<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 3 2010, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So there you go. Not convinced but full of positive hope for Spies.
Like you said, many believe 5th is going to be possible but to dislodge one of the top four is going to be a tough and telling feat. I think Spies will come close.
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
Like you said, many believe 5th is going to be possible but to dislodge one of the top four is going to be a tough and telling feat. I think Spies will come close.
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 4 2010, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like you said, many believe 5th is going to be possible but to dislodge one of the top four is going to be a tough and telling feat. I think Spies will come close.
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
Well, things change and I believe that Tech3 have better riders and better bikes than ever before. If tests so far are anything to go by I see no reason why they shouldn't be as successful as Honda satellite bikes once was.
I'll agree that the competition is tough though but all current title ship contenders of today have had quite a rocket ship start. Ok Stoner didn't win any races first season but pole on first race gotta count for something. What I try to say that the great ones show greatness quite soon. They don't wait around a season or two before they show potential and that's what Ben have to show. Not steady 5th but rather a couple of podiums and a couple of tenths. Besides 5th are taken by his team mate
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
Well, things change and I believe that Tech3 have better riders and better bikes than ever before. If tests so far are anything to go by I see no reason why they shouldn't be as successful as Honda satellite bikes once was.
I'll agree that the competition is tough though but all current title ship contenders of today have had quite a rocket ship start. Ok Stoner didn't win any races first season but pole on first race gotta count for something. What I try to say that the great ones show greatness quite soon. They don't wait around a season or two before they show potential and that's what Ben have to show. Not steady 5th but rather a couple of podiums and a couple of tenths. Besides 5th are taken by his team mate
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Mar 4 2010, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Ben will be kicking Pedrosa's ... toward the end of the season. I'd even bet that he'll finish the year ahead in points.
Thats a bold claim, although i'm starting to wonder about Dani. I think he could even be demoted from his 'alien' status before the seasons over.
Thats a bold claim, although i'm starting to wonder about Dani. I think he could even be demoted from his 'alien' status before the seasons over.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Mar 4 2010, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Ben will be kicking Pedrosa's ... toward the end of the season. I'd even bet that he'll finish the year ahead in points.
If we were going strictly by the test results from Sepang - I'd jump on your
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
If we were going strictly by the test results from Sepang - I'd jump on your
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Mar 4 2010, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If we were going strictly by the test results from Sepang - I'd jump on your
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
My thoughts exactly - completely agree.
Pedro is undertaking his first Moto GP season unencumbered by any injury. Furthermore, this is his fifth year, and he knows exactly what he has to do - and what's expected. Let's not forget his runner up placing in '07 (albeit on a dinky toy designed solely for him), and his two third places in consecutive years. He was also fifth in his rookie year.
I really see a three way battle all season between Spies, Dovi and Colin - ultimately for fifth in the final standings. A fourth place slot could come to either of them by default.
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
My thoughts exactly - completely agree.
Pedro is undertaking his first Moto GP season unencumbered by any injury. Furthermore, this is his fifth year, and he knows exactly what he has to do - and what's expected. Let's not forget his runner up placing in '07 (albeit on a dinky toy designed solely for him), and his two third places in consecutive years. He was also fifth in his rookie year.
I really see a three way battle all season between Spies, Dovi and Colin - ultimately for fifth in the final standings. A fourth place slot could come to either of them by default.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 4 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats a bold claim, although i'm starting to wonder about Dani. <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%I think he could even be demoted from his 'alien' status before the seasons over.
i don't think or have i ever thought that dani was on the same level as rossi, stoner or lorenzo. i think he is actually a couple of ticks below & just above the rest of the pack. he's between a rock & a hard place.
i don't think or have i ever thought that dani was on the same level as rossi, stoner or lorenzo. i think he is actually a couple of ticks below & just above the rest of the pack. he's between a rock & a hard place.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Mar 4 2010, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If we were going strictly by the test results from Sepang - I'd jump on your
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
race craft..... what race craft do you speak of? face it being a good starter & going fast all by yourself is not exactly great racecraft. i think you're giving him to much credit. until he learns how to fight & come out on top then maybe we can say he's got some respectable race craft.
bandwagon in a flash. Would love to see it happen. But if Honda gets it's
.... together and sorts out the new Italian electronics and the Ohlins shocks
Big Ben will won't easily get ahead of the light-weight Pedro when his
hole-shot mojo's working. Dani may not be a scrapper - but let's not lose
sight of the number of podiums he's achieved and the <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%race craft needed
to achieve those podiums. If however Pedrosa flounders around while
adjusting to the new equipment - anything is possible.
race craft..... what race craft do you speak of? face it being a good starter & going fast all by yourself is not exactly great racecraft. i think you're giving him to much credit. until he learns how to fight & come out on top then maybe we can say he's got some respectable race craft.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Mar 4 2010, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>race craft..... what race craft do you speak of? face it being a good starter & going fast all by yourself is not exactly great racecraft. i think you're giving him to much credit. until he learns how to fight & come out on top then maybe we can say he's got some respectable race craft.
I'd say all three of Dani's championships came from his racecraft as opposed to outright speed Frost. When he raced in 125's and 250's he used to regularly toy with the field in distinct Rossiesque style. Actually, he reminded me of Steady Eddie. I hear what you're saying though. Most of his race wins have come from breaking away and racing himself - he's no paint trader any more. This however requires an immense focus in itself. I suppose in these situations we have seen him respond where necessary (doubtless fed by spurious pit board data from Puig) and we've seen him put the hammer down while his tyres were at their max. He rode a superb race at Le Mans last year to catch and take Dovi on the last lap, and while we may not see an instant return to the finesse and guile that characterised his riding in the lower classes - that racecraft that Keshav refers to is definitely in him.
I'd say all three of Dani's championships came from his racecraft as opposed to outright speed Frost. When he raced in 125's and 250's he used to regularly toy with the field in distinct Rossiesque style. Actually, he reminded me of Steady Eddie. I hear what you're saying though. Most of his race wins have come from breaking away and racing himself - he's no paint trader any more. This however requires an immense focus in itself. I suppose in these situations we have seen him respond where necessary (doubtless fed by spurious pit board data from Puig) and we've seen him put the hammer down while his tyres were at their max. He rode a superb race at Le Mans last year to catch and take Dovi on the last lap, and while we may not see an instant return to the finesse and guile that characterised his riding in the lower classes - that racecraft that Keshav refers to is definitely in him.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Mar 4 2010, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If we were going strictly by the test results from Sepang - I'd jump on your
bandwagon in a flash.
Dude, the Kool Aid they serve on board is killer!
bandwagon in a flash.
Dude, the Kool Aid they serve on board is killer!
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Mar 4 2010, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't think or have i ever thought that dani was on the same level as rossi, stoner or lorenzo. i think he is actually a couple of ticks below & just above the rest of the pack. he's between a rock & a hard place.
Yea. FWIW, I've always seen the situation as "3.5 Aliens." Pedro can be fast on his day, but he lacks the consistency to 'be there' week after week. Last year featured way too many distant 3rd/4th place finishes; running alone, far behind leaders.
Yea. FWIW, I've always seen the situation as "3.5 Aliens." Pedro can be fast on his day, but he lacks the consistency to 'be there' week after week. Last year featured way too many distant 3rd/4th place finishes; running alone, far behind leaders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 4 2010, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like you said, many believe 5th is going to be possible but to dislodge one of the top four is going to be a tough and telling feat. I think Spies will come close.
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
SackWack.........i think Ben is a real talent probably the best American since Rainey, but theres no way Yamaha have given him a Satelite bike to use, id be willing to bet money that his bike is the same if not similar to Rossi and J-Lo bike. If thats the case then he will be on the best bike there is and if he finishes fifth on that then he hasd Under Performed.
Let us not forget how many satelite bikes have won in the 800cc era?? How many have come even close to winning? I would also note the level of competition is pretty high and pretty close in that top group. To say that Spies needs to regularly be up there with them, for a rookie on a satelite bike is a tall order don't you think?
Let's not stack the cards too high against the rookie
SackWack.........i think Ben is a real talent probably the best American since Rainey, but theres no way Yamaha have given him a Satelite bike to use, id be willing to bet money that his bike is the same if not similar to Rossi and J-Lo bike. If thats the case then he will be on the best bike there is and if he finishes fifth on that then he hasd Under Performed.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gixxer K9 @ Mar 4 2010, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>SackWack.........i think Ben is a real talent probably the best American since Rainey, but theres no way Yamaha have given him a Satelite bike to use, id be willing to bet money that his bike is the same if not similar to Rossi and J-Lo bike. If thats the case then he will be on the best bike there is and if he finishes fifth on that then he hasd Under Performed.
I am not sure that he will necessarily get quite a full factory bike at least initially, although this could change later in the year depending on the championship situation, whether jorge is staying or going etc. I will be surprised if he does not beat edwards, particularly since he does not seem to share colin's problem of replicating practice form in races, and I would expect him to beat dovi unless this year's factory honda is markedly superior to his bike. With a full-factory yamaha, he might give the whole field something to worry about in individual races such as laguna seca by mid to late season.
I am not sure that he will necessarily get quite a full factory bike at least initially, although this could change later in the year depending on the championship situation, whether jorge is staying or going etc. I will be surprised if he does not beat edwards, particularly since he does not seem to share colin's problem of replicating practice form in races, and I would expect him to beat dovi unless this year's factory honda is markedly superior to his bike. With a full-factory yamaha, he might give the whole field something to worry about in individual races such as laguna seca by mid to late season.
I think that things have gotten a little out of hand.. Spies will run in the top 10. I don't think he will beat CEII in the standings. Spies is a rookie.. a highly talented one..but still a rookie.
It took Lorenzo a year to get things together.. Let's give Spies his learning year before he is beating Edwards and Dovi in the standings.
It took Lorenzo a year to get things together.. Let's give Spies his learning year before he is beating Edwards and Dovi in the standings.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Mar 5 2010, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think that things have gotten a little out of hand.. Spies will run in the top 10. I don't think he will beat CEII in the standings. Spies is a rookie.. a highly talented one..but still a rookie.
It took Lorenzo a year to get things together.. Let's give Spies his learning year before he is beating Edwards and Dovi in the standings.
Admittedly lorenzo had a full factory bike, but his problems in his first season were crashes and injuries rather than lack of pace. Jorge is obviously extremely fast, so I don't think we can be sure from his superbike efforts that spies will be as fast, but his previous form does indicate spies is a cerebral and calculating rider and I don't think this will change in motogp; I would be very surprised if he goes in for jorge-style massive high-sides this year.
It took Lorenzo a year to get things together.. Let's give Spies his learning year before he is beating Edwards and Dovi in the standings.
Admittedly lorenzo had a full factory bike, but his problems in his first season were crashes and injuries rather than lack of pace. Jorge is obviously extremely fast, so I don't think we can be sure from his superbike efforts that spies will be as fast, but his previous form does indicate spies is a cerebral and calculating rider and I don't think this will change in motogp; I would be very surprised if he goes in for jorge-style massive high-sides this year.
I would also like to add that supposedly Marco has factory equipment as well, this doesn't always add up to full factory support.
Supposedly all of the Hondas are on equal footing right now except for the electronics package and Respsol Hondas getting refinement upgrades.
All Ducati riders are pretty much on the same package as well. I would guess that at this point in the season that all of the Yamahas are really close in performance as well.
All Ducati riders are pretty much on the same package as well. I would guess that at this point in the season that all of the Yamahas are really close in performance as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Mar 5 2010, 05:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Supposedly all of the Hondas are on equal footing right now except for the electronics package and Respsol Hondas getting refinement upgrades.
All Ducati riders are pretty much on the same package as well. I would guess that at this point in the season that all of the Yamahas are really close in performance as well.
The bigger question has usually been what bikes the satellite teams end up with rather than what they start with, but the engine rule may at least partially change this; do the precise six engines have to be specified at the start of the year and can the unused ones be changed at all during the course of the season prior to being brought into use?
All Ducati riders are pretty much on the same package as well. I would guess that at this point in the season that all of the Yamahas are really close in performance as well.
The bigger question has usually been what bikes the satellite teams end up with rather than what they start with, but the engine rule may at least partially change this; do the precise six engines have to be specified at the start of the year and can the unused ones be changed at all during the course of the season prior to being brought into use?
