The 2013 Murdering Mark "race incident" Thread.

[Arrabbiata1]

One result of the Spanish/Euro system is the death of other local series in terms of relevance as a career steeping stone. Once upon a time, riders would be scouted or selected from different national series..... or at least have factories/teams noticing what was going on there.



AMA and ASBK have absolutely no meaning now as a stepping stone. Factory machines or parts, here in Aus anyway, are non-existant. A factory bike is just supplied by the biggest local dealer.



To some extent, that was always the case, though some trick stuff used to filter through, and factories would compete against each other in the National series to maintain bragging rights, if nothing else.



Now, with very few exceptions (Spies) a national series championship/wins/ride is just something you tack onto your resume to prove you know what a motorcycle looks like.



If you ain't done it in Europe.....it don't count.



And to do it in Europe, you gotta (or your parents) sell up everything, hedge your bets and spend nearly every cent you own to take your shot..like Stoner, Miller and Sissis (and Gardner, though he got noticed and given a shot through his efforts in the BSB )



If you're Spanish or Italian, it would by nature of language, conacts and geography be a whole lot cheaper and easier....so more riders.



I don't buy that the Spanish and Italians have hit a purple patch through their local development of the sport and riders.



It's just easier when your whole family doesn't have mortage their future on a chance.









Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think there's a bunch of guys here who can step straight in a beat 'em all.......but there's plenty of talent that won't ever get the chance to find out if they could.

Very thought provoking. Brilliant post.

 

[BarryMachine]

But you are proposing that a lot of "hopefuls" are selected ........ Spies has kinda been that ....... where did that go?



That would truly kill the series or render it a bigger circus!!

 

[baturro]

Hayden jumped straight to a factory ride. Looks like Spies will be undeservedly on a factory bike next year. There has been preferential treatment for riders from multiple nationalities for non sporting reasons for a while. Bradley Smith having a contract to GP is another.



I don't think Marquez has received rule changes specifically aimed at him, just happened to be in the right place at the right time when the situation came up. Stoner not retiring would have made this play out completely different.



In the case of Marquez you have the best kid from the country with the best national feeder series being sponsored by the best budget. I'd be upset if he wasn't winning. Kids talent has played the biggest part in all of it for me.



There is plenty of talent that won't get a chance to find out if they could. I don't see how this can be solved, or changed . Should there just be some random kid plucked out and groomed out of maybe Kenya? Majority of NHL hockey players are from northern climates. Makes sense... Dallas Stars have much local talent? To get the best you have to get the best from where it is produced, or go to the place to replicate it. Other than that, fund a proper series and attract more interest. The CEV hasn't been around for too many years.

 

[Noodles Romanoff]

Old enough to remember when Doohan was a hopeful.







..now the hopefuls are all.....well......Bautista, Barbera, RdP, Marquez, Iannone, Luthi....one German.....etc etc.





Josh Waters, Maxwell, Allerton or any of these blokes going to even going to get to find out ?



How about the Staufers ?





It's ok if you can't see it......... I'm not trying to preach to the world as some sort of doom-sayer.





I am old enough to also remember when doing well at the 8hr had some sort of relevance, in so far as getting noticed, as well.........



How it used to work here was, if you won or did well in the local supebike championship, you stood a good chance of getting a ride in the 8hr, which gave you a good chance of getting another step up the rung if you did well there.





Now ?.....what's it matter if you did well in, or won the Australian Superbike Championship , or the Aussie 125/250/moto-whatever-the-....-it-is-this-year championship ?



Sell your house, go to Spain.





Gardner just forked out a truckload of money 'cause his kid wants to have a go at racing. (we're talking $500 000 of his own $$$ for one season). No point trying to do it home, just wasting your time.



Turned out he's really lucky Honda remembered who the .... he was, or he'd be coming home.



Kid isn't going badly, all things considered.........it just cost too much for Gardner to keep doing it out of his own pocket.





Makes sense why Stoner did what he did on the Duc, compared to others.



He ....... had to !!



(not to take away from his skill in any way)

 

[BarryMachine]

Very thought provoking. Brilliant post.

Thanks

 

[BarryMachine]

Old enough to remember when Doohan was a hopeful.







..now the hopefuls are all.....well......Bautista, Barbera, RdP, Marquez, Iannone, Luthi....one German.....etc etc.





Josh Waters, Maxwell, Allerton or any of these blokes going to even going to get to find out ?



How about the Staufers ?





It's ok if you can't see it......... I'm not trying to preach to the world as some sort of doom-sayer.





I am old enough to also remember when doing well at the 8hr had some sort of relevance, in so far as getting noticed, as well.........

Yes but back the we Aussies had a good program ..... the Spanish did not. Thats whats happened really

 

[Noodles Romanoff]

Ahhhh...but why has it fallen on it's arse ?



It (the program) was there in some shape or form before Gardner, but when he won the 500WC, it took off for a while and many other reaped the benefit of popular interest, as well as manufacturers having a good long squizz at what was going on down here.



Stoners a muliple WC winner, as was Doohan.......others have gone quite well. Why is the local scene worth jack .... now ?



Plenty of people rock up to the Island to watch the GP........hands up if you go, even to the closest one to home, an ASBK race ?



It's on SBS sometimes during the year.....how many, as a percentage, of the "fans of motorcycle racing" who turn up to the Island every October watch it ?



Show me a manufacturer who looks at it.



No disrespect to Pedrosa, but if it weren't for Roberts having his own team and picking some local talent from his country.....who would Yamaha have run with.......Cadalora ?...running around doing what Pedrosa does now ?



If it weren't for Roberts and Mamola and the AMA......would Lawson have gotten a shot ?



Unless you do a Stoner, you're not going to be of much marketing value to sponsors or manufacturers in Spain or Italy/Europe.....easy to slip through the cracks into obscurity if you have one .... season.



Hell, look at Cudlin and the like !.......ride a .... bike for 10 mins and it's all over.



No-ones looking........ the people who watch motoGP, and the die hards (or people who tune in when there's no MotoGP on) who still watch WSBK is where manufacturers pin their bike sales and marketing now.



They built their name back in the day locally, and are living off that at a local level now.



If Dad rode a Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha, chances are little jack or jill will buy that brand as well.





Just like the Ford and Holden dividing line in V8 super Taxi's......the branding has already been instilled.....no need to work on it locally anymore. You've got your fan base.......and most of 'em only turn up to argue with the oposition and have no real understanding of the sport.



At least they turn up to the races though.



We've got the same thing, though the arguments are based on idolisation of your favorite rider, as well as brand.



It's cheaper for these "fan's" or "experts" as well.



....they only have one pilgrimage a year to make.









Whish I was a fan of Brittish bikes........then I'd be safely ensconsed up the back in my shed, up to my elbows in oil and looking for whitworth thread bolts and decrying all this modern .... as a .....



Maybe those .......s are onto something........

 

[BarryMachine]

Back in the days of yore we had a great race ...... the Castrol six hour. When they ran the Suzuka 8hr, guess where a good starting point for riders was ...... I think the Willings, Hansfords, Gardners, Doohans all got in that way.



But thats all gone, and until it, or something like it, comes back there really is no chance for Aussies, other than doing what Stoner, Vermulen and Westy did.



But as someone said ..... we just have to wait and hope for Sissis and Miller.



I have no idea who's in the pipe for the US?

 

[eltoro]

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think there's a bunch of guys here who can step straight in a beat 'em all.......but there's plenty of talent that won't ever get the chance to find out if they could.

In a perfect world everyone who has the talent should be able show off what they can do. People like to gripe about the unfairness of it all, but how is this different than life in general? You said if they want it bad enough they will do whatever it takes to get there. Some people have less barriers in their path than others, some will get their chance, others won't. Of course it helps if you know people or are located in the right place. That is job hunting 101.

 

[Noodles Romanoff]

No no no......my point isn't that it should be easier, or that it was.



My point is the local scene is dying or dead, and that there will be no young talent willing to take up the sport, because unless you have truckloads of cash and can take a chance going overseas, what's at home is rapidly turning into a buch of blokes whizzing around a race track on streetbikes with bigger airboxes.



..they'll go play footy or start in carts and aim for the Super Taxis.



More chance of getting noticed and living, or making something out of, your dream.



And for me, that's a bloody shame. Especially for the blokes doing it now.





Dreaming of being a famous successful motorcycle racer starting in Aus is becoming, or has become, akin to dreaming of being an Astronaut when we were kids.



It can be done.......but, the chances of it becoming a reality ?



".... it, I'll be a plumber instead....more realistic and safer, despite my maths grade being super dooper"





Maybe MotoGP is dying and losing relevance (to anyone outside Europe).



Maybe that started with the death of many local motorcycle racing scenes.

 

[xx CURVE xx]

You Aussies could always return to a life of crime

 

[Mental Anarchist]

You Aussies could always return to a life of crime

You Americans can just continue being Global Terrorists

 

[BarryMachine]

No no no......my point isn't that it should be easier, or that it was.



My point is the local scene is dying or dead, and that there will be no young talent willing to take up the sport, because unless you have truckloads of cash and can take a chance going overseas, what's at home is rapidly turning into a buch of blokes whizzing around a race track on streetbikes with bigger airboxes.



..they'll go play footy or start in carts and aim for the Super Taxis.



More chance of getting noticed and living, or making something out of, your dream.





Dreaming of being a famous successful motorcycle racer starting in Aus is becoming, or has become, akin to dreaming of being an Astronaught when we were kids.



It can be done.......but, the chances of it becoming a reality ?



".... it, I'll be a plumber instead....more realistic and safer, despite my maths grade being super dooper"





Maybe MotoGP is dying and losing relevance (to anyone outside Europe).



Maybe that started with the death of many local motorcycle racing scenes.

Its not all dead noodles. I teach in an area well known for its dirt track racing in Australia.



When I started there the first thing I noticed and enjoyed, instead of 50% of the kids being into NRL ....... they ride bikes!!



Girls and boys. I have several state and Aussie champs as students. And they are "driven" kids ........ one of the girls is just plain amazing at everything she does.



They know I ride and pretty much every kids in the school who rides let me know within the first month. Some even know old acquaintances of mine or work for them after school.



At another of the schools I teach, the nephew of a current Aust. international speedway rider came and identified himself to me. This kid himself is a state champ. But I gotta admit at that school he is the rarity. Instant respect I get from these riding kids!! Its great

The beauty as a teacher is ........ its a great starting point to "get through to the kids". It seems to form a great respect to be honest. I show them respect for their riding exploits and they do the same for me at school. Great kids and students all.

Rather a comical turn around with one very "difficult" student when she found out I was a dirt rider form yore ,,,, and present. Went from being a shocker to the most polite girl ever !!

But there you go we have future talent ....... it will be good to see who gets there. Its a shame that its in such small pockets in Australia these days but you have to remember that back in the days say 70's to 80's bikes and tracks were very accessible,



I had Amaroo, Nepean, Bilpin, Dargle, Appin, Jilliby, Oran Park, Katoomba, Silverdale, Cessnock, Awaba, Wyee and many more tracks I probably can't rattle off for now but nowadays I think thereis one of those tracks left. And I was school student early on so that was all just in close traveling distance, so racing was ............. so cheap.

 

[Keshav]

You Americans can just continue being Global Terrorists

World Police you mean.

 

[Mental Anarchist]

World Police you mean.

So thats what you guys call it. Like Stoner we are less diplomatic and just call it terrorism.

 

[xx CURVE xx]

You Americans can just continue being Global Terrorists

Thats right son WE run this ............

Woo! Merica!

 

[BarryMachine]

World Police you mean.

.... yeah!!

 

[nomad]

What a stupid ....... thread.

 

[Zootalaws]

What Italian riders have the backing of Repsol and HRC?



Sic had HRC support, and Dovi is a lost cause. After that who else is there...Iannone??? Gimme a break

Having the backing of Repsol may not be all it's cracked up to be.



They are in deep ...., just like the rest of the Spanish economy, with the added benefit (?) of just having lost more than 30% of their oil in an Argentinian commercial coup.



Aspar has just pulled Banksia sponsorship off his bikes, if things get much worse in Spain, perhaps Dorna will have to sell up (where's the 'pray' smilie when you want it???)

 

[birdman]

Stoner only just made it though, after many years of so so results. Put Lorenzo or Pedrosa on the Stoner career path, with KTM's, LCR's and Ducati's rather than factory bikes and question would they still have made it or faded into obscurity like riders from so many other nations? Another example is Bradl taking over from Elias, look at the difference and question why Elias was even in motogp, and why is Marquez going to a factory bike when the rules and the performances over the last two years tells me the seat should go to Bradl, other than passport?



I like the way the AMA SX/MX series is run. Just about any rider from any country who is good enough gets a shot at a ride without having to roll in a truck full of money. From Australia that list includes Reed, Metcalfe, Byrne, Moss, Reardon, etc. Any ride is enough to show what you got, then its comparatively easy to get a factory spot regardless of passport. And all riders want to be there, because its seen as the pinnacle. It also goes some way to explain why US riders are not switching over to road racing like they used to. The series has more prestigue than AMA roadracing and probably will give motogp a run for its money the way things are heading.