Spies - on rider health and forum "health experts"

[Keshav]

"We had [at Mid Ohio] ... we didn't know where - we thought we knew where it came from, and now that everything's fine, we're good, but I had a straight horrible bacterial infection going on, that I was trying to fight, and I was having ... every night I was breaking into 102-103 degree fevers. The bed would completely be soaked with sweat, waking up.

One of my best friends, Jamie (Hacking), he saw what I was going through that weekend. I came into the race seven pounds lighter than I'd been all year long, and when you drop that much weight, it's horrible on your immune system and your body. I was coming in from qualifying and I could not keep anything in me. I was just going to the bathroom like, honestly, 25 times a day. It was ridiculous. It was one of those points, too, you didn't want to talk about it, because you didn't know what the hell was going on. We soldiered through it and had a couple - I don't know, I think we might have finished second in both races. That was one of those things that the trash talking and all the stuff that goes on at that point, is pretty much, you're just laughing, because they think they know what they're talking about, but they have no clue. And actually, the people that knew about it were quite stupid for even saying anything."

 

[BarryMachine]

Forward Message >> >>> >>> Talpa: Mdubgay, etc. etc and etc,

 

[Mick D]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 15 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"We soldiered through it and... finished second in both races.
When you ride through it like that... then you are allowed to say stuff like this...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 15 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"That was one of those things that the trash talking and all the stuff that goes on at that point, is pretty much, you're just laughing, because they think they know what they're talking about, but they have no clue. And actually, the people that knew about it were quite stupid for even saying anything."
Nice attempt at taking an normal racing issue unfolding over the course of a weekend and trying to spin it to suit your viewpoint... Slick using a Ben quote since he's so hot and topical at the moment... When you find a racer's opinion resulting from a similar cause-of-the-sickness-unknown, third-of-a-season-affecting issue, feel free to post it... oh yeah... its unique.

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 15 2009, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When you ride through it like that... then you are allowed to say stuff like this...


Nice attempt at taking an normal racing issue unfolding over the course of a weekend and trying to spin it to suit your viewpoint... Slick using a Ben quote since he's so hot and topical at the moment... When you find a racer's opinion resulting from a similar cause-of-the-sickness-unknown, third-of-a-season-affecting issue, feel free to post it... oh yeah... its unique.


Nice attempt at muddying the water by denigrating a salient quote
that soundly ridicules all people who shat on Stoner when he was ill.

How do you get that it's an <u>"attempt"</u> to support a point. The quote is a dead-on
unvarnished kick in the balls to all the mean-spirited, self-serving "medical experts"
who went out their way to spitefully kick a champion when he was down.

And I, like a lot of other people, don't acknowledge you (or anyone else's) authority
to determine when a racer is permitted to express publicly his concern over issues of
health. You and I are merely fans. Stoner may not be manly enough to suit some
people - and that's their problem, but I really think that if someone is a real sportsman
- they don't kick a guy when he's down and that people who do it are arm-chair quarterback
......s. And apparently Spies (not exactly a touchy-feely kinda guy) feels the same way.

 

[VHMP01]

Most of us kick the Riders while they down Keshav, in a fun way with jokes, especially when no injure is present, we even do it in our daily lives with silly things that happen to us. For example:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2008, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi's ego is injured! Quick, somebody call

A thousand times Effendi - I thank you for this!

Even though…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 20 2008, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just ......' amazing! Never been a Rossi fan - till now. I'm won over. I've admired Stoner for being the upstart and all . . . but really, the whining crybaby thing, is hard to take. I mean ...., it's racing, not canasta. I really hope the kid toughens up. If he keeps trading paint with Rossi, he'll have to. BTW - Pinky doesn't seem to be around at all the last few days. He took a hint, maybe?

So I'll give you that one!

 

[Keshav]

Most of us kick the Riders while they down Keshav, in a fun way with jokes, specially when no injure is present, we even do it in our daily lives with silly things that happen to us. For example:

QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 26 2008, 01:12 PM)
Rossi's ego is injured! Quick, somebody call

<u>A thousand times Effendi - I thank you for this!</u> This was my response to someone who
was pointing out Rossi's hypocrisy. Not really kicking a man when he was down


Even though…

QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 20 2008, 04:23 PM)
<u>Just ......' amazing! Never been a Rossi fan - till now. I'm won over. I've admired Stoner for being the upstart and all . . . but really, the whining crybaby thing, is hard to take. I mean ...., it's racing, not canasta. I really hope the kid toughens up. If he keeps trading paint with Rossi, he'll have to. BTW - Pinky doesn't seem to be around at all the last few days. He took a hint, maybe?</u>


The 2nd post was a tad out of character for me. Must have really been feeling the
ol' testosterone that day. Rossi's over-the-top riding in order to beat the much
faster Stoner was really impressive and really brought out that side of me.
I still think the famous Laguna pass on the inside was out of control and not
what I'd call a clean pass. It wasn't as bad as Tyson biting Holyfield's ear
but definitely not a clean pass. Again ... tho no-one got hurt that day and I think
- Stoner would have done himself a world of good PR-wise to shake the incident
off, but he was having those darned inconvenient feelings that everyone are
so critical of.

 

[Talpa]

Firstly, well done VH......you are the king at ....... up the haters!!!Nailed and owned Kers here...and the attempted backpedal was very humorous Kers

Please note also that Spies pushed on to get 2 second places, doesn't mind competing even when victory is completely out of the question. I'm hoping Spies will be the best thing to happen to Motogp since Rossi.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 15 2009, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Firstly, well done VH......you are the king at ....... up the haters!!!Nailed and owned Kers here...and the attempted backpedal was very humorous Kers

Please note also that Spies pushed on to get 2 second places, doesn't mind competing even when victory is completely out of the question. I'm hoping Spies will be the best thing to happen to Motogp since Rossi.
How did you get there from where this started? Call me wedded to aristotlean logic, but I again can't see how your conclusion follows from your argument. Spies makes a comment in the negative about the making of medical diagnoses by the ignorant on internet sites, keshav draws an implication regarding stoner's situation which spies may well have intended, and it ends with you complimenting V on smiting a rossi hater. On this occasion rossi was not mentioned, but keshav defending stoner somehow qualifies as rossi hating; admittedly I have no claim to being a lateral thinker, and perhaps my confusion reflects this

.

I also have considerable time for spies, and he may well eventually prove to be better than the current junior aliens/young contenders (or pretenders as the case may be in your opinion). He is ice-cold, and appears to have mental strength to match anyone. I guess he must be a rossi-hater as well though since according to julian ryder he was rather impressed with what casey was doing with the ducati in the valencia practice and qualifying.

I presume bubba stewart whom I would have thought was fairly close to personifying bravery in a rider also qualifies as an effete wimp now that he has a semi-chronic as yet not precisely diagnosed non-orthopaedic ailment; he must have been intimidated by chad reed whilst beating him in the supercross this year

.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 15 2009, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How did you get there from where this started? Call me wedded to aristotlean logic, but I again can't see how your conclusion follows from your argument. Spies makes a comment in the negative about the making of medical diagnoses by the ignorant on internet sites, keshav draws an implication regarding stoner's situation which spies may well have intended, and it ends with you complimenting V on smiting a rossi hater. On this occasion rossi was not mentioned, but keshav defending stoner somehow qualifies as rossi hating; admittedly I have no claim to being a lateral thinker, and perhaps my confusion reflects this .

I just got in at the bit where it said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 15 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but I really think that if someone is a real sportsman - they don't kick a guy when he's down and that people who do it are arm-chair quarterback ......s.


So I pointed out that at most errors and silly accidents that Riders do, as long as there is no injury, we laugh and ‘kick a man while they are down’. As much as my mate Keshav was criticizing this, he also does it. The irony is that he even did it to his favorite rider Stoner:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 20 2008, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just ......' amazing! Never been a Rossi fan - till now. I'm won over. I've admired Stoner for being the upstart and all . . . but really, the whining crybaby thing, is hard to take. I mean ...., it's racing, not canasta. I really hope the kid toughens up. If he keeps trading paint with Rossi, he'll have to. BTW - Pinky doesn't seem to be around at all the last few days. He took a hint, maybe?

That’s where I got there from, Michael bro.

 

[VHMP01]

I was even remembering the one time, with an injured Gibernau, in which the ambulance went on and crashed before getting him to the Hospital (I am glad things did not turn badly) but it was funny and a millions jokes came out of it. So, sometimes we (I include myself and not for being a bad person) do it even if there’s an injured Rider. Sorry for this cases!

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 16 2009, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As much as my mate Keshav was criticizing this, he also does it. The irony is that he even did it to his favorite rider Stoner:



That’s where I got there from, Michael bro.
You would seem to have a similarly retentive memory to mine, arguably not of much use for anything in these days of the information nirvana other than attempting and seeking internal consistency in internet forum posting

.

In keshav's defence I think the initial reaction to both the laguna seca 2008 race in general and the corkscrew pass/non-pass (as the case may be) in particular changing upon some reflection is neither unreasonable or unique to him. Stoner himself in more recent discussions perhaps having taken into account the attitude of many including kevin schwantz and mat mladin now seems to regard it as a racing incident, as do I, and keshav's attitude to stoner's response may also have changed without this being unreasonable.

I can see your point that whilst not necessarily admirable it is not uncommon for men to be kicked when down either on here or in life in general, but not so much talpa's implication that the employment of spies' recent statement regarding his own illness in defence of stoner's earlier putative ailment and consequent behaviour constitutes rossi hating

.

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 15 2009, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Firstly, well done VH......you are the king at ....... up the haters!!!Nailed and owned Kers here...and the attempted backpedal was very humorous Kers

Please note also that Spies pushed on to get 2 second places, doesn't mind competing even when victory is completely out of the question. I'm hoping Spies will be the best thing to happen to Motogp since Rossi.

Jeez - you're as bad as the "Love it or leave it." crowd. Like the ones who say that any
criticism of any govt. policy makes you a sponsor of terrorism. Anything that isn't direct
praise of Rossi (in your mind) contravenes hate for Rossi. Your fever pitched hysteria
must make you a fun guy to hang around with. You may have noticed I've just about
never replied to anything you say. That's because it's like trying have a dialog with a
two-year old. I hope Rossi does stick around for a while - but honestly, when Rossi quits
racing, I'll be glad because people like you will be too busy laying wreathes at his
doorstep and lamenting his passing like the crazy old women who visit the grave of
the other Valentino, and the folks who are actual racing fans won't have to be distracted
by your fan-girl derangement. With more rational forum personalities I can have a
debate; but all you're capable of is yet another cat-fight.

 

[Keshav]

RE:

So I pointed out that at most errors and silly accidents that Riders do, as long as there is no injury, we laugh and ‘kick a man while they are down’. As much as my mate Keshav was criticizing this, he also does it. The irony is that he even did it to his favorite rider Stoner:

QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 20 2008, 04:23 PM)
Just ......' amazing! Never been a Rossi fan - till now. I'm won over. I've admired Stoner for being the upstart and all . . . but really, the whining crybaby thing, is hard to take. I mean ...., it's racing, not canasta. I really hope the kid toughens up. If he keeps trading paint with Rossi, he'll have to. BTW - Pinky doesn't seem to be around at all the last few days. He took a hint, maybe?


That’s where I got there from, Michael bro.

Take note hermano; the statement from Michael was directed at Talpa not you.

 

[Mick D]

Since your reading retention obviously sucks, I'll point where the issues lie Kesh (& Michael?...). Ben ONLY dissed one group... those, "in-the-know" whose "lips flapped"... others just "had no clue"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 15 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"That was one of those things that the trash talking and all the stuff that goes on at that point, is pretty much, you're just laughing, because they think they know what they're talking about, but they have no clue. And actually, the people that knew about it were quite stupid for even saying anything."
Keep trying though... I'd love to find a reference to Stoner's unique situation elsewhere...

Ben was sick for a weekend and shat on those in-the-know who leaked this info to his rivals 'cause he didn't want the weakness to be known - how does this relate to Stoners 1/3rd season wasting illness? How does it relate to or solve the mystery of the cause of his illness? You're a marksman Kesh... dead on...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 16 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You would seem to have a similarly retentive memory to mine...
Cummon mike, kesh's issues are more in the comprehension of new data/info... his memory is fine...

 

[Keshav]

Since your reading retention obviously sucks, I'll point where the issues lie Kesh (& Michael?...). Ben ONLY dissed one group... those, "in-the-know" whose "lips flapped"... others just "had no clue"
QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 15 2009, 03:17 AM)

"That was one of those things that the trash talking and all the stuff that goes on at that point, is pretty much, you're just laughing, because they think they know what they're talking about, but they have no clue. And actually, the people that knew about it were quite stupid for even saying anything."

Keep trying though... I'd love to find a reference to Stoner's unique situation elsewhere... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

My point of reference was to Spies lack of regard for people who were trash talking about a sick
rider. He wasn't specifically targeting the Stoner-bashers per se, but rather <u>a category of people</u> who spout medical opinion without benefit of any real knowledge of the situation. So the comment was not directed at anyone's "unique" situation, but rather at lip-flapping "medical experts".

 

[Austin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 16 2009, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since your reading retention obviously sucks, I'll point where the issues lie Kesh (& Michael?...). Ben ONLY dissed one group... those, "in-the-know" whose "lips flapped"... others just "had no clue"

Keep trying though... I'd love to find a reference to Stoner's unique situation elsewhere...

Ben was sick for a weekend and shat on those in-the-know who leaked this info to his rivals 'cause he didn't want the weakness to be known - how does this relate to Stoners 1/3rd season wasting illness? How does it relate to or solve the mystery of the cause of his illness? You're a marksman Kesh... dead on...

Cummon mike, kesh's issues are more in the comprehension of new data/info... his memory is fine...

The paragraph immediately following what Kesh quoted:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ben Spies)<div class='quotemain'>But we fought through it, and that was ... it was tough. The first year, we had to race the last few races when my hand was messed up a little bit. And then when that happened last year, last year was way worse than riding with a broken hand. It was no fun. But everything got straightened out, but it wasn't just that race weekend, it was the week in the hospital before that, the two weeks after that. I was so bad, I just stayed at Jamie's house, and we didn't train, didn't do anything. I had to get over what was happening. It was pretty rough. I don't wish that on anybody.
Sounds to me like Spies was sick for the better part of a month. Not the same as Stoner, but definitely more than a weekend.

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 16 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since your reading retention obviously sucks, I'll point where the issues lie Kesh (& Michael?...). Ben ONLY dissed one group... those, "in-the-know" whose "lips flapped"... others just "had no clue"

Keep trying though... I'd love to find a reference to Stoner's unique situation elsewhere...

Ben was sick for a weekend and shat on those in-the-know who leaked this info to his rivals 'cause he didn't want the weakness to be known - how does this relate to Stoners 1/3rd season wasting illness? How does it relate to or solve the mystery of the cause of his illness? You're a marksman Kesh... dead on...

Cummon mike, kesh's issues are more in the comprehension of new data/info... his memory is fine...

The number of days Stoner was ill - was not ever the issue. It was
whether or not he was genuinely ill. And people who had no clue
- perfectly describes all the anti-Stoner types who were deriding
him so mercilessly.