Shwantz !? Whats the go??

Tom said:

I completely disagree. I think Casey's factory ride doesn't seem as thoroughly earned as Pedrosa or Lorenzo for example who were each double 250 champions. But compared ot Spies i think Casey has definitely earned his position just as much. Especially considering Casey got hired into the 3rd best factory team, Spies has been fast tracked into the first.







Do everyone a favour and look up the word 'fact'

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Tom - He had no titles to his name in the lower classes. His LCR season in the premier class was mixed with both flashes of brilliance & a fair few mistakes.

These are facts yes?

Therefore he can consider himself reasonably fortunate to have bagged a factory ride in 2007. The performances up to that point in his career certainly didn't demand one.

Whilst I see your point on Spies, he has won titles in the AMA & was the reigning world superbike champion when he was announced as a factory Yamaha rider for next season.

Being a wsbk champ got Bayless & Edwards a factory gig in motogp so I don't think you could say Spies was lucky. This was my way of thinking, there was no need to be a smart arse on the do everyone a favour crap.

Rising Sun said:

There's no doubt that Stoner was in the right place and the right time. But if only championships count as achievements most riders never properly earn their seats. 'Properly earned'--a loaded term, if ever there was one--sounds a little too much like a certain line of thought that says championships need to be 'properly won.' Besides what about Stoner's 7000+ dirt track titles?

Well, not completely. Spies is not Yamaha's first choice for that factory seat.

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True. Spies was not Yamaha's first choice for a factory ride.



Imo, Stoner didn't need a title to justify a factory ride in 2007. Top satellite runner would have been quite prestigious given Melandri's performance. A win would probably have earned him a factory ride, or several podiums would have been a very respectable achievement. As it turned out, Stoner showed amazing pace at the beginning of the season, but as he started to fall behind (no updates) he began throwing the bike down the road in an attempt to keep up. He was a rookie, it happens.



Stoner is a burgeoning MotoGP legend, but I can't hop in my time machine and edit his performance in the second half of 2006. Stoner did have a remarkable 6 top 5s at the beginning of 2006, but in the last 8 races, he scored just 28 points and he had 5 DNFs. Rookie to rookie (not entirely fair since Spies has quite a bit more experience), Spies has 2 podiums and 8 top 5s and he's never raced on half of the circuits.



Whether or not a rider "earned" a factory ride isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, I'm simply trying to point out that Spies' problems with Suzuki have created the illusion of a slightly convoluted career. If you examine the last 4-5 years of his career, his achievements are anything but convoluted. His fallout with Suzuki was a statistical anomaly, and his performance this season, as well as his place in factory Yamaha, are both consistent with the trends in his career.

mylexicon said:

Imo, Stoner didn't need a title to justify a factory ride in 2007. Top satellite runner would have been quite prestigious given Melandri's performance. A win would probably have earned him a factory ride, or several podiums would have been a very respectable achievement. As it turned out, Stoner showed amazing pace at the beginning of the season, but as he started to fall behind (no updates) he began throwing the bike down the road in an attempt to keep up. He was a rookie, it happens.



Stoner is a burgeoning MotoGP legend, but I can't hop in my time machine and edit his performance in the second half of 2006. Stoner did have a remarkable 6 top 5s at the beginning of 2006, but in the last 8 races, he scored just 28 points and he had 5 DNFs. Rookie to rookie (not entirely fair since Spies has quite a bit more experience), Spies has 2 podiums and 8 top 5s and he's never raced on half of the circuits.

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We could get into the ifs, buts and maybes here--.200 of a second would've got Stoner that win--but I don't think there's any real need. But please, don't you start with the 'never raced on half the circuits' dribble, too; for riders of this quality it's irrelevant. Spies has easily had the more consistent rookie season--and you'd think that experience is the reason for that, but then again Stoner's crashed out of 5 races this season, too--however, Stoner showed more outright speed in his rookie year, and spent more time running at the front. Which, interestingly enough, brings us back to the orginal topic.

mylexicon said:

Whether or not a rider "earned" a factory ride isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, I'm simply trying to point out that Spies' problems with Suzuki have created the illusion of a slightly convoluted career. If you examine the last 4-5 years of his career, his achievements are anything but convoluted. His fallout with Suzuki was a statistical anomaly, and his performance this season, as well as his place in factory Yamaha, are both consistent with the trends in his career.

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I still think that there's a bigger element of right place, right time in his landing a factory ride in 2011 than you seem prepared to admit, but achievement vs potential is an interesting dynamic. I wonder which has proved the more successful metric in selecting GP riders?

Frizzle said:

Tom - He had no titles to his name in the lower classes. His LCR season in the premier class was mixed with both flashes of brilliance & a fair few mistakes.

These are facts yes?

Therefore he can consider himself reasonably fortunate to have bagged a factory ride in 2007. The performances up to that point in his career certainly didn't demand one.

Whilst I see your point on Spies, he has won titles in the AMA & was the reigning world superbike champion when he was announced as a factory Yamaha rider for next season.

Being a wsbk champ got Bayless & Edwards a factory gig in motogp so I don't think you could say Spies was lucky. This was my way of thinking, there was no need to be a smart arse on the do everyone a favour crap.

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Yea but history has shown that being a WSBK champ usually usually results in being unsuccessful in motogp. While graduating within the GP paddock without a world title often leads to success. Lorenzo went to 250 with no 125 title and didn't win rookie of the year, yet he earned the factory aprilia ride he used to take 2 world titles. Dovi moved to motogp with no world title, wasn't rookie of the year yet earned himself a ride at Repsol Honda. It happens.