Supermoto Madness

seen that loads of times, nice looking blonde bird. I still think the knee down style on tards looks ...

I posted this last year - some excellent slo-mo shots.

Did you know, that in order to back it into a corner, Nicky and Max are simply shutting the throttle and the bike 'inadvertently' takes care of the rest.

It's true....Barry said so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 22 2010, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I posted this last year - some excellent slo-mo shots.

Did you know, that in order to back it into a corner, Nicky and Max are simply shutting the throttle and the bike 'inadvertently' takes care of the rest.

It's true....Barry said so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 22 2010, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I posted this last year - some excellent slo-mo shots.

Did you know, that in order to back it into a corner, Nicky and Max are simply shutting the throttle and the bike 'inadvertently' takes care of the rest.

It's true....Barry said so.
WHAT, you mean no gear changes down or rear brake ??? BB berry ......... dont worry he never visits these forums

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#22 @ Feb 23 2010, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry needs to watch that video at 1:40. <u>If that isn't Nicky downshifting then i'm an Aussie!</u>
AND that his body position doesn't shift until AFTER the drift is initiated...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#22 @ Feb 23 2010, 02:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yo dude, how are you keeping? Not spoken in ages. You seen my new toy yet? (250 MotoX thread)




plans not going to plan so not been around much.. looking for your thread now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#22 @ Feb 23 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry needs to watch that video at 1:40. <u>If that isn't Nicky downshifting then i'm an Aussie!</u>
berry i doubt has ever purposely backed a bike in in his life.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Feb 25 2010, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>berry i doubt has ever purposely backed a bike in in his life.
Maybe not a "bike", but I'm sure he has experience with getting things "backed" in...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 25 2010, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe not a "bike", but I'm sure he has experience with getting things "backed" in...

Thanks for the invite PM Arab.

Well thats a lot to be assuming from one pretty ordinary vid. of a few guys out mucking around

Since you guys seem to want to learn to do it by never leaving the couch maybe this will help:

http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%2...s2_backitin.pdf

"Backing it in is not always the fastest way
through a turn, but when it is necessary it
helps to know how to do it smoothly without
wasting time or losing control. One common
misconception is that a rider must use the rear
brake to initiate the slide. The slide actually
starts with a combination of front brake,
engine braking and the initial lean into the
turn. The rear brake is a secondary tool to control
speed and the rear wheel. At no time is the rear
wheel supposed to lock up or skid due to the
rear brake. If the rear locks up, a rider can
easily lose control and valuable seconds. Study
a pro-level rider and understand that no matter
how sideways or flat they get, the rear wheel is
always spinning."



how old are you kids anyway ? with the exception of Rog. and Jumkie I know that agewise they are not young.

Its pretty obvious you guys have no idea of the reality of riding, so Arab all I can assume is you really do want to learn? but have some weird agression thing happening cos it isn't like you imagined it would be done like, and I understand it is not easy to get a ride these days however,

again, all I can say is try your hardest to get hold of a ride to practice on and you will see what they talk about when they say such as the above. Even at Supermoto speeds, its not like a pedal powered bike. When you talk the higher speeds of a dirt tracker or a road bike, its amuch more sensitive and delicate "art/skill". Talking and reading about it don't help you diddly squat.


Here's somethign for you to imagine ........ you could take off all the brakes on a bike, and just leave me with the clutch and throttle and I could slow it to a stop ......... read that article then tell me how you think I would do it.

I asked my son the other day on hashe ever heard of starting a bike sliding with the rear brake and or downshifting, I did not prime him at all just said straight out ..... " XXXX how do youthrow a bike into a slide", his first reaction was ........"crack the throttle" ......... so its nothing like you guys are dreaming. I would more have said I back off momentarily first then crack it but then again its probably very corner dependent.

but brakes and/or downshifting .............. fail. Thats just doing skids like on a pushbike

Well i used to ride supermoto and while the rear brake didn't initiate the slide you do tend to use it for balance which is why its easier you practice on left hand corners first. You initiate the slide by changing down 1 or 2 to many gears. you don't want to lock the rear up just get the rear wheel to turn slower than the front. that's what makes the rear come forward. There may be other ways of doing it, all i know is this is how i used to do it.

Your crack the throttle comment is for rear wheel steering, thats coming out of the corner not entering it. You enter the corner hard on the brakes so its not possible to crack the throttle as you put it.
Ever heard the expression "point and shoot" ? the backing in is the point and the rear wheel steer slid under power could be the shoot. If you look at the rear wheels in the vid you can see its not under power as its not spinning up.

Barry you can 'roll your eyes' all you like. I read that article and fully acknowledge it. But in your fevered and frantic search online to provide a link to bolster your argument you chose to ignore the many features which explain why the back brake and downshift are in fact deployed, and why they are intrinsic to backing a bike in. Yes, here the writer clearly states that use of the back brake to initiate a slide is a misconception - I acknowledge that - but what of the many links I provided that propose the opposite? In point of fact, he even goes on to say:

'I have hit my braking point and have started to initiate the ritual of events. Braking, downshifting and dragging the rear brake slightly'.

Whereas I concede that the latter is not used to slide the bike per se, it is nonetheless used in the process.

But what of downshifting - you dismiss that as well Barry, yet from your own link present on your own post:

' Depending on how tight the turn is that you are approaching, you may need to go from fourth or high gear all the way down to second and possibly first. All shifts should be made in one action'

'the idea is to bang down your gears and control the rear wheel action with the clutch. If you let it out too fast or all the way, the rear wheel chatters. If you slip the clutch in excess, the rear wheel won’t bite the tarmac enough to cause the rear to slide'.

If need be, I can provide a link to a post a week ago in which you ridiculed this use of the downshift based on one of my quotes. You simply ignore it when you're proved wrong, and just continue to post complete bollocks.

As I say, you also glossed over the links that I provided which point to the use of the rear brake and the downshift, disregard the riders that I have cited who talk of this technique - and in particular the evidence which you asked me to find regarding Nicky's 255mm rear disc. I did and you conveniently ignored it. As always, I am acknowledging what you have posted and as opposed to deploying stupid emotions after every sentence, or unlike you, making outlandish claims regarding my own riding abilities, I will respond.

You have consistently recounted how, and I stress 'with ease', you are able to when slowing for a corner, close the throttle on your 749s, enabling the bike to slide without the downshift or the back brake but simply through deceleration and body positioning. Not only do you routinely accomplish this on the road, but you then prescribe nonchalantly applying the throttle on entry to the turn to further break traction. This people is something that we not only should be doing as road riders, but should be actively doing because Barry does it every time he goes for a ride.

There is no need for me to provide any further links corroborating the use of the downshift and the back break when backing in a bike - as you well know, I've already exhaustively done that, and not only do you completely disregard them, but these are merely dismissed as 'kids skids'.

I'm very pleased that Mick chose to resurrect the Gyro thread, during which you behave in a similar way in spite of the irrefutable and incontravertable evidence provided by at least a dozen members in the know.

The sliding which you are talking about is not strictly backing in Barry, and is exceedingly hard to master. To this avail, The California Superbike School constructed the outrigger bike:

California Superbike School

This is very hard to master. If you read this, you'll find that even Keith Code had trouble, albeit on a race compound, braking traction.

What you prescribe on a road surface Barry, is the preserve of the visionaries of this sport. Riders with such extreme levels of talent that they made it a reality. The only other people who go there are ones such as yourself - complete bullshitters.

So where does a powerslide ie a real mans slide, meet a kid skid? True "backing it in" is where the the racer is on the brakes so hard that the back of the bike gets intentionally really light- If you were to use no rear brake as many "fast" guys such as yourself say you shouldn't, the back of the bike would come up too much - so racers tend to deploy a little rear brake to keep the back of the bike on the ground. They are trying to brake rear-wheel traction with the rear brake while still keeping the bike under control and initiating the turn. Others favour a firmer application to actually induce the slide - but as I said at least a fortnight ago, this is down to personal preference of the racer.

They then chuck the bike into the turn, while trailing off the brakes and while the motorcycle lean increases, roll on the throttle. The racer is basically using the rear brake to temper the slide, and the throttle to control how much spin he puts into the rear tyre - essentially tailgunning the bike with the throttle, similiar to flat-track racing, only flat trackers don't usually use the rear brake so actively because as you said dirt is more forgiving than tarmac.

The introduction of a powerslide allows the back of the bike to rear wheel steer, changes the bikes direction via the slide, as opposed to the even trajectory of the classic line/apex. Then, once the bike is basically turned, it allows the racer to more or less, straighten the bike and really gas it out. Today's high horsepower bikes can spin up while arching through a corner, but with no rear brake to control it, things can go .... up really fast. I have NEVER met an instructor that would advise attempting powerslides on the street, but then I've never heard of a stock production twin that locks up the back wheel upon closure of the throttle Barry.

Interestingly today they were discussing during the Superbike Coverage that the Doohan style handlebar mounted thumb back brakes were now widely deployed in adition to the back brake lever in the main to dampen wheelies (in spite of the abundance of electronics) and as an added control to wheelspin.

Barry are you still adamant that there is no use of the rear brake or the downshift when backing in during the video posted on this thread?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 1 2010, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry are you still adamant that there is no use of the rear brake or the downshift when backing in during the video posted on this thread?

Your statement that initiating a slide is done by using the rear brake or downshifting is very wrong .......



As I said


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 20 2010, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So to add to the entertainment, just for you Babel ....... I shall make another "unbelievable" statement just to keep the discussion going ........

I was thinking about bikes going sideways today, and I figured that, in my life, I have probably taken corners sideways ( sliding ) in excess of 5,000 times ( probably a lot more but I shall err on the conservative side ) .
So for those of you that call ........ ..... there's some more fuel for you! ....... It matters not to me ...... matter of fact your "disbelief" only makes me feel good


Now in that 5,000 slides I can say that very few involved the back brake to initiate a slide, and those that did were on dirt ( mx only ... never in dirt track ) just to cut inside at the occasional corner. LIke my 15/16 year old was learning here:



I don't ever recall skidding the bike into a corner with the back brake, on a sealed surface, though I'm sure its happened? But extremely rarely.

I do recall the back coming round under heavy front braking and already leaning/heading into a corner, often ( sealed surface ).

I do recall the back skipping outwards under decelleration. Often very often. Just about every corner on a dirt track. And whenI'm not careful on sealed
Edit: This bit was way worse when 4 strokes came in, and I hated them with a vengence and thought I'd never convert . Two strokes still skipped out but the action of throwing the bike sideways was more critical I think. ( But Again I would never have deliberately thrown a bike sideways on a sealed surface, it just happened at times, but happens a lot on 4 strokes )

I do recall the back drifting out under accelleration ..... same as above.

SO there you go Arab, is that succinct enough




So how often do you do these brake and downshift intiated slides Arab?

That wasn't the question - yet again you have ignored what I posted. I've shown that the downshift is advocated in the very link you provided and you ignored it. You just digress and repeat yourself ad nauseam.

So to repeat myself - answer the question - no links, no jibes no tangents, simple yes or no: Are you still adamant that there is no use of the rear brake or the downshift when backing in during the video posted on this thread?

Berry, those motox pics you posted are not of a bike backing in, and riding techniques on dirt are very different to tarmac. This is a pic of backing in, notice the rear wheel is not spinning so therefore he did not "crack the throttle" to initiate a slide. Also notice how the bike wheels are not inline. unlike the pics you posted.

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