Lots of people are Pointing out Casey Stoner's Mental weakness. I agree that he is weak mentaly, But it is not completely his fault. I was trying to find the BBC interview from today and ran across a 60 minutes interview from a few years back where he talks about how he was bullied in school when he was a kid back in Australia. The Bullying stopped when the family packed up and moved to Europe to pursue his racing career. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFOFzCOgIQK That made me Think Casey's probably always been on the soft side natrualy. In 2007 he went in with no pressure at all, he wasn't expected to do anything and neither was the Ducati so it freed up his head to let all his Talent out. In my speculation I think the new Rockstar status he found once he became the world champ was more than he can handle being that he does not have that Rossi Hayden Lorenzo swagger that makes them handle everything so well (media fans sponsors blah blah blah). But now that people are starting to doubt him hopefully it will free him from some of that stuff and it will make him get to the front again, because as much as I love Yamaha it Will be Boring If Rossi and Lorenzo Win most of the races this year. I found it funny that he said in todays interview that NIcky is not having any problems with the bike because he is not going as fast as him, It's hard to believe that Nicky isn't squeezing out all he can from that Duc and that those few tenths of a second make the differance between a good finish and a DNF. I still stand by my comments and feelings on Casey Stoner but now i'm a little more accepting of how he is. My advice to him would be to "Deal with it" your in the show son, your at the top if you wanted a calm quite private farm life full of fishing you should became a shoe maker or something like that not a world class racer. He has to "Deal with it" just like he should have dealt with those bullies back in his child hood.
Stoner's mental weakness
- Thread starter The California Kid
- Start date
-
- Tags
- mental stoner's weakness
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Why should it be funny or hard to believe? It's natural that when venturing into those last two or three tenths, the chances to crash increase exponentially as the bike's limits are more likely to show up.
I agree on a certain psychological weakness on Stoners' part though -- still, he remains the biggest natural talent in the grid, and underestimating his capacity to win his share of the upcoming races would be a mistake. Luck also plays a role here, and so far he has had only bad luck. It might turn.
At least I hope he's going to win several races this year too, leaving it all to Lorenzo and Rossi would make it definitely more boring and a one-brand championship.
Heard a funny quote today from a couple of Aussie comedians Roy and HG that Mark Webber's wins in F1 have sucked the luck out of every other Australian Sportsman. Made me laugh.
Kid, The Aussie farm life is a world away from the world of MotoGP and you may be right that Stoner has not got the same swagger of the Italians and Spaniards but I don't think a swagger is exclusively required. Stoner has been in Europe long enough to be able to cope in his own way and maybe thats just what he needs to do - be his own man. If you are winning then you can tell everyone to .... off and be your own man if you are not then you can not. I think once Stoner gets a win then he will be back and confident. Maybe Adriana needs to get the 2 other girls back that she had in the pits at PI last year and dangle those carrots in front of Casey. I reckon I could win on a moped if that was the reward!!!
Kid, The Aussie farm life is a world away from the world of MotoGP and you may be right that Stoner has not got the same swagger of the Italians and Spaniards but I don't think a swagger is exclusively required. Stoner has been in Europe long enough to be able to cope in his own way and maybe thats just what he needs to do - be his own man. If you are winning then you can tell everyone to .... off and be your own man if you are not then you can not. I think once Stoner gets a win then he will be back and confident. Maybe Adriana needs to get the 2 other girls back that she had in the pits at PI last year and dangle those carrots in front of Casey. I reckon I could win on a moped if that was the reward!!!
Joined Mar 2007
2K Posts | 0+
Alpha Setti 5
I was listening to Roy & HG, Stoner is the new Webber comments, had a laugh.
The bloke has two DNF's from three races and now he's mentally weak? Well whatever, Ducati/ Stoner will sort themselves out.....
An interesting take found on a local website and translated by an Italian speaking member - apologies as no source identified but interesting nonetheless and likely a viewpoint many have or would miss .
This is an editorial from a leading Italian motorcycle website; it's a very quick translation, apologies for any inaccuracies (the odd word perhaps) - but you should get the jist of it.
"Stoner crashes again, placing him down low in the championship ladder and is at a very low point in his motoGP career. When he was aksed what was wrong, his reply of "I have no idea" says a lot about his state of mind ... confused. We're talking about an ex-champion sorrounded by all the knowledge and investment - economic too, not about a beginner. What gives?
His delicate and complex psychological state have let him down again; he is a victim of his own unstable character, one which can make him a champion or can destroy him, often according to what others say and do. In this case, the problem has been Ducati ... by criticising him and by negotiating with Rossi (Stoners' rival) as well as with Lorenzo. What have Ducati done to nurture Stoner, knowing how sentitive he is? Now Ducati are reaping what they have sowed. Stoner will leave them, and Rossi will not come over, and Ducati will be left with nothing."
Curious analysis. Curious and interesting, as they say things that we never would (right or wrong). Originally I thought it was simply the Italians getting stuck into Stoner and making him a scapegoat, but they are just as critical of Ducati.
Gaz
This is an editorial from a leading Italian motorcycle website; it's a very quick translation, apologies for any inaccuracies (the odd word perhaps) - but you should get the jist of it.
"Stoner crashes again, placing him down low in the championship ladder and is at a very low point in his motoGP career. When he was aksed what was wrong, his reply of "I have no idea" says a lot about his state of mind ... confused. We're talking about an ex-champion sorrounded by all the knowledge and investment - economic too, not about a beginner. What gives?
His delicate and complex psychological state have let him down again; he is a victim of his own unstable character, one which can make him a champion or can destroy him, often according to what others say and do. In this case, the problem has been Ducati ... by criticising him and by negotiating with Rossi (Stoners' rival) as well as with Lorenzo. What have Ducati done to nurture Stoner, knowing how sentitive he is? Now Ducati are reaping what they have sowed. Stoner will leave them, and Rossi will not come over, and Ducati will be left with nothing."
Curious analysis. Curious and interesting, as they say things that we never would (right or wrong). Originally I thought it was simply the Italians getting stuck into Stoner and making him a scapegoat, but they are just as critical of Ducati.
Gaz
Joined Mar 2007
2K Posts | 0+
Alpha Setti 5
that is pretty funny. hey casey, you ever stop and think the reason Nicky doesn't go as fast as you is so he doesn't crash all the ....... time like you?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Yup, he doesn't crash, but then he doesn't go beyond fourth place either.
Nicky is doing well but until he begins to win races, Stoner is justified in sayng what he says.
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2010/stoner+explains+his+crash+at+le+mans+gp
Stoner at a loss over front end problems
Sunday, 23 May 2010
The Ducati Marlboro rider had not had any issues with his Desmosedici GP10 during the Monster Energy Grand Prix de France weekend, prior to crashing out of the race.
Stoner frustrated by second DNF
Stoner frustrated by second DNF
Casey Stoner suffered the bitter disappointment of a second DNF of the season at Le Mans on Sunday, when he crashed out at slow speed on lap two of the Monster Energy Grand Prix de France at Turn 6.
The Australian was not pushing his bike hard and had not experienced any problems with his GP10 prototype earlier in the weekend, and was therefore extremely frustrated after targeting a first podium of the 2010 season.
“I pushed that bike around all weekend and it had been almost faultless,” he explained after the third round. “I did need to get it hooked up a little better out of the corners but we had not had a problem with the front end all weekend, so there was no reason for it. I went through that corner and lost the front about halfway through it, and it’s not really a corner where you are pushing.”
He continued: “We need to start figuring out what’s going wrong and so far we have not made the Championship start we wanted to. It’s making things extremely difficult, if not impossible for us. So we just have to look to the next race.”
Stoner’s race pace throughout the weekend had indicated that he would challenge at the front, and he commended race winner Jorge Lorenzo’s display.
“I’m extremely disappointed,” Stoner stated. “We had a really good shot at giving Jorge a run for his money. Obviously he was going to be the one we were going to try and battle with. He made the others look a little silly today, and my hat goes off to him. It would have been nice to be up front.”
Next up is a circuit that Stoner won at last year, Mugello, and he is hopeful of getting his campaign back on track in Italy.
“We’ll see how we go in these next couple of races,” he said. “It’s not something I expected, but we have just got to keep our heads up for the next race.”
Probably not as silly as crashing out and watching the rest of the race from your trailer.
Stoner at a loss over front end problems
Sunday, 23 May 2010
The Ducati Marlboro rider had not had any issues with his Desmosedici GP10 during the Monster Energy Grand Prix de France weekend, prior to crashing out of the race.
Stoner frustrated by second DNF
Stoner frustrated by second DNF
Casey Stoner suffered the bitter disappointment of a second DNF of the season at Le Mans on Sunday, when he crashed out at slow speed on lap two of the Monster Energy Grand Prix de France at Turn 6.
The Australian was not pushing his bike hard and had not experienced any problems with his GP10 prototype earlier in the weekend, and was therefore extremely frustrated after targeting a first podium of the 2010 season.
“I pushed that bike around all weekend and it had been almost faultless,” he explained after the third round. “I did need to get it hooked up a little better out of the corners but we had not had a problem with the front end all weekend, so there was no reason for it. I went through that corner and lost the front about halfway through it, and it’s not really a corner where you are pushing.”
He continued: “We need to start figuring out what’s going wrong and so far we have not made the Championship start we wanted to. It’s making things extremely difficult, if not impossible for us. So we just have to look to the next race.”
Stoner’s race pace throughout the weekend had indicated that he would challenge at the front, and he commended race winner Jorge Lorenzo’s display.
“I’m extremely disappointed,” Stoner stated. “We had a really good shot at giving Jorge a run for his money. Obviously he was going to be the one we were going to try and battle with. He made the others look a little silly today, and my hat goes off to him. It would have been nice to be up front.”
Next up is a circuit that Stoner won at last year, Mugello, and he is hopeful of getting his campaign back on track in Italy.
“We’ll see how we go in these next couple of races,” he said. “It’s not something I expected, but we have just got to keep our heads up for the next race.”
Probably not as silly as crashing out and watching the rest of the race from your trailer.
Is Casey just simply over riding the thing in his haste to get to the front?We know that he doesn`t really like mixing it unless its absolutely neccesary.
With the depth of talent maturing this season,he`s gonna find it difficult EVERY race now.
With the depth of talent maturing this season,he`s gonna find it difficult EVERY race now.
This quote, and the quotes that prompted it raise a question in my mind. Levi and I were discussing it over the phone and I'd like to hear more Slider's opinions. I hope I can come across as not biased, because I love Nicky and really admire Stoner's talent. Nothing would make me happier than to see Stoner race and win. My question is this.......which is the more professional race attitude? The one that pushes the envelope of a bike that one knows is "weak in the front end" and crashes in doing so, or is it more professional to realize your machine's limitations and race and score points without busting the envelope and throwing it into the gravel? I'm not trying to be an instigator, I'm just asking for objective opinions.
A few thoughts enter my mind as I deliberate on this. Nobody can deny Casey's raw talent as a motorcycle rider, but were talking about motorcycle racing, isn't the better racer one that shows some restraint? (a fan wants to see a rider that is hanging off that screaming bike but what does a race owner want?) Or, is Nicky just not talented enough to explore the edge of the performance envelope, or is he? I've always liked Nicky for his determination and pluck, but deep down did not think that he really had the talent to be a consistent race winner (last year's sentiments). His displays lately however, have gotten me to think that he does have the talent to race (and hopefully win) and develop a great racing machine (maybe not as exciting to watch race but the guy of more value in your racing paddock as an owner/manufacturer.
I'm beginning to ramble and mix thoughts but I think you get the idea of my question, would like to hear your thoughtful opinions........
Well you don't know your bikes or even your own limits until you step over them. This is what being a rookie is all about. professional non rookie racers should ride on the limit without stepping over it.
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 34+
Tar Heel State
Well you don't know your bikes or even your own limits until you step over them. This is what being a rookie is all about. professional non rookie racers should ride on the limit without stepping over it.
Rog...agreed 100%
I think patience could be in play here for the Ducati boys. Nick didn't feel comfortable pushing at the beginning and Casey did, I think we see how that worked out for Casey. Nicky seems to take longer to find the limitations, hence his speed seem to pick up towards the end of the race but of course it was too late at that point. Nicky probably needs to step past that safe threshold a little more at the start of the race so that he can keep in touch with the front runners...just my $.02
aren' the first 2 sessions of testing the way you find the limit on the bike? and you still have the qualifying session to see the limit of the bike! Nicky had a big crash in Fp2 in Jerez and came back for a good qualifying session and race. Stoners only other crash outside of races 1 and 3 has been fp1 in Jerez. If the Duc doesn't have what it takes to race at the front, Nicky is a lot smarter than Casey Because he is finishing the races and grabbing points not only for Him but for Ducati. Nicky is only 3 points behind Dovi for 3rd while Casey is in 13th with only has 11 points. So lets say Ducati magically fixes this front end problem and stoner finds his pace, He is going to need a hell of a lot of wins to catch up to Jorge and Vale and i dont think those 2 are just going to let him go by them. As this season unfolds its going to get a lot more interesting with Nicky's strong tracks coming up we'll see if its really the Duc thats holding them back from the podium as of now its looking like its going to be an All Jorge and Vale season.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
"Et tu, Brute?" Hahaha. Bro bro, CK, you could just as easily titled this thread: Lorenzo’s mental weakness; for the last two years. Hehehe.
Bro, I suspect this thread will simply diverge into the two camps that already exist, those who .... on Stoner at every opportunity (mostly everybody including the racing media) and those who see through it. You’re a Lorenzo fan, so you should know how many times Lorenzo has crashed the last two years, especially last year. Last year he crashed while leading and challenging for the championship several times. Did we see article titles and threads titled: Lorenzo, weak under pressure, or Lorenzo, cracks while leading…again, or Lorenzo, despite having the best package crashes…again (yeah, we can’t really blame the immaculate Yamaha now can we). Lorenzo has royally ...... up, but while this has happened, nothing but positive accolade has come his way by most (except a few who tried to vilify him for being fast on “Rossi immaculate-conception developed bike”.) He’s been a “hero” for riding with the injuries he himself caused, talk about incongruous (ironic)! Not to mention taking out Nicky like some twitchy 250 snot nosed kid in his desperate haste (and I dare say sign of weak mental immaturity) to get back points, less you forget! Stoner would need to crash 2 more times (while taking another rider out ala Mika Krashio) just to match Lorenzo’s DNFs last year, that is 4. Yet where were all the calls about his “mental weakness”?
I understand why Rossi mindless fans .... on Stoner; quiet simply they are cult followers with a gene for bopper cheerleading akin to teen boy-band fans (.... even the biased journalist can’t wrapped their mind around him getting beat straight up and now trying to blame it on his shoulder despite Rossi saying that’s not it); but it seems lately a few more have taken to this underserved questioning of Stoner’s mental strength. In the last few rounds you’ve heard people mention the Honda has wayward issues; this of course is simply a hangover effect of Peders ...... preseason form. Yet the Honda has been on the podium every race so far by either rider (both of which momentarily led no less). Have you seen the Duc wobble? Watch the practices again, and you tell me if that Duc looks planted? Nicky went down at 130 mph and mentioned there were handling issues still to sort. With so much evidence that the Duc has .... handling, why are Stoner’s crashes only discussed within the realm of some intangible illusive (and to date) frankly as concrete as mere ‘hearsay’ regarding mental toughness?
We know the Duc has been redesigned dramatically, much improvement has been made to power delivery, but with any major change, the entire system of a bike would be effected, that includes the handling and electronics. Lorenzo was offered the GNP of a small nation to ride the Duc; he wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole. Why? Now Rossi is using the same thinly veiled leverage bargaining to ex-out his teammate by ........ courting with Duc, but we both know he won’t go there. Why? Because the Duc is the third best factory machine; (and in that time, minus Stoner (the “weak one”) it would have been behind Suzuki in constructor points). In MotoGP this is the difference between titles! I read a poster here say that Hayden this year made Stoner “look ordinary”. Well, Lorenzo has made Rossi look “ordinary” too (I put ordinary in quotes because it seems not winning a race now is equated with “ordinary”). Why? Because Lorenzo, unlike anybody else who has ever been a Rossi teammate, has the clout, pedigree, and support to have a package near equal to challenge Vale (much to Rossi’s chagrin).
I could make the case just as easily that Lorenzo lacks the “mental strength” at this level; for Casey has also ridden hurt and has had moments of brilliance, just like Lorenzo; however, unlike Lorenzo, despite considerable pressure from the sport standard of greatness--Rossi, Casey has actually notched a world title. Does it sound a bit ridiculous to say Lorenzo “lacks the mental strength”? I agree, just as much as I think it’s a bit unfair to say or suggest Casey lacks mental strength to explain his last two crashes. Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, and Casey, have all crashed out from the lead, perhaps we should question all their mental strengths? (I have a buddy who is a minister, he came over to watch the race, and he said something interesting when he saw the many crashes at Le Mans, “Unlike Jesus, a motorcycle is very unforgiving.” Wise words, now add to this the ragged edge nature of a GP bike ridden at this level. Perhaps Ben Spies suffers from a bit of mental strength, since he too crashed out of Le Mans? Its interesting that you mention some “bullying” in Casey’s past, seems like his past is revisiting him. This is perhaps the best description of how many followers of the sport treat Stoner, reminds me of highschool politics, while others are the “cool” popular kids that everybody loves. And the mystery of this dynamic is as tenable as the reasons why the shortcomings of the most popular kids were dismissed. I suspect the “mental strength” card is used over and over because its sounds clever or in many cases repeating what some detractor injected into the discourse and now its become part of the debate as if it were a foregone conclusion. (I can’t remember the exactly case atm; but it reminds me of a case study where a politician accused his opponent of literally have ... with a pig, they asked him some years later if he believed the claim, and he said, “no, but I just wanted to see him deny it.”) Its become quite a catch all phrase to accuse Stoner of “mental weakness” to describe everything that happens to the man; yet frankly we know very little if anything about his mental toughness; unless of course accumulating an equal number of wins to Rossi (the standard) while riding the bucking Ducati (20) is consider “mental weakness”.
(CK, started off as a reply to you then got caught up in replying to the rest that think Stoner might be weak, so read it with my happy voice bro, still under the dehydrated effect of partying with your ....)
it wasn't that long ago when the season was 10-12 rounds. we so far have only had 3 rounds, meaning that there are still 15 rounds to go !!. it may be difficult to clinch a title, but his season is far from over. why are so many so keen to climb on the stoner bashing wagon?
and i f i hadnt double checked the dates, this thread could have been written in 2008 or 2009. seriously,
and i f i hadnt double checked the dates, this thread could have been written in 2008 or 2009. seriously,
Similar threads
