Rider Safety Meeting

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Supposing the source is good it's good news that riders also want this. Except the top speed limit ... who the .... is the sissy that asked for a top speed limit???? It's OK if it's Nakano (he's allowed to whine about that since his rear tyre exploded at 300km/h+ in a straight) if it was someone else he is really a sissy!

For me, right now, the priority is single tyre and banned TC (= control ECU). Fortunately I think single tyre will be achieved soon (2009?) thanks to latest .... up of Michelin, unfortunately getting rid of TC will be much harder, all the teams spend a lot on it and want to reap the benefits of their research. But I think they understand that this road is a dead end and that sooner or later it will have to be banned like it happened in F1.

About the rest:

990cc that's OK for me, not too sure MSMA will be happy about it after spending a lot of money in 800cc development. Anyway for me it's not too significant current 800cc have the power (and torque) of first 990s, and you don't see them handle the same, problem is electronics. Plus don't think they can get that much power back with the fuel restriction on the 990cc.

Thinner tyres is OK but you can't make them TOO thin can't have MotoGP bikes looking like 125s. But the change to single tyre will alone make them considerably slower. They could go for longer distance tyres (1set for quali and race?) so they are forced to use harder compounds and it would reduce costs quite a lot.

Top speed limit .... NO ....... WAY
Really good points!
I would think the 800's are as powerful as the early 990's too,when i come to think of it.It is probarbly going to be very difficult to get a ban on fly-by-wire through though.So i guess tires have to change in shape or control tires.Or extra weight.Boring...well we will see.

some how I just dont see 990s coming back due to the money manufacturers have spent developing 800s. You imagine the face on the accountants !
800cc here to stay. But Id love to see 990s back though, esp aprillia cube, christ I miss that bike !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Aug 18 2008, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>some how I just dont see 990s coming back due to the money manufacturers have spent developing 800s. You imagine the face on the accountants !
800cc here to stay. But Id love to see 990s back though, esp aprillia cube, christ I miss that bike !
me too. i just loved the sound of it

i would like to see a minimum weight of bike and rider to prevent our sport becoming a midget series.

Oh I forgot to say that I think increasing the weight of the bike is a very BAD idea. The heavier they are the more dangerous they are in a crash, more weight -> more momentum.
And they are already heavy enough, they kept the weight limits of the 990cc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh I forgot to say that I think increasing the weight of the bike is a very BAD idea. The heavier they are the more dangerous they are in a crash, more weight -> more momentum.
And they are already heavy enough, they kept the weight limits of the 990cc.
i think many talented deserving riders have missed a gp opportunity and many more will in the future purely because they don't have the stature of a horse jockey. i think smaller rider's should carry ballast so bike/rider weight is even through out the field.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i would like to see a minimum weight of bike and rider to prevent our sport becoming a midget series.

Fully agree with this one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what we need is real men racing who dont whine the bikes are to fast.

I think the sport relies on an element of danger to make it exciting but we all know too well that even the smaller, less powerful and slower bikes can still be extremely dangerous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 18 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At least when you highsided into the bails during the 500 era you knew it was your fault. Nowadays, your programmer might be to blame.

Even then the rider had to have a great deal of faith in his team. At least we are past the days of engine seizures.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i would like to see a minimum weight of bike and rider to prevent our sport becoming a midget series.

Every sport has an ideal physical stature and making a combined bike and rider weight would simply alter what this ideal was rather than neutralise it completely. The rules could be altered to make the ideal physique closer to the average Brit, but I believe the average height of the current motogp grid is taller than the average height of Italian men.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Every sport has an ideal physical stature and making a combined bike and rider weight would simply alter what this ideal was rather than neutralise it completely. The rules could be altered to make the ideal physique closer to the average Brit, but I believe the average height of the current motogp grid is taller than the average height of Italian men.
well obviously a sensibly average would have to be taken. im sure dorna have or can get records of past and present rider weights to draw a workable average. im not sugesting 20 stone rider start competing in the knoledge that the likes of pedrosa will have to carry 15 stone of ballast on there bikes i believe pro stock drag racing have a rider/bike min weight rule as im sure other racing series do so its not unworkable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i believe pro stock drag racing have a rider/bike min weight rule as im sure other racing series do so its not unworkable.

It is plenty workable, but it is more considerably more complicated in motorycle racing than in cars, and holds all the same compromises and drawbacks of the current system.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>interesting, safety because of less grip

if riders are going slower when the overstep the limit the consequences of their accidents should be smaller, especially where run-off is not ideal. Actually having less grip is only more dangerous if the limit is harder for riders to understand and additional crashes are induced. In practice a restricted tyre could be developped specifically to be safe and proggressive on the limit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if riders are going slower when the overstep the limit the consequences of their accidents should be smaller, especially where run-off is not ideal. Actually having less grip is only more dangerous if the limit is harder for riders to understand and additional crashes are induced. In practice a restricted tyre could be developped specifically to be safe and proggressive on the limit.
but where to draw the line tom? if that is such a safety issue thats just cut to the chase and ban bikes over 125cc. its upto the rider and his right wrist how fast is safe according to his ability and track conditions no one else imo not at this level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but where to draw the line tom?

Well thats the big question. At the moment all the riders seem to agree that the sport risks becoming too dangerous, I don't think it is anybody elses place to tell them to "man up"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well thats the big question. At the moment all the riders seem to agree that the sport risks becoming too dangerous, I don't think it is anybody elses place to tell them to "man up"
no but bare in mind some of the slower riders would want to slow the faster boys down with this rule so they dont look so bad. wonder how many riders asked for this and who.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no but bare in mind some of the slower riders would want to slow the faster boys down with this rule so they dont look so bad. wonder how many riders asked for this and who.

They wont have different rules for the slow riders, it will be the same for everyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no but bare in mind some of the slower riders would want to slow the faster boys down with this rule so they dont look so bad. wonder how many riders asked for this and who.
YEah and those guys would be fired if they were on my team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They wont have different rules for the slow riders, it will be the same for everyone.
what ? i think you mis understood me tom. i meant slower riders pushing for a rule that would slow the fast riders on the grid down so the lap times dont look so far apart ! i can't see the faster riders like rossi and stoner wanting to be forced to slow down . that rule would only affect them. slower riders may push for this fast rider disadvantage in the name of safety. of course the same rule would apply to all riders but who would it affect ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 18 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

When I saw that the rider's were asking for the 990s back I almost teared up.

Thanks for the compliment, I find your posts quite good as well. Keep it real in the north, I'll keep it real in the south.
Same. Thanks for the kind words, you're not so bad for a Texan.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Supposing the source is good it's good news that riders also want this. Except the top speed limit ... who the .... is the sissy that asked for a top speed limit???? It's OK if it's Nakano (he's allowed to whine about that since his rear tyre exploded at 300km/h+ in a straight) if it was someone else he is really a sissy!

For me, right now, the priority is single tyre and banned TC (= control ECU). Fortunately I think single tyre will be achieved soon (2009?) thanks to latest .... up of Michelin, unfortunately getting rid of TC will be much harder, all the teams spend a lot on it and want to reap the benefits of their research. But I think they understand that this road is a dead end and that sooner or later it will have to be banned like it happened in F1.

About the rest:

990cc that's OK for me, not too sure MSMA will be happy about it after spending a lot of money in 800cc development. Anyway for me it's not too significant current 800cc have the power (and torque) of first 990s, and you don't see them handle the same, problem is electronics. Plus don't think they can get that much power back with the fuel restriction on the 990cc.

Thinner tyres is OK but you can't make them TOO thin can't have MotoGP bikes looking like 125s. But the change to single tyre will alone make them considerably slower. They could go for longer distance tyres (1set for quali and race?) so they are forced to use harder compounds and it would reduce costs quite a lot.

Top speed limit .... NO ....... WAY
Absolutely Teo, couldn't agree more. Assuming we are already stuck into a control tire scenario and the days of unlimited tires are gone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Aug 18 2008, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>some how I just dont see 990s coming back due to the money manufacturers have spent developing 800s. You imagine the face on the accountants !
Fun to dream though, isn't it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Every sport has an ideal physical stature and making a combined bike and rider weight would simply alter what this ideal was rather than neutralise it completely. The rules could be altered to make the ideal physique closer to the average Brit, but I believe the average height of the current motogp grid is taller than the average height of Italian men.
No, I want the grid to be modeled after your average yank. I want everyone to be around 6' 200 lbs. and about 25 percent body fat. Tom, could you be any more nationalistic?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what ? i think you mis understood me tom. i meant slower riders pushing for a rule that would slow the fast riders on the grid down so the lap times dont look so far apart ! i can see the faster riders like rossi and stoner wanting to be forced to slow down . that rule would only affect them. slower riders may push for this fast rider disadvantage in the name of safety. of course the same rule would apply to all riders but who would it affect ?

If a control tyre significantly closes the gaps between the fast and the slow guys, it will only represent the size of the equipment inequality that we see now. I don't think the top riders are affraid of any of their competitors and would look forward to competing a playing field closer to level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Same. Thanks for the kind words, you're not so bad for a Texan.


Absolutely Teo, couldn't agree more. Assuming we are already stuck into a control tire scenario and the days of unlimited tires are gone.


Fun to dream though, isn't it?


No, I want the grid to be modeled after your average yank. I want everyone to be around 6' 200 lbs. and about 25 percent body fat. Tom, could you be any more nationalistic?
....... great i got a chance , couldn't put the average age upto 40 as well could ya ??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, could you be any more nationalistic?

Easily. I only hypothasised that the rules could be written to suit us because I know approximately how big we tend to be.