Rossi's pass at Le mans

My interpretation is once the rider is in a position to see the flag from a reasonable distance. It's difficult to say where that point is in relation to this scrap. Further, didn't Rossi get Dovi out of the corner prior, and Dovi was passing back along the straight? As it's entirely subjective to say where a rider can reasonably see a yellow flag, and they had just passed and re-passed, I'm not sure you could apply a penalty to Rossi. Phillip Island 2006 on the other hand...

chopperman said:

I would say after the flag station but seeing the flag before passing is a warning.

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So as you approach the flag station and its waving yellow, according to you, its ok to overtake, as long as you have not crossed the plane of the flag perpendicular to the track?

Jumkie said:

So as you approach the flag station and its waving yellow, according to you, its ok to overtake, as long as you have not crossed the plane of the flag perpendicular to the track?

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Now your just punking me I dont think they draw an exact line like the finish stripe but leading up to the flag is not yet under caution.

Dovi was trying to repass rossi since rossi overtook him the previous corner heading into the straight...what's the issue here? If it's "when they see the yellow, they can't overtake", how can you prove dovi didn't pass him when the flag was already in sight?

This is another mediatic bubble based on some incomplete snapshots.

A[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]s can be seen in this helicopter video visible on the Mediaset site -- [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]http://www.video.med...iona-rossi.html[/font][/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]Rossi passed Dovi before arriving at the corner that was being yellow flagged at that same moment. [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]When approaching the next corner, it was Dovi resisting the pass on the outside of Rossi[/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"], [/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]but since Rossi had the inner line, he naturally entered the corner first. [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]End of the story... [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]The mere name of Rossi is as usual enough to drive many into paranoia

[/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]

J4rn0 said:

This is another mediatic bubble based on some incomplete snapshots.

A[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]s can be seen in this helicopter video visible on the Mediaset site -- [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]http://www.video.med...iona-rossi.html[/font][/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]Rossi passed Dovi before arriving at the corner that was being yellow flagged at that same moment. [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]When approaching the next corner, it was Dovi resisting the pass on the outside of Rossi[/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"], [/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]but since Rossi had the inner line, he naturally entered the corner first. [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]End of the story... [/font]

[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]

[/font]

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This whole thread is nothing but a smokescreen. Stoner got punished and his fan's and the hater's are having trouble defending him, so by way of clutching at straws in a ... for tat way they try to manipulate facts to prove Rossi should have been punished also

chopperman said:

This whole thread is nothing but a smokescreen. Stoner got punished and his fan's and the hater's are having trouble defending him, so by way of clutching at straws in a ... for tat way they try to manipulate facts to prove Rossi should have been punished also

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If there's anyone out there who doesn't believe Stoner should've been punished, you should probably put them on your ignore list as their opinion is as valid as that of a five year-old who doesn't know what a motorcycle is.

chopperman said:

Now your just punking me

I dont think they draw an exact line like the finish stripe

but leading up to the flag is not yet under caution.

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I'm not punking you. I want to know exactly at what point could race direction ding a rider for overtaking at a yellow flag.

Tekniqs said:

Dovi was trying to repass rossi since rossi overtook him the previous corner heading into the straight...what's the issue here? If it's "when they see the yellow, they can't overtake", how can you prove dovi didn't pass him when the flag was already in sight?

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That is the question in question, isn't it. At what point is the rider reasonably expected to respect the yellow flag. It certainly would seem Rossi was in the best position to see the flag since they were at a reasonable distance when he overtook Dovi.

Jumkie said:

I'm not punking you. I want to know exactly at what point could race direction ding a rider for overtaking at a yellow flag.

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I dont know just like you couldn't answer how far back from the yellow can you pass !

Austin said:

If there's anyone out there who doesn't believe Stoner should've been punished, you should probably put them on your ignore list as their opinion is as valid as that of a five year-old who doesn't know what a motorcycle is.

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That's the whole point, most if not all do agree so rather that get totally beat up on the forum they distract by cooking up this rossi passed under yellow BS and talpa bash.

Austin said:

If there's anyone out there who doesn't believe Stoner should've been punished, you should probably put them on your ignore list as their opinion is as valid as that of a five year-old who doesn't know what a motorcycle is.

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Then put me on your ignore list buddy. I not only think it was absurd to punish Stoner, but giving Randy a pass speaks to the uselessness of having race direction.



Watch the incident again, you tell me if there was any reasonable leverage in Stoner tapping on Randy's shoulder. It was about as much force as patting a guy on the warmdown lap after a race win. Maybe we should start fines for that?



I'll tell you what, if the punishment is to fit the crime, then I'll accept Stoner should be punished 5K if Randy is banned for the rest of the season for potentially committing suicide while simultaneously attempted murder. How Stoner’s reaction is the story while ignoring what is at very least career ending potential collision by Randy is infact absurd pal.



We had something similar happen here in my hometown. We had a gang member lowlife thug evading the cops, running though stops, driving on curbs, speeding through incoming traffic. He put people’s lives at risk. When he was caught, the officer kicked him. Guess what the headline was? I would have like to see all those talking about the “unprofessionalism” of the cop, had the thug collided with their kid driving to school.

Jumkie said:

Then put me on your ignore list buddy. I not only think it was absurd to punish Stoner, but giving Randy a pass speaks to the uselessness of having race direction.



What the incident again, you tell me if there was any reasonable leverage in Stoner tapping on Randy's shoulder.



I'll tell you what, if the punishment is to fit the crime, then I'll accept Stoner should be punished 5K if Randy is banned for the rest of the season for potentially committing suicide while simultaneously attempted murder. How Stoner’s reaction is the story while ignoring what is at very least career ending potential collision by Randy is infact absurd pal.



We had something similar happen here in my hometown. We had a gang member lowlife thug evading the cops, running though stops, driving on curbs, speeding through incoming traffic. He put people’s lives at risk. When he was caught, the officer kicked him. Guess what the headline was? I would have like to see all those talking about the “unprofessionalism” of the cop, had the thug collided with their kid driving to school.

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IMO Randy not getting punished and stoner getting punished are 2 different issues. You can't defend one criminal just because another got away.

Jumkie said:

Then put me on your ignore list buddy. I not only think it was absurd to punish Stoner, but giving Randy a pass speaks to the uselessness of having race direction.



What the incident again, you tell me if there was any reasonable leverage in Stoner tapping on Randy's shoulder.



I'll tell you what, if the punishment is to fit the crime, then I'll accept Stoner should be punished 5K if Randy is banned for the rest of the season for potentially committing suicide while simultaneously attempted murder. How Stoner’s reaction is the story while ignoring what is at very least career ending potential collision by Randy is infact absurd pal.



We had something similar happen here in my hometown. We had a gang member lowlife thug evading the cops, running though stops, driving on curbs, speeding through incoming traffic. He put people’s lives at risk. When he was caught, the officer kicked him. Guess what the headline was? I would have like to see all those talking about the “unprofessionalism” of the cop, had the thug collided with their kid driving to school.

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I never said de Puniet was innocent in this whole deal. He should've been handed a penalty as well. Stoner's overreaction deserved a monetary fine. To be honest, I'm not sure what de Puniet's punishment should have been. Perhaps a fine as well, not sure. But what needs to happen is guys cruising on the racing line need to be punished consistently, and that means that at some point, some poor sod, de Puniet in this instance, needs to be made an example of. Whether it's a fine, points deduction, or pushed back on the grid, something of a serious nature needs to happen. And it needs to be enforced consistently. It's a two birds/one stone scenario for Race Direction. Fewer chances for a catastrophic accident, fewer chances for Stoner to embarrass the sport.

Austin said:

I never said de Puniet was innocent in this whole deal. He should've been handed a penalty as well. Stoner's overreaction deserved a monetary fine. To be honest, I'm not sure what de Puniet's punishment should have been. Perhaps a fine as well, not sure. But what needs to happen is guys cruising on the racing line need to be punished consistently, and that means that at some point, some poor sod, de Puniet in this instance, needs to be made an example of. Whether it's a fine, points deduction, or pushed back on the grid, something of a serious nature needs to happen. And it needs to be enforced consistently. It's a two birds/one stone scenario for Race Direction. Fewer chances for a catastrophic accident, fewer chances for Stoner to embarrass the sport.

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Totally agree 100% Race direction need to pull their fingers out of their ......

On the depuniet thing maybe it was bautista that should have been reprimanded at least Rdp tried to get out of the way after having a look?



The rossi thing is nonsense, for all we know from the photos is Rossi was infront Dovi tried and did get his nose in front but then maybe he saw the yellow flag and decided not to pass because of them and braked first as to not incure a penalty which would also have made Rossi look like he overtook back under breeaking, not that I dont think he would have done anyway.



Just my interpretation.

Jumkie said:

So I suppose your understanding of no passing when a yellow flag is show is AFTER the rider passes the marshal post? So are you saying when the riders are expected to see the yellow flag, at that point its still ok to execute a pass?

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chopperman said:

You tell me compa, your the one claiming rules were broken ! Im not sure they were but will stand corrected when you furnish us with proof.

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In fairness to all - this is frequently a tough call. Theoretically riders are supposed to respond appropriately to any flag as soon as they

see it; however at those speeds, with eyes focused generally somewhere between the rider in front and just past the apex of a turn,

there's a lot of lattitude to be given when trying to discern at what point a rider can be said with any certainty to have seen the flag.

When the adrenaline is flowing and the tunnel vision is most narrow - it's the easiest thing in the world to miss a pit board or a flag. I don't think there's a rider out there who hasn't missed a flag a few times in the heat of battle.

Austin said:

I never said de Puniet was innocent in this whole deal. He should've been handed a penalty as well. Stoner's overreaction deserved a monetary fine. To be honest, I'm not sure what de Puniet's punishment should have been. Perhaps a fine as well, not sure. But what needs to happen is guys cruising on the racing line need to be punished consistently, and that means that at some point, some poor sod, de Puniet in this instance, needs to be made an example of. Whether it's a fine, points deduction, or pushed back on the grid, something of a serious nature needs to happen. And it needs to be enforced consistently. It's a two birds/one stone scenario for Race Direction. Fewer chances for a catastrophic accident, fewer chances for Stoner to embarrass the sport.

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Two things, I'm not sure Randy has any points to deduct. Have we ever had anybody with negative points in the history of the sport? I think John Hopkins still might have more points than him. That is "embarrassing."



Second, a death in the sport would not be "embarrassing" but it would be tragic. Stoner getting Randy's attention was totally justified, nobody has been getting these guys attention for hazardous behavior. I guess the "safety" commission is better suited for weight limit discussions than actually talking about what is unsafe on a hot track. No wonder Stoner is frustrated. It wasn't a "punch", it was a tap on the shoulder.



This is what a "punch" looks like buddy. LINK

So by Jum's logic both Dovi & Rossi should have been penalized, they both made passes on that straight within metres of each other.



When you'll go as far as to attempt to justify the Stoner slap you know you're in trouble!

Jumkie said:

Second, a death in the sport would not be "embarrassing" but it would be tragic. Stoner getting Randy's attention was totally justified, nobody has been getting these guys attention for hazardous behavior. I guess the "safety" commission is better suited for weight limit discussions than actually talking about what is unsafe on a hot track. No wonder Stoner is frustrated. It wasn't a "punch", it was a tap on the shoulder.

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My embarrassing remark was aimed at the punch. Makes the sport look like some three-ring circus. Remember when Aaron Yates drop kicked that guy? Makes me feel like I felt then, embarrassed to follow the sport. But that's very much secondary to the danger factor involved in cruising on the racing line. You're not far off about your safety committee remark. I know it's a dead horse, but less time on debates such as rider weights, more time on safety concerns.