me how badly they've screwed up since 2003. They have Nakamoto now. He's a shrewd operator, and he has orchestrated the first cohesive HRC offensive since Rossi won in 2003. I think Honda were dedicated to keeping Simoncelli off of another team.
 
Pent up anger over being too tall to even dream about becoming a GP superstar aside (and being 6ft4 I know where you're coming from
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) - Casey made the point that "Regardless of what the riders want, everyone needs as many manufacturers at the front as possible". The question is whether or not these new rules will make that happen - the way I see it, who'd want to be racing in a championship where the chances of coming first are exactly 0 if you're not FACTORY Honda or Yamaha? Ezpeleta may be doing this simply to keep the championship alive in the current economic situation, but when (and unless you believe the world as we know it is going to end imminently you have to say when) things get better, we'll have a championship that's more open and that more manufacturers will want to compete in.



That's just how I react to the conundrum anyway - I put it better here: http://whoneedsfourw...some-sense.html



By the way, how the hell did this become such a heated debate over the preferential treatment of the evil midgets? Still, made for slightly better reading than the usual debate that rears it's head in every topic these days
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