Sure you could have Casey...should put your money where your mouth is.
Yes. Maybe he could have, but easy to say retired for nearly 5 complete seasons now with no intention to return.
MM is bidding fair for his 4th title in those 5 seasons, end of story.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
It's really like Stoner needs to convince himself he can still compete without actually going out there and competing. Like I said in the past, it would have been a fantastic matchup to have both of them on the Repsol Honda as it would have made them better riders at the end of the day. But while he can believe what he would like, without ever having directly competed against Marquez, it's a moot point to make any claim.
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
i have to say no. as big of a stoner fan as i am and would love to see him back casey would not beat MM for the title. He may win a race or several but over time he would not win the title. lets face it stoner was an amazing talent no question, however mentally he wasnt there. now im not talking about the so called rossi head games but MM would have broke him down.
its kind of like labron and jordan casey being labron and MM being jordan. maybe labron if more gifted but jordan would have destroyed him head to head. the will to win at any cost is what jordan and MM have. casey and lebron have amazing talent but at the end of the day its whatever happens im happy with no need to put my neck out i can always try again next time
oh if you think you can beat him do it race if not zip it.
its kind of like labron and jordan casey being labron and MM being jordan. maybe labron if more gifted but jordan would have destroyed him head to head. the will to win at any cost is what jordan and MM have. casey and lebron have amazing talent but at the end of the day its whatever happens im happy with no need to put my neck out i can always try again next time
oh if you think you can beat him do it race if not zip it.
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
First of all, the title of the article is sensational clickbait, designed to spark clicks and debate typically overshadowing what was actually said.
Comment on what he actually said:
“People always ask me if I could beat him [Marquez], and there a lot of things that suggest I could,” Stoner said in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.
“I won against [Jorge] Lorenzo, Valentino [Rossi], [Andrea] Dovizioso, and they have all beaten him. So there’s no reason to say I couldn’t have done also."
It is ridiculous to sit here and .... on the obvious likelihood of him still being a possible winner when you look at this season over some grievance we harbor about him retiring. Second, he did put his balls on the line to support his statement, Marc's handlers and Honda chickenshitness prevented it (fact).
No matter what Stoner replied to this question he was gonna be .... on, regardless that his statement is as he put it, likely, "there a lot of things that suggest I could." His isn't the statement some of you are disputing, he isn't giving any absurd "guarantees".
JP, i noticed you soured on Casey since he didn't fulfil many of our misplaced hopes that he would wildcard. Sure it's disappointing, but he has no reason to prove anything, especially now that he's happy with his family life, which I can appreciate. I find it fascinating that some of you here, particularly you and others who are skeptical of Dovi, who has beat Marquez on 5 occasion this year, twice a last lap duel, something that if we sat around debating hypothetically, would have offered our first borns that nobody ever ( least being Dovi) could best the great Marc in a last lap duel; glad this hypothetical debate has an answer. Nonetheless, in this hypothetical debate, Stoner saying there is a decent likelyhood and evidence to support he could beat Marquez and we object? That's a bit disconnected.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Comment on what he actually said:
“People always ask me if I could beat him [Marquez], and there a lot of things that suggest I could,” Stoner said in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.
“I won against [Jorge] Lorenzo, Valentino [Rossi], [Andrea] Dovizioso, and they have all beaten him. So there’s no reason to say I couldn’t have done also."
It is ridiculous to sit here and .... on the obvious likelihood of him still being a possible winner when you look at this season over some grievance we harbor about him retiring. Second, he did put his balls on the line to support his statement, Marc's handlers and Honda chickenshitness prevented it (fact).
No matter what Stoner replied to this question he was gonna be .... on, regardless that his statement is as he put it, likely, "there a lot of things that suggest I could." His isn't the statement some of you are disputing, he isn't giving any absurd "guarantees".
JP, i noticed you soured on Casey since he didn't fulfil many of our misplaced hopes that he would wildcard. Sure it's disappointing, but he has no reason to prove anything, especially now that he's happy with his family life, which I can appreciate. I find it fascinating that some of you here, particularly you and others who are skeptical of Dovi, who has beat Marquez on 5 occasion this year, twice a last lap duel, something that if we sat around debating hypothetically, would have offered our first borns that nobody ever ( least being Dovi) could best the great Marc in a last lap duel; glad this hypothetical debate has an answer. Nonetheless, in this hypothetical debate, Stoner saying there is a decent likelyhood and evidence to support he could beat Marquez and we object? That's a bit disconnected.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
What did CS say to lead you to conclude this was a psychological exercise in an attempt to convince himself, particularly shallow as you suggested because he remains retired? I didn't read it this way at all pal, he told us he's asked repeatedly this question, it's US ( proxy by reporters as it goes) that seem "need convincing" or rather "reporters" think we need to be convinced of such a hypothetical, tapping in to our wondering 'what if' Marc and Casey raced. He is being asked the question, he's not tweeting 'yo, I just caught this great fish on the lake, btw I could totally beat Marquez.'
I agree, it would have been awesome to see these two on the same ...... Honda over a season, ha!
The tone of this statement suggests to highlight your conclusion that Stoner is conveniently saying this without any determination to prove otherwise. It doesn't seem like your intention here to point out the obvious regarding questions of debate, though i disagree with your overall suggestion that Stoner conveniently can sit on the lake and answer such inquiry; notwithstanding, that's precisely the point of moot points.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Sure, if he feels the need to come out and say this spontaneously it is problematic imo.
However if it is the usual story of being repeatedly asked a question by reporters looking for controversy/clickbait then he can't really be expected to say"MM would have smashed me" and his response is reasonable for the reasons you (and he) give; he is in all truth still able to go close to Dovi's times as a test rider 5 years retired, did easily beat him on supposedly equal bikes at HRC where Dovi in fact adopted his settings, was actually prepared to wildcard against MM with MM's crew/management reputedly opposing same etc.
When exactly?. When Rossi lost his bike and left the track to maintain position which would be illegal now if it wasn't then and would have torpedoed him if not for rapid evasive action by Stoner who was riding a bike in all likelihood 1.5 seconds a lap slower around Laguna Seca in anyone else's hands including Rossi's rather than intrinsically a half a second a lap faster as was the belief at the time?.
All that stuff was from the Ducati days, riding a bike which was non-competitive for anyone else (including Rossi in all likelihood) and just wouldn't turn, as has been revealed by the experience of many subsequent riders including Rossi. Stoner rode the Ducati of his time the only way it could be ridden competitively, which involved nearly crashing it on every corner by the testimony of JB and Rossi themselves who had access to his telemetry when they undertook their Ducati adventure, and you think he should have hung back to dogfight nimble Yamahas?.
I agree to the extent that I think MM's overall approach is much more conducive to longevity as a premier class rider. Stoner had to really wind himself up to ride with the focus he had in 2007 and 2011, at apparently significant personal cost, a major reason why he no longer races, while what MM does seems to be as natural as breathing for him, he is a natural born shark as Jumkie says.
The peak Stoner of 2007 and 2011, years where he was really motivated to prove the world wrong, rode basically perfectly and mistake-free with absolute focus and allowed nothing to phase him, against MM would have been a battle for the ages imo, which is why many on here deeply regret it never occurred; it may have come down to what Nakamoto actually said, Marc has faster reflexes but Casey is a genius on a bike. MM is well in the conversation as the all-time great rider, but can be beaten as Dovi has shown, and not least by himself as the 2015 season demonstrated, and HRC themselves reputedly had a concern that Stoner wildcarding as his team-mate might increase the already high likelihood of him throwing his bike down the road that year. Admittedly current MM seems to have learned to ride in a more measured fashion.
I hate to raise the development card so beloved of Rossi fans over the ages, but it is also not impossible Stoner might have an advantage in that aspect.
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Context is everything. The question asked would seem to be, more accurately, would 27 year-old Stoner be able to beat MM.
Answer: of course.
Would 32 year-old Stoner be able to do it?
As has been already said, some races, but championships? Not likely.
Answer: of course.
Would 32 year-old Stoner be able to do it?
As has been already said, some races, but championships? Not likely.
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Sucked you in then didn't it LOL.
Maybe Stoner did have a talent, but he threw it out the window with the bathwater, the whinging and whining, was like a fan with a dry bearing.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Sure I've soured because he runs around testing bikes making proclamations about how competitive he is based on testing times which means ....-all in the grand scheme of things. Testing is not a race. Mind you I do think he would be competitive certainly if he chose to wild card, but unless he does that, his testing times don't really matter at the end of the day. There is no title given for top testing sheets, and surely there is no championship given either for the same thing. For a guy who pretty much ran away from GP, even he can't fully stay away which is my whole thing of put up or shut up. Shoe up and get back out there are stay the .... home with your family and don't do anything GP related including testing. Would he beat MM in individual races? Sure. Over the course of a championship? Not anymore.
Dovi besting MM at the last corner of a track that favored Ducati massively in 2016, and suddenly watched that advantage evaporate the following year speaks volumes. I've said it multiple times, the real story was not that Dovi won the race, it was that HRC sorted the bike out enough for Marc that the Ducati horsepower advantage was not nearly enough to let the Desmosedici run away with the race. I maintain Marc's only mistake was showing his hand too early with the overtakes in turns 5 and 6 as he had an immense amount of corner speed there that was hard for anyone to match. It allowed Dovi to prepare a reasonable defense in those sections since he could better defend in the hard braking zone of the final corner. MM made a banzai move that was never going to take and was lucky he didn't wind up on his ... frankly with the move which while breathtaking in audacity, was IMO ill-advised. But it's racing and only he would have ever attempted it which speaks to who he is as a racer and why he is on the cusp of a possible 4th world championship.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
They would have been paired up on the 2013 and 2014 RCV's which were never the bikes I've said had issues. It was the 2015, 2016, and part of 2017 RCV's that had the most issues. Who knows though, had Stoner still been racing, maybe the 2015 engine that HRC went with never goes through and 2015 unfolds entirely differently with a HRC world title rather than the Lorenzo/Rossi battle. Interesting possibility to muse. I do like the thought of Stoner not quitting because the midget would have been punted right out Repsol Honda instead of holding onto that seat long past his sell-by-date.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I personally thought it was criminal that it happened. COTA would have been quite an amazing race had that wild card gone through.
Just for my information, when has he made proclamations as to his possible current competitiveness based on times in current/recent testing?. His fans including me have been wont to do so at times, but not him to my knowledge. Even with this current thing he has based his contention on being competitive when he was racing against riders who have been competitive against MM; cheap talk I agree if he feels the need to make such a claim spontaneously to the world at large, not so bad in response to being repeatedly asked by journalists imo.
I thought it was 2015 when Dani was out to have surgery on his clavicle because the internal fixation device was causing vascular problems, when the bike was problematic and MM was prone to throwing it down the road, which HRC thought trying to best Stoner might further prompt him to do.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Stoner on the Ducati reminds me of Senna driving the Lotus or Lawson the 89 Honda. Talk whatever you like for me these are extremely rare moments where I witnessed drivers doing basically the impossible. Sure Schumi and now Hamilton have more championships, would either drive the Lotus faster than Senna? Could Marquez have piloted the 07 Duc to the championship ahead of Stoner?
For me no, don’t care if he wins 20 championships on a Honda give him Stoners career path riding ...... bikes and second rate tires for years he wouldn’t have done any better. In fact I think it would have broken him. Like I said crashing on a factory Honda is nothing like crashing a crap satelight bike on second tier Mishitelins. By the same token give Hamilton Sennas career path he would be a flop. What you have with Senna and Stoner are drivers all the others look up to and admit ok what they could do, that’s impossible it can’t be replicated.
For me no, don’t care if he wins 20 championships on a Honda give him Stoners career path riding ...... bikes and second rate tires for years he wouldn’t have done any better. In fact I think it would have broken him. Like I said crashing on a factory Honda is nothing like crashing a crap satelight bike on second tier Mishitelins. By the same token give Hamilton Sennas career path he would be a flop. What you have with Senna and Stoner are drivers all the others look up to and admit ok what they could do, that’s impossible it can’t be replicated.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Senna's pole lap at Adelaide 1985 was on the absolute limit. Watch how the car just dances on the limit of grip.
Mesmerizing to watch. You can hear him blipping the throttle repeatedly to keep the boost pressure from dropping. One of the things that made him absolutely magical behind the wheel. I do agree that the comparison between he and Stoner on the ability is apt, and their technical feedback was legendary. Senna never quit though. You could argue it was that unwillingness that cost him his life, but he would not ever settle for giving up, which is more of what Marquez is made of. And Wayne Rainey for that matter.
