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Stoner V's Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Mar 25 2009, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Disagree

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i knew you would lol

if the yamaha is just abit better than last season in my opinion it wont be enough, i take my hat off to ducati for evolving the bike the way they are and with stoner behind the throttle it could be a serious combination.

i hope im wrong as i dont want to see ANY rider trotting off into the distance and i dont wanna see rossi vs stoner battle either, im hoping for a few factory guys battling at the front.

like i said if the zooki is upto it watch out for capirossi because if he can ride that bike the way he wants (forget the age) he can mix it up with the best of them.
 
No offence to Dovi - bcause I lthink he is a good dude and talented rider - but I'm happy as long as Honda don't win it.
Rossi, Soner, Jorge, Hayden, or even the Suzuki's.
My pick is Stoner
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Mar 25 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey would have walked away with it last year only for his own .... ups.
You don't think yamaha building a better bike and rossi riding superbly had anything to do with it?

Casey's mistake at laguna may have cost him, but he finished second as he possibly would still have done if the race had gone full distance without an error from him. After that the championship was basically gone barring a problem for rossi. Given the likelihood of rossi finishing second in any race casey did win, particularly since the only riders even vaguely likely to also finish ahead of rossi (lorenzo and pedrosa) were injured and even absent for some of the races, casey needed to win 6 of the 7 races post laguna to retain the world championship, and then would have done so only by virtue of a superior number of race wins. He was unable to win 6 out of 7 of these races in 2007 when the ducati had a greater straight line advantage, so I can't see how it was ever possible for him to have walked it in.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 26 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't think yamaha building a better bike and rossi riding superbly had anything to do with it?

Casey's mistake at laguna may have cost him, but he still finished second as he possibly would still have done if the race had gone full distance. After that the championship was basically gone barring a problem for rossi. Given the likelihood of rossi finishing second in any race casey did win, particularly since the only riders even vaguely likely to also finish ahead of rossi (lorenzo and pedrosa) were injured and even absent for some of the races, casey needed to win 6 of the 7 races post laguna to retain the world championship, and then would have done so only by virtue of a superior number of race wins. He was unable to win 6 out of 7 of these races in 2007 when the ducati had a greater straight line advantage, so I can't see how it was ever possible for him to have walked it in.
+1
 
We'll know Saturday at 18:00 hours if the Suzuki is in the mix. They are supposed to bring the final piece of the puzzle, more power, to this test. The Ducati/Stoner mix looks unreal. Ducati have given Stoner the technological advantage over the Yamaha and he is clearly the fastest rider on the fastest machine. However, Rossi is clearly the most intense racer on a fabulous machine so I don't know which of the two will come out on top. But I favour Stoner simply because I get pleasure from watching Rossi get beat. Maybe (undoubtedly) I have the underdog syndrome and that is an admission in itself. I really want the Suzuki's on top but I'm realistic.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 26 2009, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati have given Stoner the technological advantage over the Yamaha and he is clearly the fastest rider on the fastest machine.
I'm not so sure, Stoner is 58kg and 1.71m. Rossi is considerably bigger.
Also, based on comments Hopper made in MCN, MotoGP is more like a video game than any other bike racing. It may be Stoner's young age plus the stories I hear (that he's an obsessive video game junkie). That would account for his fearless early slides into the apex, which allow for better squaring at corner exit. He literally turns in earlier but while going faster. As if the road inside the corner got wider. It's seem crazy to turn in early, but his high speed/inertia corrects what seemingly is a mistake (obviously not). He trail brakes like crazy.

Anyone who's played Tourist Trophy or MotoGP 08 will know just what I'm talking about. These techniques probably seem unreal but the physics engines in these games are pretty accurate...

p.15
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/new...w-mcn-march-25/
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 26 2009, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati have given Stoner the technological advantage over the Yamaha and he is clearly the fastest rider on the fastest machine. However, Rossi is clearly the most intense racer on a fabulous machine


Excellent way to surmise the two.

I would have to say I have a bit of the underdog syndrome too. Props to Rossi for bringing it back last year... but I think he needs to keep being challenged so that his ego doesn't get away from him again. Stoner has gained some good experience last year. Stoner all the way for 09!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 26 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We'll know Saturday at 18:00 hours if the Suzuki is in the mix. They are supposed to bring the final piece of the puzzle, more power, to this test. The Ducati/Stoner mix looks unreal. Ducati have given Stoner the technological advantage over the Yamaha and he is clearly the fastest rider on the fastest machine. However, Rossi is clearly the most intense racer on a fabulous machine so I don't know which of the two will come out on top. But I favour Stoner simply because I get pleasure from watching Rossi get beat. Maybe (undoubtedly) I have the underdog syndrome and that is an admission in itself. I really want the Suzuki's on top but I'm realistic.

^ exactamundo! thats better put than i could manage and precisely my opinion too. i also tend to favour riders who are not from europe, simply because i am not....

i hope suzukis powerplant is the final piece of the puzzle and am slowly getting more optimistic about their chances in 2009..
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 26 2009, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not so sure, Stoner is 58kg and 1.71m. Rossi is considerably bigger.
Also, based on comments Hopper made in MCN, MotoGP is more like a video game than any other bike racing...

I am interested to see just how big Rossi is. Jerez will not require insulation under the leathers.

As far as video games go I couldn't comment as I think they are a complete waste of time. Why not actually hop on your bike and ride around? I see young kids playing guitar hero and think why not just play a guitar? So ya hopeless in that arena.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 26 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am interested to see just how big Rossi is. Jerez will not require insulation under the leathers.
As far as video games go I couldn't comment as I think they are a complete waste of time. Why not actually hop on your bike and ride around? I see young kids playing guitar hero and think why not just play a guitar? So ya hopeless in that arena.
Vale 67kg, 182cm

I love riding my bike and do so every day. I've done trackdays at 3 differnt circuits and been at live races all over the world.
Stoner, Spies, etc openly admit to using video games to learn tracks. Maybe they know something you don't. MotoGP and Tourist Trophy aren't the same as Rockstar. I'm pretty sure they don't have a team of physics engineers, aerial maps, on board video and full telemetry when making music games.

Flying to Laguna, Phillip Island, Miller, etc everyday is unrealistic. I also don't store multiple race prepped bikes at tracks.... If you haven't played any of these games, you won't understand what good simulators they are.

Ask any pilot under 50 what he thinks of Microsoft Flight Simulator and you may be very surprised
 
i think stoner will be just like biaggi and gibernau
IF stoner in the front just because the bike is fast but no great performance and everybody will be boring to watch motogp so everybody will watch WSBK
so i say ROSSI will be the Winner again
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cygnus88 @ Mar 26 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think stoner will be just like biaggi and gibernau
IF stoner in the front just because the bike is fast but no great performance and everybody will be boring to watch motogp so everybody will watch WSBK
so i say ROSSI will be the Winner again


sniff sniff, uh oh
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 26 2009, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not so sure, Stoner is 58kg and 1.71m. Rossi is considerably bigger.
Also, based on comments Hopper made in MCN, MotoGP is more like a video game than any other bike racing. It may be Stoner's young age plus the stories I hear (that he's an obsessive video game junkie). That would account for his fearless early slides into the apex, which allow for better squaring at corner exit. He literally turns in earlier but while going faster. As if the road inside the corner got wider. It's seem crazy to turn in early, but his high speed/inertia corrects what seemingly is a mistake (obviously not). He trail brakes like crazy.

Anyone who's played Tourist Trophy or MotoGP 08 will know just what I'm talking about. These techniques probably seem unreal but the physics engines in these games are pretty accurate...

p.15
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/new...w-mcn-march-25/
Ahhh the biggest debate on the gamer sites about the GP games was the powerslide. Now if you have played those games like curve and myself you would know how unrealistic the powerslide really is in the game. In the 08 version they got the power to the ground thing down pretty good but you can't slide like you used to be able to in the past. This goes double for sbk08 as well cause if you slide in the least you crash. The games now favor a sweet throttle control and smooth braking. Most of my times are top 10 or 20 so it takes a while to get fast believe me. If you play any of these games look curve, myself and a few others up so we can bang some bars.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Mar 26 2009, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you play any of these games look curve, myself and a few others up so we can bang some bars.
I'll look you up for sure. MotoGP 2008 is the first of that series I've owned. So I don't know how wit was B4. Seems pretty spot on to me.
Now, Tourist Trophy that's a sick ... game...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cygnus88 @ Mar 26 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think stoner will be just like biaggi and gibernau


No he won't.

He has a MotoGP/500cc (thrown in for clarity reasons) championship, Biaggi and/or Gibernau do not (although Biaggi's 4 x 250cc championships is a great accomplishment).







Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 26 2009, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vale 67kg, 182cm

I love riding my bike and do so every day. I've done trackdays at 3 differnt circuits and been at live races all over the world.
Stoner, Spies, etc openly admit to using video games to learn tracks. Maybe they know something you don't. MotoGP and Tourist Trophy aren't the same as Rockstar. I'm pretty sure they don't have a team of physics engineers, aerial maps, on board video and full telemetry when making music games.

Sure games are good for learning tracks, IF what you put into that are automating the knowledge of whats around the next turn. For actually riding a bike a fast it's not related what so ever.
It doesn't matter how good the physics engine are, you never get the same feedback as a real bike and you never feel the rush, danger and reality of it all.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 26 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure games are good for learning tracks, IF what you put into that are automating the knowledge of whats around the next turn. For actually riding a bike a fast it's not related what so ever.
It doesn't matter how good the physics engine are, you never get the same feedback as a real bike and you never feel the rush, danger and reality of it all.
I know you can't feel the weight transfer of the bike or the wind or the engine or the traction of the tire. Whatever gave you any indication that' what I was implying is a creation of your own mind. I've done trackdays. I've been to races. What bike do you ride (if any)?

Before I went to Laguna, I played Tourist Trophy non stop. On just my second trackday ever, I was moved into the intermediate group and way upfront. I'm sure if I hadn't played I'da dumped my bike at that pace. Don't take my word for it though.

Spies said he played Phillip Island on his video game system. If he could learn it better just watching onboard video (which you seem to imply by saying it just gives knowledge of turns) , then he woulda gotten shitloads of onboard. Video games show show approximate braking points (no feel), appropriate corner entry speeds/gears, available racing lines, grade changes, etc.

Stoner is a known gamer and approaches corners with the reckless abandon of one.
Rossi should spend less time getting his .... packed and more time with PS3 if he wants to win the title. Casey is healthy, tougher and has a more stable bike. It will be a dogfight.
GG.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 26 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't think yamaha building a better bike and rossi riding superbly had anything to do with it?

Casey's mistake at laguna may have cost him, but he finished second as he possibly would still have done if the race had gone full distance without an error from him. After that the championship was basically gone barring a problem for rossi. Given the likelihood of rossi finishing second in any race casey did win, particularly since the only riders even vaguely likely to also finish ahead of rossi (lorenzo and pedrosa) were injured and even absent for some of the races, casey needed to win 6 of the 7 races post laguna to retain the world championship, and then would have done so only by virtue of a superior number of race wins. He was unable to win 6 out of 7 of these races in 2007 when the ducati had a greater straight line advantage, so I can't see how it was ever possible for him to have walked it in.


Of course I do. The Rossi and Yamaha combination was very strong but equally fortunate of Casey’s bad luck(what ever you want to call it) . And yea the fact that Casey had no assistance from the other guys to help take points off Rossi as he made his final push towards the end of the season didn’t help either. Being able to look over the season and asset it, had these rounds gone differently for what ever the reason Casey would have walked away with(but they didn’t so $%& it)
Round 2 : 11th (position), round 3 : 6th , round 5 : 16th , round : 12 DNF, round : 13 DNF, round 17 : 6th

Casey had some cracking results too, but maybe I should have been more careful and said Casey/Ducati/Bridgestone would have walked away with it had it not been for those 4 disastrous and 2 mediocre results(Yes 6th is mediocre for a reigning world champion, I’m sure he would agree with me on that one)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 26 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know you can't feel the weight transfer of the bike or the wind or the engine or the traction of the tire. Whatever gave you any indication that' what I was implying is a creation of your own mind. I've done trackdays. I've been to races. What bike do you ride (if any)?

Before I went to Laguna, I played Tourist Trophy non stop. On just my second trackday ever, I was moved into the intermediate group and way upfront. I'm sure if I hadn't played I'da dumped my bike at that pace. Don't take my word for it though.

Spies said he played Phillip Island on his video game system. If he could learn it better just watching onboard video (which you seem to imply by saying it just gives knowledge of turns) , then he woulda gotten shitloads of onboard. Video games show show approximate braking points (no feel), appropriate corner entry speeds/gears, available racing lines, grade changes, etc.

Stoner is a known gamer and approaches corners with the reckless abandon of one.
Rossi should spend less time getting his .... packed and more time with PS3 if he wants to win the title. Casey is healthy, tougher and has a more stable bike. It will be a dogfight.
GG.

Man I hope you didn't take my remark as an insult. I am 50 years old and spend at least 12 hours a day on a computer designing crap and you name it. But I can not get the hang of the controls on PS2 or Xbox. I know I could if I took the time but I just can't do it. Good for you doing all the track days I wish I had the chance to do so. I am busy paying for my kids to get through multilple university/college programs whilst feeding them with a shovel...
 

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