Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
So Stoner is the New Doohan ..... however
- Thread starter BarryMachine
- Start date
Joined May 2006
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Mts-7
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 11 2008, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is Dani or is Lorenzo the new Criville ?
Funny connection? I though Alex was teaching Toni.
Funny connection? I though Alex was teaching Toni.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
First of all, Stoner is NOT the new Doohan! Jesus Christ man, 1 does not equal 5. Let the boy win 2, then about 4 before we start crowing him the next best thing to sliced bread.
As much I dislike Criville, he won a championship. I don't recall Lorenzo winning a race in MotoGP, and I don't recall Pedrosa winning a championship in MotoGP either. Yeah, all three are similar, in that they are all pompous arrogant .... birds, but that's it. As far as titles go, only one of this Spaniard ....-trio has actually won a championship. So why even compare them?
Don't you think you are getting way too ....... ahead of yourself? Please man, when you do this, what little objectivity you may enjoy goes totally out the window buddy.
The rest is meaningless to discuss. END OF THREAD HERE.
As much I dislike Criville, he won a championship. I don't recall Lorenzo winning a race in MotoGP, and I don't recall Pedrosa winning a championship in MotoGP either. Yeah, all three are similar, in that they are all pompous arrogant .... birds, but that's it. As far as titles go, only one of this Spaniard ....-trio has actually won a championship. So why even compare them?
Don't you think you are getting way too ....... ahead of yourself? Please man, when you do this, what little objectivity you may enjoy goes totally out the window buddy.
The rest is meaningless to discuss. END OF THREAD HERE.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 12 2008, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First of all, Stoner is NOT the new Doohan! Jesus Christ man, 1 does not equal 5. Let the boy win 2, then about 4 before we start crowing him the next best thing to sliced bread.
As much I dislike Criville, he won a championship. I don't recall Lorenzo winning a race in MotoGP, and I don't recall Pedrosa winning a championship in MotoGP either. Yeah, all three are similar, in that they are all pompous arrogant .... birds, but that's it. As far as titles go, only one of this Spaniard ....-trio has actually won a championship. So why even compare them?
Don't you think you are getting way too ....... ahead of yourself? Please man, when you do this, what little objectivity you may enjoy goes totally out the window buddy.
The rest is meaningless to discuss. END OF THREAD HERE.
But Junkie ...... Stoner is the new Doohan!! .... look I allready wrote it!! ^^^^^
Well gee Junkie ..... you guys set so much store in, and devote so much time to, a guy who has won two rounds ...... so I thought I could start my own little branch of frivolity ...... and all these wacko stories about how now Nicky was ripped by Honda are just starting
gee man can't you remember two weeks ago when everyone was saying Nicky hates the new 2008 Honda and is running the 07 ....
But then I realised .... hell Stoner has the win rates etc. that go close with the alltimes bests ...... so my internal editors said " no boys !! lets let this one run.... and see where it goes!"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 12 2008, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny connection? I though Alex was teaching Toni.
Yes and no. .... to an Australian who remembers, the only one for ages, who gave Doohan any real curry was Criville. And boy he wanted it bad some days ....... wonder if it will get like that again with Dani or Lorenzo?? Its kinda like wishful thinking really
So is there any tie up with Criville and the other Spanish riders? or has he pretty much put all his eggs in the Elias basket?
As much I dislike Criville, he won a championship. I don't recall Lorenzo winning a race in MotoGP, and I don't recall Pedrosa winning a championship in MotoGP either. Yeah, all three are similar, in that they are all pompous arrogant .... birds, but that's it. As far as titles go, only one of this Spaniard ....-trio has actually won a championship. So why even compare them?
Don't you think you are getting way too ....... ahead of yourself? Please man, when you do this, what little objectivity you may enjoy goes totally out the window buddy.
The rest is meaningless to discuss. END OF THREAD HERE.
But Junkie ...... Stoner is the new Doohan!! .... look I allready wrote it!! ^^^^^
Well gee Junkie ..... you guys set so much store in, and devote so much time to, a guy who has won two rounds ...... so I thought I could start my own little branch of frivolity ...... and all these wacko stories about how now Nicky was ripped by Honda are just starting
But then I realised .... hell Stoner has the win rates etc. that go close with the alltimes bests ...... so my internal editors said " no boys !! lets let this one run.... and see where it goes!"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 12 2008, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny connection? I though Alex was teaching Toni.
Yes and no. .... to an Australian who remembers, the only one for ages, who gave Doohan any real curry was Criville. And boy he wanted it bad some days ....... wonder if it will get like that again with Dani or Lorenzo?? Its kinda like wishful thinking really
So is there any tie up with Criville and the other Spanish riders? or has he pretty much put all his eggs in the Elias basket?
I don't think it is a good idea to equate stoner with multiple world champions until he has won multiple world championships.
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 12 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it is a good idea to equate stoner with multiple world champions until he has won multiple world championships.
No I know it looks as though I have jumped the gun ..... but I can see merits in that "Pinkile" method .... already I know several things ....
No I know it looks as though I have jumped the gun ..... but I can see merits in that "Pinkile" method .... already I know several things ....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 12 2008, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No I know it looks as though I have jumped the gun ..... but I can see merits in that "Pinkile" method .... already I know several things ....
Take a chill pill Barry.
Things are going his way and he is riding really well.
But it's early days in his career and anything can happen in the future.
The kid doesn't blow his own trumpet and I'm sure he doesn't need you doing it for him either.
Take a chill pill Barry.
Things are going his way and he is riding really well.
But it's early days in his career and anything can happen in the future.
The kid doesn't blow his own trumpet and I'm sure he doesn't need you doing it for him either.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 12 2008, 05:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, all three are similar, in that they are all pompous arrogant .... birds, but that's it.
Criville's attitude did not resemble Dani or Lorenzo, he was one of the rare nice guys.
Criville's attitude did not resemble Dani or Lorenzo, he was one of the rare nice guys.
I realise the post was tongue in cheek Barry but there is only one MD and no matter if Stoner goes on to win as many or more championships, there remains only one MD.
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2008, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Criville's attitude did not resemble Dani or Lorenzo, he was one of the rare nice guys.
Yeah he was wasn't he .... but that said I see some mannerisms of Criville in Pedrosa, although that may be a Spanish thing. Some call it arogance I see it that he is a bit quiet, not an extrovert.
I also wonder if and when Stoner will look at the possibilty of matching Doohan ...... he is afterall a past hero of Stoners, and I would suggest the biggest influence. I think he certainly seems to be exhibiting the "if you are in the same race so be it, but I'm racing me" attiitude that Doohan exhibited, as well as the ability to get out and race his own lap times.
Yeah he was wasn't he .... but that said I see some mannerisms of Criville in Pedrosa, although that may be a Spanish thing. Some call it arogance I see it that he is a bit quiet, not an extrovert.
I also wonder if and when Stoner will look at the possibilty of matching Doohan ...... he is afterall a past hero of Stoners, and I would suggest the biggest influence. I think he certainly seems to be exhibiting the "if you are in the same race so be it, but I'm racing me" attiitude that Doohan exhibited, as well as the ability to get out and race his own lap times.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Mar 12 2008, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I realise the post was tongue in cheek Barry but there is only one MD and no matter if Stoner goes on to win as many or more championships, there remains only one MD.
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
very good point. thats the test of a great racer, if they can come back strong after injury imo.
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
very good point. thats the test of a great racer, if they can come back strong after injury imo.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Mar 12 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Yes I was thinking about that bit too, its never good to see any of them injured. And Stoner has had a few crashes but seemed to avoid huge injury to date .... lets hope bikes and tracks etc, are much safer these days.
But something I see in Stoner is that he is not content to just be in front, he has to push harder, that was also Doohan ...... and sometimes I think its why he was so injured.
Yes I was thinking about that bit too, its never good to see any of them injured. And Stoner has had a few crashes but seemed to avoid huge injury to date .... lets hope bikes and tracks etc, are much safer these days.
But something I see in Stoner is that he is not content to just be in front, he has to push harder, that was also Doohan ...... and sometimes I think its why he was so injured.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 12 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think he certainly seems to be exhibiting the "if you are in the same race so be it, but I'm racing me" attiitude that Doohan exhibited, as well as the ability to get out and race his own lap times.
I think both of these observations are very valid, but I also agree with frizzle that stoner's deeds are speaking quite adequately for him themselves at the moment, and that he doesn't require any excessive triumphalism from his fans; I am a very keen fan of both him and mick.
I think both of these observations are very valid, but I also agree with frizzle that stoner's deeds are speaking quite adequately for him themselves at the moment, and that he doesn't require any excessive triumphalism from his fans; I am a very keen fan of both him and mick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 12 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think both of these observations are very valid, but I also agree with frizzle that stoner's deeds are speaking quite adequately for him themselves at the moment, and that he doesn't require any excessive triumphalism from his fans; I am a very keen fan of both him and mick.
+1
+1
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>So Stoner is the New Doohan
So when does he high side into the hay bails and nearly die?
Or was 7 crashes on raceday in 2006 supposed to be the cummulative equivalent of one life threatening crash?
So when does he high side into the hay bails and nearly die?
Or was 7 crashes on raceday in 2006 supposed to be the cummulative equivalent of one life threatening crash?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 12 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So when does he high side into the hay bails and nearly die?
Or was 7 crashes on raceday in 2006 supposed to be the cummulative equivalent of one life threatening crash?
Luck is a huge factor, isn't it? I presume the rider is not in much control in most crashes, but the consequences differ, and were often worse in those days. People should not forget the contribution past riders have made to safety; I gather rossi is the main contributor of note in recent times.
I am not giving up on nicky on a honda yet (at least a 2008 one anyway) but I would be interested in your view about nicky on a (factory) ducati; my gut feeling is it might suit him, but I don't know enough about riding to really judge.
Or was 7 crashes on raceday in 2006 supposed to be the cummulative equivalent of one life threatening crash?
Luck is a huge factor, isn't it? I presume the rider is not in much control in most crashes, but the consequences differ, and were often worse in those days. People should not forget the contribution past riders have made to safety; I gather rossi is the main contributor of note in recent times.
I am not giving up on nicky on a honda yet (at least a 2008 one anyway) but I would be interested in your view about nicky on a (factory) ducati; my gut feeling is it might suit him, but I don't know enough about riding to really judge.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 12 2008, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am not giving up on nicky on a honda yet (at least a 2008 one anyway) but I would be interested in your view about nicky on a (factory) ducati; my gut feeling is it might suit him, but I don't know enough about riding to really judge.
I'm not giving up on them either. Nicky was brilliant during the 08 during the off season.
Would the Ducati suit him. Tough to say. The extra power would certainly relieve a lot of stress he puts on the tires because he could make time on the straights rather than lose it. But the Ducati is supposed to be the most rigid bike on the grid. Rigid bikes don't suit riders who ride by the seat of their pants. Nicky uses 1 or 2 finger for each handlebar lever; he is very attuned to exactly what the bike is doing. It would take him a while to learn to manhandle the controls like Stoner.
Even if he got a ride a Ducati, what are the odds he could ride it better than Stoner? I really think Nicky is an immense talent, but he would have to ride perfectLY. Stoner makes maybe .5 secs worth of mistakes over an entire race.
I'm not giving up on them either. Nicky was brilliant during the 08 during the off season.
Would the Ducati suit him. Tough to say. The extra power would certainly relieve a lot of stress he puts on the tires because he could make time on the straights rather than lose it. But the Ducati is supposed to be the most rigid bike on the grid. Rigid bikes don't suit riders who ride by the seat of their pants. Nicky uses 1 or 2 finger for each handlebar lever; he is very attuned to exactly what the bike is doing. It would take him a while to learn to manhandle the controls like Stoner.
Even if he got a ride a Ducati, what are the odds he could ride it better than Stoner? I really think Nicky is an immense talent, but he would have to ride perfectLY. Stoner makes maybe .5 secs worth of mistakes over an entire race.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Mar 12 2008, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I realise the post was tongue in cheek Barry but there is only one MD and no matter if Stoner goes on to win as many or more championships, there remains only one MD.
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
Yes doohan got injured, but he was the one taking the risks and getting it wrong. The fact that he achieved the success justifies his actions, but the fact that he made it difficult does not increase the its worth.
And let me clarify why I rate MD so highly.
MD not just dominated but suffered a number of serious injuries during his career yet (not least being the leg injury) yet was able to remain focussed and strong enough to maintain that dominance. Whilst I realise that over the years there have been may riders who have ridden injured ther are (in my experience) very few who have suffered the level of injury yet maintained the performance of MD.
I honestly hope that we do not see this type of combination of injury and skill again but instead have the skill alone.
Garry
Yes doohan got injured, but he was the one taking the risks and getting it wrong. The fact that he achieved the success justifies his actions, but the fact that he made it difficult does not increase the its worth.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 12 2008, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes doohan got injured, but he was the one taking the risks and getting it wrong. The fact that he achieved the success justifies his actions, but the fact that he made it difficult does not increase the its worth.
I agree as we have discussed before; his error caused the crash, not that such errors were infrequent with the technology of the time. Arguably winning the world championships without crashing would have demonstrated greater skill.
His career does demonstrate that he was an incredibly tough hombre, to still be prepared to push the limits after such a crash. I am sure he would be happy to have not demonstrated his toughness so graphically; I think he would still have won the world championships but might be able to walk a little better now.
I agree as we have discussed before; his error caused the crash, not that such errors were infrequent with the technology of the time. Arguably winning the world championships without crashing would have demonstrated greater skill.
His career does demonstrate that he was an incredibly tough hombre, to still be prepared to push the limits after such a crash. I am sure he would be happy to have not demonstrated his toughness so graphically; I think he would still have won the world championships but might be able to walk a little better now.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 13 2008, 01:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree as we have discussed before; his error caused the crash, not that such errors were infrequent with the technology of the time. Arguably winning the world championships without crashing would have demonstrated greater skill.
His career does demonstrate that he was an incredibly tough hombre, to still be prepared to push the limits after such a crash. I am sure he would be happy to have not demonstrated his toughness so graphically; I think he would still have won the world championships but might be able to walk a little better now.
I think runoffs and tracks in general look a lot better/safer these days so lets hope those sort of things never happen again .... like Kato ...... never should have happened. Isn't that why they dropped Suzuka?... too dangerous ?
His career does demonstrate that he was an incredibly tough hombre, to still be prepared to push the limits after such a crash. I am sure he would be happy to have not demonstrated his toughness so graphically; I think he would still have won the world championships but might be able to walk a little better now.
I think runoffs and tracks in general look a lot better/safer these days so lets hope those sort of things never happen again .... like Kato ...... never should have happened. Isn't that why they dropped Suzuka?... too dangerous ?
