Suzuki files for bankruptcy

Keshav · Nov 27, 2012

It was announced today that they're filing for chapter 11 in the USA. No more of their cars or trucks in the USA. Nothing was said about bikes. Still... this doesn't bode well for any hopes of them returning to Moto GP any time in the near future.

http://www.ibj.com/suzuki-files-bankruptcy-leaving-us-market/PARAMS/article/37730

Jumkie · Nov 27, 2012

Airlines do this all the time. Its a big business play to get bailed out and cut out what they see as "fat", usually meaning fair wages. They'll be back, and they'll just be ....... over some debt holders (not the executives but the lower holders). ....'em.

levigarrett · Nov 27, 2012

Jumkie said:
Airlines do this all the time. Its a big business play to get bailed out and cut out what they see as "fat", usually meaning fair wages. They'll be back, and they'll just be ....... over some debt holders (not the executives but the lower holders). ....'em.

While this is certainly true of US companies, and may well be true in this case, many Japanese firms operate differently. I'll withhold my judgement until I read a bit more.

BJ.C · Nov 27, 2012

It is American Suzuki, not Suzuki Motor Corporation

[font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The company said that it is exiting the car business because of slow sales, unfavorable foreign exchange rates and high costs because of U.S. regulatory requirements.[/font]

Looking at their sales figures, they are pretty low, compared to other markets they are in.

Bsnell · Nov 28, 2012

Yeah Delphi did the same a few years ago to cut some of the fat (i.e. ex GM workers who were still earning something like $100 and hour)

Dr No · Nov 28, 2012

You have mentioned this before. What capacity were the 100 (!!) Buck guys? Production? Engineering? Was it Chapter 11 timeframe?

Bsnell · Nov 28, 2012

I wasnt involved directly but was told it was mainly shop floor type people, and yes it was in the C 11 timeframe

DaddiiKong · Nov 28, 2012

I believe that number includes the cost of benefits.

shovelhead · Nov 28, 2012

Keshav said:
It was announced today that they're filing for chapter 11 in the USA. No more of their cars or trucks in the USA. Nothing was said about bikes. Still... this doesn't bode well for any hopes of them returning to Moto GP any time in the near future.

http://www.ibj.com/s...S/article/37730

No worries.

The bankruptcy and reorganization are unrelated to its parent Japan-based Suzuki Motor Corp.,

Also, Suzuki Canada is not affected, so lots of these little cars here.

Keshav · Nov 28, 2012

shovelhead said:
No worries.

The bankruptcy and reorganization are unrelated to its parent Japan-based Suzuki Motor Corp.,

Also, Suzuki Canada is not affected, so lots of these little cars here.

Thanks for the clarification.

povol · Nov 28, 2012

DaddiiKong said:
I believe that number includes the cost of benefits.

It does, but you can still see why American made vehicles lag behind in innovation, design, and quality. To compete in price, you cut corners when your labor is close to twice foreign manufacturers. Here is the Consumer Reports 2012 top 10 most reliable car list. See whats missing

Consumer Reports 2012 top 10 most reliable car brands:

1. Scion

2. Toyota

3. Lexus

4. Mazda

5. Subaru

6. Honda

7. Acura

8. Audi

9. Infiniti

10. Kia

The US car companies should be embarrassed, but until they can shed the shackles of the UAW, and the 100 dollars per man per hour insanity, this is their destiny.

Dr No · Nov 28, 2012

Bsnell said:
I wasnt involved directly but was told it was mainly shop floor type people, and yes it was in the C 11 timeframe

That's nice, dear. Curious that such a silver-spooner has got their tampon in a little twist over it. Did an ex-boyfriend work there?

Dr No · Nov 28, 2012

povol said:
It does, but you can still see why American made vehicles lag behind in innovation, design, and quality. To compete in price, you cut corners when your labor is close to twice foreign manufacturers. Here is the Consumer Reports 2102 top 10 most reliable car list. See whats missing

Consumer Reports 2012 top 10 most reliable car brands:

1. Scion

2. Toyota

3. Lexus

4. Mazda

5. Subaru

6. Honda

7. Acura

8. Audi

9. Infiniti

10. Kia

The US car companies should be embarrassed, but until they can shed the shackles of the UAW, and the 100 dollars per man per hour insanity, this is their destiny.

There are plenty of American made vehicles that are not manufactured by UAW workers. I don't believe that just by membership of a union a company's quality drops. After all, most of Germany's Auto industry (often held up as an examplar of quality and design (YMMV)) is unionised.

But yes, the Big 3 (well, 'big' two, since Marchionne runs ChryCo) companies should be embarassed. For all the talk of quality improvement, very little has been done.

Bsnell · Nov 28, 2012

Dr No said:
That's nice, dear. Curious that such a silver-spooner has got their tampon in a little twist over it. Did an ex-boyfriend work there?

And that just proved what a .... you are

From now on don't expect any niceties from me, because i gave you some slack and you then start the insults again. Its ok to be Jealous No, just remember that i can give as good as I get, while laughing my ... off at you at the same time. I'm not a silver spooner, I got an education and worked and probably know far more than you ever will about the business.

Ex boyfriend? thats a good one, i'll have to remember that one next time i'm climbing off your mum

Jumkie · Nov 28, 2012

Dr No said:
There are plenty of American made vehicles that are not manufactured by UAW workers. I don't believe that just by membership of a union a company's quality drops. After all, most of Germany's Auto industry (often held up as an examplar of quality and design (YMMV)) is unionised.

But yes, the Big 3 (well, 'big' two, since Marchionne runs ChryCo) companies should be embarassed. For all the talk of quality improvement, very little has been done.

Pov hates unions because the talking heads on Fox news and business networks tell him to hate them. He prefers the loot go to the top 1% of already insanely wealthy executives. How they convinced him, a middle class person, that living wages negotiated by other middle class people is a bad thing is beyond me. But hey, not only does he disapprove the wages, as according to him are undeserved since they pay .... to Asian workers, but the benefits of healthcare are just a bit too much for him to stomach. Unions are bad according to Pov and nothing good can come of them. Of course, if unions voted Republican, well then he would love them. But you see, unions try to negotiate to keep some of the profits that would go where if not in the pockets of rich executives?

michaelm · Nov 28, 2012

povol said:
It does, but you can still see why American made vehicles lag behind in innovation, design, and quality. To compete in price, you cut corners when your labor is close to twice foreign manufacturers. Here is the Consumer Reports 2012 top 10 most reliable car list. See whats missing

Consumer Reports 2012 top 10 most reliable car brands:

1. Scion

2. Toyota

3. Lexus

4. Mazda

5. Subaru

6. Honda

7. Acura

8. Audi

9. Infiniti

10. Kia

The US car companies should be embarrassed, but until they can shed the shackles of the UAW, and the 100 dollars per man per hour insanity, this is their destiny.

I can't claim to be well informed on this matter, but my understanding is that what bankrupted or nearly bankrupted the american car industry was the cost of health cover for their workers, particularly after they retire, with retirements becoming increasingly longer with greater longevity in general. So perhaps the ridiculous cost of health care and health cover in the USA was to blame rather than the unions per se; other nations have managed similar increase in longevity without paying so much for health care.

Keshav · Nov 28, 2012

michaelm said:
I can't claim to be well informed on this matter, but my understanding is that what bankrupted or nearly bankrupted the american car industry was the cost of health cover for their workers, particularly after they retire, with retirements becoming increasingly longer with greater longevity in general. So perhaps the ridiculous cost of health care and health cover in the USA was to blame rather than the unions per se; other nations have managed similar increase in longevity without paying so much for health care.

Exactly. If a single-payer system had been implemented - it would unburden many pension plans.

Jumkie · Nov 28, 2012

michaelm said:
I can't claim to be well informed on this matter, but my understanding is that what bankrupted or nearly bankrupted the american car industry was the cost of health cover for their workers, particularly after they retire, with retirements becoming increasingly longer with greater longevity in general. So perhaps the ridiculous cost of health care and health cover in the USA was to blame rather than the unions per se; other nations have managed similar increase in longevity without paying so much for health care.

Why are executives never blamed when their companies fail? Oh yeah, because Republicans in this country protect their own at all cost.

Its laughable to even suggest its the unions fault as Pov tries to make the case. These wages and benefit packages are negotiated, that is NEGOTIATED! Agreements have to be made. Its not like the executives are giving back their yachts when there is a bad quarter, ...., quite the opposite happens, they give themselves bonuses. These are the people that Pov, a middle class guy himself, relates with. In his mind, he is shackled by fair wages and prefers any profits to go straight up. And when the companies fail due to mismanagement, well, its the workers fault not the executives who undoubtedly walk away with Caymen accounts.

mylexicon · Nov 28, 2012

Jumkie said:
Pov hates unions because the talking heads on Fox news and business networks tell him to hate them. He prefers the loot go to the top 1% of already insanely wealthy executives. How they convinced him, a middle class person, that living wages negotiated by other middle class people is a bad thing is beyond me. But hey, not only does he disapprove the wages, as according to him are undeserved since they pay .... to Asian workers, but the benefits of healthcare are just a bit too much for him to stomach. Unions are bad according to Pov and nothing good can come of them. Of course, if unions voted Republican, well then he would love them. But you see, unions try to negotiate to keep some of the profits that would go where if not in the pockets of rich executives?

Reasonable people despise American unions b/c they are incompetent. Competent European unions, who generally seek to work with management (like Japanese unions) have allowed companies like Volkswagen Group to vertically integrate and leverage their labor pool to strengthen profitability and employment. Volkswagen Group employs more people than the Big 3 auto manufacturers combined, and VW is more profitable.

Employment is not the goal of American unions. They are corrupt social agitators who spread their message of perpetually higher nominal wages (not quality of life) to developing nations to convince them to forfeit their competitive labor advantage.

When the global credit crisis hit, the Germans and the Japanese didn't fall. It was American unions who were bailed out.

mylexicon · Nov 28, 2012

michaelm said:
I can't claim to be well informed on this matter, but my understanding is that what bankrupted or nearly bankrupted the american car industry was the cost of health cover for their workers, particularly after they retire, with retirements becoming increasingly longer with greater longevity in general. So perhaps the ridiculous cost of health care and health cover in the USA was to blame rather than the unions per se; other nations have managed similar increase in longevity without paying so much for health care.

True. That's why I claim that universal care is less about humanitarian concerns and more about protecting the profitability of the manufacturing sector. Public health was invented during the industrial revolution for a reason. What could be better for the Iron Chancellor than funneling tax revenues from his Junker friends into the military-industrial complex? The Germans still use industrial Realpolitik to this day.

But the single-payer universal system requires a competent government.

Single payer healthcare in the US (particularly via the current Democratic administration) is about as realistic as clear cutting an Ironbark forest with dull axe.

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Suzuki files for bankruptcy

Keshav

Jumkie

levigarrett

BJ.C

Bsnell

Dr No

Bsnell

DaddiiKong

shovelhead

Keshav

povol

Dr No

Dr No

Bsnell

Jumkie

michaelm

Keshav

Jumkie

mylexicon

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