Rider X speaks out about the ills in Motogp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 21 2008, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope...not a doctor. Married to a lawyer though and I can still argue him to the floor anytime!! Just a humble scientist here.... well ok..maybe not so humble
I can be scientific intermittently but would not be likely to win a debate concerning this with an actual scientist . Looks like I was correct concerning dani's wrist injury as opposed to most matters motogp about which I am usually less well informed.

Thanks again for the rider x stuff, and I do share your pain regarding marco to some degree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jul 20 2008, 05:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without electronics, Honda would be the fastest again with Yamaha a close second... Stoner would be complaining.

Sure they can have that speed advantage but then they would lose out in overall laptimes to the more nimble sexier bikes like they used to.

Oh and about Stoner becoming good or Rossi not being as good as before... is utter .........

Stoner looks better because of electronics... and won his first title, Rossi looks worse as its not possible to pass 10 bikes like 3 or 4 years ago.

If you need to beat someone on a faster bike, theres not much the rider can do to make a difference on the race track now.
That is a bold statement about honda being the fastest if there wre no electronics. Damn and you must have some kinda powers to know that especially since the ducati IS the fastest bike. Plus Stoner isn't complaning about .... and you have to realize one simple fact. The bike doesn't ride itself across the finish line the rider does so Stoner isn't becoming a good rider he already is a good rider, he is becoming a better rider and more difficult to beat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 20 2008, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am willing to accept any argument I can't refute particularly on matters technical in which I have little expertise. A smart guy who is a fair-minded rossi fan (being fair minded and being a rossi fan are not inconsistent, valentino is fair to middling good ) and also I think an aeronautical engineer had what I thought was a reasonable perspective in a previous discussion on this topic. He actually didn't think you could or should remove all electronic aids(I hope I am not misquoting you yamaka) but that there should not be engine mapping for track position/corners and that rider involvement would be improved by not having fly-by-wire throttles; at least the first seemed sensible to me. I am very happy to listen to your argument.
Your quote covers what I have said before just fine.
Cheers for the classification as a fair-minded Rossi fan, btw. I do try.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Jul 20 2008, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, eliminate track aware engine mapping.
I don't buy the throttle by wire arguments, but I'd have to use one to make a judgment. It doesn't seem like an advantage

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 20 2008, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I speak from ignorance, but I think his argument was that it is easier to fudge things with a fly-by-wire throttle.
IMO electronic throttle control should not be part of racing. Apparently in the current systems the electronics completely control two cylinders and the riders have restricted control of the other two in order to allow them to feel the connection to the tyre. Presumably, if we keep on down this track the electronics will control the throttle, full stop. This is why I dislike the lack of direct throttle - electronic throttles open up so many possibilities for removing control from the rider and giving it to the calibrators.

Like riders, calibrators can also make mistakes; unlike riders mistakes they are hard to spot from trackside as being calibration mistakes rather than the rider "doing a Westy".

Chris Pike (Leon Haslam's crew chief) had a few things to say on the same subject earlier this year.

LINK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jul 20 2008, 05:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without electronics, Honda would be the fastest again with Yamaha a close second... Stoner would be complaining.

Sure they can have that speed advantage but then they would lose out in overall laptimes to the more nimble sexier bikes like they used to.

Oh and about Stoner becoming good or Rossi not being as good as before... is utter .........

Stoner looks better because of electronics... and won his first title, Rossi looks worse as its not possible to pass 10 bikes like 3 or 4 years ago.

If you need to beat someone on a faster bike, theres not much the rider can do to make a difference on the race track now.
You make several statements as though they are facts when actually the truth of the matters simply cannot be known.

Yamaha and Honda also use electronic rider aids, what makes you think that their bikes would be ridable if all those aids were removed? Let alone "know" that they would have better laptimes than a Duke without electronics?

The Ducati (well, at least Stoners ) is extremely nimble in the corners - witness Sachsenring especially.

What do you man about "Stoner becoming good"? Have you been under a rock for the last few years. Stoner is good. You cannot sensibly state that he "looks better because of electronics" as though it's a fact. He rode a seriously 2nd class 250 to a very creditable 2nd in the championship, winning 5 races to Pedrosa's 8 and there were no electronics to "make him look better" there.

Stoner is the only rider able to get the Ducati package to work. I personally think it's because he's a psycho and leaves his brain in the pit before each session , but however he does it, when I watch the Duke I never want a go on it!!

As far as your comments on Rossi "looking worse" with electronics and the impossibility of a rider making a difference on the track against a faster package (Stoner was 0.6 seconds ahead of the rest of the field at all other times during the weekend) - try watching yesterday's Laguna Seca race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jul 21 2008, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He rode a seriously 2nd class 250 to a very creditable 2nd in the championship

That's a very dramatic opinion of a factory Aprilia 250. That "seriously second class" bike was runner up the previous season with an identical 5 wins, and won the title in 06 after Stoner moved on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's a very dramatic opinion of a factory Aprilia 250. That "seriously second class" bike was runner up the previous season with an identical 5 wins, and won the title in 06 after Stoner moved on.

"that" aprilia was also run by LCR... and look how well they run a team now......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 22 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"that" aprilia was also run by LCR... and look how well they run a team now......

Their motogp venture hasn't been a huge success, but their 125 and 250ccc record speaks for itself. They were a top team for a long time.