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Rossi: I want to beat Stoner

G

gui22a

Joined Apr 2007
1K Posts | 290+
Brazil
You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and Valentino Rossi's first impression of the Ducati GP11.1 was certainly positive, even if he could only sample the new machine in the wet. What's more, the afternoon practice session was canceled because of oil on the track.



 "That's a shame - the Italian commented - and it's also a shame that we couldn't try the bike on a dry track. We need to cover many kilometers with this new bike, but the early sensations from the GP11.1 were good."



Are you specifically targeting Stoner with this new machine?



"Stoner is the reference point right now; winning races means beating Casey."





You did some laps together with Simoncelli, what were your impressions from that?



"The Honda is very stable on corner exit and it accelerates very well, but the new Seamless transmission helped me with this. Now we are a lot closer."





Does that mean you are already capable of fighting for wins?



"We still have two or three things to improve, be we already knew this from our tests with the GP12. We are suffering from a bit of understeer (WTF????
<
<
), which seems to characterize the Ducati, but as a trade-off the rear end is working much better. The bike is more stable under acceleration and it has more grip, but we need to test it in the dry to really understand how close we are to Honda.





What could you conclude from this morning's practice session?



"The GP11 was very good in the wet, and now we know that the GP11.1 has this same characteristic. Actually, I like riding it even more. There was also some mystery about how this chassis would react to the 800cc engine, and the initial feeling was the same as it was with the 1000."





So you have a better foundation to work from?



"The problem with the GP11 is that we couldn't find a good base setup, because there were issues which couldn't be fixed with adjustments alone. The GP11.1 allows us to work in a more traditional way."





How is it different from the GP12?



"They are very, very similar, but the 1000 has more torque and power. The GP12 is more fun to ride, but the differences are small."





Can you estimate how much of an advantage the new transmission gives you?



"It's difficult, and it depends on the circuit and the number of gear changes. I guess I would say around two tenths a lap."





You now have three engines left for the rest of the season, do you think it's enough for twelve races?



"More than believing it's enough, I'm hoping it's enough. We are optimistic. If it doesn't work out, we will have to decide if it's better to start last with the GP11.1 (as the rules dictate, ed.) or go back to the old bike."
Click to expand...









Source
 
Pinky said:
another sensationalistic misquote ...
Click to expand...





Agreed! What Rossi said is exactly what he should have said. It was not sensational at all. Casey is leading the championship and has been on form all season. To win races means one must beat him. That's all Rossi said. His answers were honest and I detected no negativity in any of them.
 
levigarrett said:
Agreed! What Rossi said is exactly what he should have said. It was not sensational at all. Casey is leading the championship and has been on form all season. To win races means one must beat him. That's all Rossi said. His answers were honest and I detected no negativity in any of them.
Click to expand...

Gul22a must be a journalist, they are masters at headlining an article to draw you in, then you reread the ....... thing 10 times trying to see what the article has to do with the headline.Truth is, Rossi wants to beat any of the following in a straight up battle on a dry track.

Stoner

Lorenzo

Dovi

Pedro

Sic

Spies.



But like he says, Stoner is the benchmark for now, that is who you have to ultimately shoot for.
 
I just copy the article so its tittle. This article is from GPOne, just click on source link bellow.
<




Anyway, I wanted to show that despite the new chassis the Ducati still suffers from understeer, although seems much less.
 
Rootsman said:
Everyone wants to beat Stoner.
Click to expand...



Yes -- that is the big change in MotoGP: before, it was all about beating Rossi. Now it's Stoner. This means that the de facto heir of Rossi is Stoner.



Poor Lorenzo.... he must feel bad.
 
Is it finally possible to put to bed the old story that the 2007 Ducati was a superior machine that gave an advantage to Stoner over the Yamaha and Honda?

As the basic design of the bike is unchanged , and has now been universally to be seen as a flawed design ( an opinion led by the 2 great bike developers Burgess and Rossi), then there can be little (no) doubt that Stoner won his 2007 title with a distinct bike disadvantage. We all know that a power advantage means very little compared with handling..........the Aprilia cube being a fine example.



Can the ultimate boppers............Roger,Talpa, Esco etc finally admit to this??????



......and the old "crashy stoner" was a myth that has been shattered by the revelation about the lack of front end feel in the Duc.

This article, while good in parts, falls into the mistake of perpetuating this myth.



http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-casey-stoner-among-the-best-ever







So , during the 4 years Stoner was on the Ducati, he had more wins than anybody else on a flawed design. That record is looking pretty bloody amazing......
 
Bunyip said:
Is it finally possible to put to bed the old story that the 2007 Ducati was a superior machine that gave an advantage to Stoner over the Yamaha and Honda?

As the basic design of the bike is unchanged , and has now been universally to be seen as a flawed design ( an opinion led by the 2 great bike developers Burgess and Rossi), then there can be little (no) doubt that Stoner won his 2007 title with a distinct bike disadvantage. We all know that a power advantage means very little compared with handling..........the Aprilia cube being a fine example.



Can the ultimate boppers............Roger,Talpa, Esco etc finally admit to this??????



......and the old "crashy stoner" was a myth that has been shattered by the revelation about the lack of front end feel in the Duc.

This article, while good in parts, falls into the mistake of perpetuating this myth.



http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-casey-stoner-among-the-best-ever







So , during the 4 years Stoner was on the Ducati, he had more wins than anybody else on a flawed design. That record is looking pretty bloody amazing......
Click to expand...

You say the ducati has not changed (how you know this is a mystery) but i bet the Yam and honda have changed quite a bit since 07
<
<
 
chopperman said:
You say the ducati has not changed (how you know this is a mystery) but i bet the Yam and honda have changed quite a bit since 07
<
<
Click to expand...



lol



GP7 was a superior bike so that even satellite riders were going pretty well in 2007 (Alex Barros got a podium at Mugello).



Its superiority relied on the fact that Honda and Yamaha was two fat pigs. The GP7 itself had nothing more than a powerful engine, the problem was the competition.



so yes, the GP7 was a superior bike.
 
Bunyip said:
Is it finally possible to put to bed the old story that the 2007 Ducati was a superior machine that gave an advantage to Stoner over the Yamaha and Honda?

As the basic design of the bike is unchanged , and has now been universally to be seen as a flawed design ( an opinion led by the 2 great bike developers Burgess and Rossi), then there can be little (no) doubt that Stoner won his 2007 title with a distinct bike disadvantage. We all know that a power advantage means very little compared with handling..........the Aprilia cube being a fine example.



Can the ultimate boppers............Roger,Talpa, Esco etc finally admit to this??????



......and the old "crashy stoner" was a myth that has been shattered by the revelation about the lack of front end feel in the Duc.

This article, while good in parts, falls into the mistake of perpetuating this myth.



http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-casey-stoner-among-the-best-ever







So , during the 4 years Stoner was on the Ducati, he had more wins than anybody else on a flawed design. That record is looking pretty bloody amazing......
Click to expand...
I'll say he's the fastest, I never said he had any advantage on the Duc of any year. One of the negative things I have said about him and may end up taking back is his racecraft. He rode the Duc so well that I never took into account that the POS couldn't turn so this might have been a damn good reason for my thoughts, I'm sure anyone would feel more pressure when already dealing with a handfull from the bike. I wish I would have thought about it sooner and I do hope we can see some good racing up front where Casey always seems to be. If we end up seeing some great racecraft from Casey, I'll apologize but you might have to remind me
<
.
 
Bunyip said:
As the basic design of the bike is unchanged
Click to expand...



i would say changing from the trellis to a carbon is more than changing the basic design.....and thats where the problems started.



honda and yamahas engine performance has changed hugely since then...



i remember the yams motor was weak and honda had a problem with fuel consumption but that aside we still have to apreciate his riding ability, stoner was ducati's best rider.
 
Bunyip said:
Is it finally possible to put to bed the old story that the 2007 Ducati was a superior machine that gave an advantage to Stoner over the Yamaha and Honda?

As the basic design of the bike is unchanged , and has now been universally to be seen as a flawed design ( an opinion led by the 2 great bike developers Burgess and Rossi), then there can be little (no) doubt that Stoner won his 2007 title with a distinct bike disadvantage. We all know that a power advantage means very little compared with handling..........the Aprilia cube being a fine example.



Can the ultimate boppers............Roger,Talpa, Esco etc finally admit to this??????



......and the old "crashy stoner" was a myth that has been shattered by the revelation about the lack of front end feel in the Duc.

This article, while good in parts, falls into the mistake of perpetuating this myth.



http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-casey-stoner-among-the-best-ever







So , during the 4 years Stoner was on the Ducati, he had more wins than anybody else on a flawed design. That record is looking pretty bloody amazing......
Click to expand...



This is BS and you know it furry one......



1- Trellis frame in 2007, carbon frame/Engine as stress member afterwards-massive change

2- Screamer engine 2007, Big bang from 2010- Massive change

3- 4 to 5 Front end rebulids in 2009-2010 alone- Massive change

4- Bridgestone Tyres 2007-08 in serious war with Mitches, Control tyres 2009- Massive change



Probably a host of smaller ones too, no doubt. Crashey Stoner got this title in 2006 whilst he was riding the greatest racing Motorcycle ever built, before he'd turned a wheel on the duck.



Your logic is actually a little flawed Bunny, which is not unusal, for when you think about it, how do you explain his fall from grace in ensuing years (especially 2008) if the bike was relatively unchanged from the world beater it was in 2007? That would make it Casey's fault then.....



I never took you for a Bopper.....
<




Rossi and Burgess have actually not stated that the design is 'flawed' only that the design does not suit Rossi's riding style and approach, and the margain for error the team likes to have built in for Rossi is far greater than what the GP11 was offering, therefore making it unpredictable and 'Flawed for Rossi', as history will show for most others as well, obviously the bike won races, therefore it was not completely 'flawed'....... however the margain for success, especially after the changes implemented in 2008, was rather small.
 
Talpa said:
This is BS and you know it furry one......



1- Trellis frame in 2007, carbon frame/Engine as stress member afterwards-massive change

2- Screamer engine 2007, Big bang from 2010- Massive change

3- 4 to 5 Front end rebulids in 2009-2010 alone- Massive change

4- Bridgestone Tyres 2007-08 in serious war with Mitches, Control tyres 2009- Massive change



Probably a host of smaller ones too, no doubt. Crashey Stoner got this title in 2006 whilst he was riding the greatest racing Motorcycle ever built, before he'd turned a wheel on the duck.



Your logic is actually a little flawed Bunny, which is not unusal, for when you think about it, how do you explain his fall from grace in ensuing years (especially 2008) if the bike was relatively unchanged from the world beater it was in 2007? That would make it Casey's fault then.....



I never took you for a Bopper.....
<




Rossi and Burgess have actually not stated that the design is 'flawed' only that the design does not suit Rossi's riding style and approach, and the margain for error the team likes to have built in for Rossi is far greater than what the GP11 was offering, therefore making it unpredictable and 'Flawed for Rossi', as history will show for most others as well, obviously the bike won races, therefore it was not completely 'flawed'....... however the margain for success, especially after the changes implemented in 2008, was rather small.
Click to expand...





No, I am talking about the basic configuration being unchanged- the way the swingarm is attached to the motor , which acts as a stressed member. The current and 2007 configurations led to an unstable rear end, which subsequently affected the front end. I don,t believe that trellis to carbon fibre frame change made a whole lot of difference, nor the change to big bang , as far as handling went. The Hondas and Yamaha improved from 2007 onwards, while the Ducatis fundamental design fault limited improvements compared with the others. As this happened, Stoner had to push harder to compete and ended up crashing more as a result. As usual you are trying to rewrite history. If you watched races from 2007 until Rossi this year ,you would see that the common theme was a bucking bike. Stoner could make it work to a point. Rossi was totally defeated by it. I believe that this is the first time that the way the rear of tyhe bike is connected to the motor has been changed, and as a result, seems to have created a bike with far more predictable and tranquil handling.
 
Talpa said:
This is BS and you know it furry one......



1- Trellis frame in 2007, carbon frame/Engine as stress member afterwards-massive change

2- Screamer engine 2007, Big bang from 2010- Massive change

3- 4 to 5 Front end rebulids in 2009-2010 alone- Massive change

4- Bridgestone Tyres 2007-08 in serious war with Mitches, Control tyres 2009- Massive change



Probably a host of smaller ones too, no doubt. Crashey Stoner got this title in 2006 whilst he was riding the greatest racing Motorcycle ever built, before he'd turned a wheel on the duck.



Your logic is actually a little flawed Bunny, which is not unusal, for when you think about it, how do you explain his fall from grace in ensuing years (especially 2008) if the bike was relatively unchanged from the world beater it was in 2007? That would make it Casey's fault then.....



I never took you for a Bopper.....
<




Rossi and Burgess have actually not stated that the design is 'flawed' only that the design does not suit Rossi's riding style and approach, and the margain for error the team likes to have built in for Rossi is far greater than what the GP11 was offering, therefore making it unpredictable and 'Flawed for Rossi', as history will show for most others as well, obviously the bike won races, therefore it was not completely 'flawed'....... however the margain for success, especially after the changes implemented in 2008, was rather small.
Click to expand...

Rossi not unreasonably did not want to take as much risk as stoner of killing himself, but he did not like the bike for the same reason stoner did not like the 2010 bike, because the front end gave way unpredictably and without warning, and because it was difficult to get/keep heat into the front tyres. Whether or not that is a design "flaw" is I guess to some extent a semantic question (it would seem unlikely that it was a deliberate design feature), but the latest bike is certainly a major re-design.
 
lol, lots of technical smoke an mirrors to try and put a case together in defence of #46, sorry ive forgotten his name i simply refer to him as melandri #2.

Fact Casey is and will always be remembered as the most talented rider aboard the duc. He handed over a race winning package, i remember what he did to the field at phillip island at the end of his stint aboard a pig of a bike.... embarrassing.

Fact #46 needs the bike to work perfectly for him to shine, does this make a true champion, def not.

Casey overcame the bikes obvious floors, pointed out by everyone who rides it even current spec, with raw ability clearly better than all others who have tried and failed.



Hey if its any consolation #46 could go over to superbike and follow melandri and perhaps he may be more suited to that class.







Talpa said:
This is BS and you know it furry one......



1- Trellis frame in 2007, carbon frame/Engine as stress member afterwards-massive change

2- Screamer engine 2007, Big bang from 2010- Massive change

3- 4 to 5 Front end rebulids in 2009-2010 alone- Massive change

4- Bridgestone Tyres 2007-08 in serious war with Mitches, Control tyres 2009- Massive change



Probably a host of smaller ones too, no doubt. Crashey Stoner got this title in 2006 whilst he was riding the greatest racing Motorcycle ever built, before he'd turned a wheel on the duck.



Your logic is actually a little flawed Bunny, which is not unusal, for when you think about it, how do you explain his fall from grace in ensuing years (especially 2008) if the bike was relatively unchanged from the world beater it was in 2007? That would make it Casey's fault then.....



I never took you for a Bopper..... :D



Rossi and Burgess have actually not stated that the design is 'flawed' only that the design does not suit Rossi's riding style and approach, and the margain for error the team likes to have built in for Rossi is far greater than what the GP11 was offering, therefore making it unpredictable and 'Flawed for Rossi', as history will show for most others as well, obviously the bike won races, therefore it was not completely 'flawed'....... however the margain for success, especially after the changes implemented in 2008, was rather small.
Click to expand...
 

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