Red Bull KTM Ajo

Finish line · Sep 13, 2016

As it is known now, KTM is coming to Moto2 in 2017. They locked a 5 year deal. Ktm wil now be the only manufacturer in all 3 classes. The 2 seats will be taken by Brad Binder and Miguel Oliveira.

No need to say, everyone is very happy.

Hollywood · Sep 13, 2016

So does this mean a Honda Powered KTM?

Finish line · Sep 13, 2016

Hollywood said:
So does this mean a Honda Powered KTM?

Yes

And Honda only has contract for moto2 through the 2018 season due to their recent abandonment of the 600cc supersport segment.

It will be interesting to see if KTM develops an engine in two years time. For now they say they have no interest.

Hollywood · Sep 13, 2016

Finish line said:
Yes

And Honda only has contract for moto2 through the 2018 season due to their recent abandonment of the 600cc supersport segment.

It will be interesting to see if KTM develops an engine in two years time. For now they say they have no interest.

I doubt Honda's marketing people will be excited about this, they practically own the series.

p4p1 · Sep 13, 2016

Be interesting to see where moto2 goes from here. If any other manufacturers decide to do something similar or not could provide some much needed interest in moto2

Finish line · Sep 26, 2016

Zarco is testing the new KTM bike today.

AJV80 · Sep 26, 2016

Finish line said:
Yes

And Honda only has contract for moto2 through the 2018 season due to their recent abandonment of the 600cc supersport segment.

It will be interesting to see if KTM develops an engine in two years time. For now they say they have no interest.

Do they use a CBR600 engine or is it specially made for the series. Couldn't Yamaha offer up something similar with their R6 engine?

Finish line · Sep 26, 2016

AJV80 said:
Do they use a CBR600 engine or is it specially made for the series. Couldn't Yamaha offer up something similar with their R6 engine?

It is a standard Cbr600rr, just tuned. Modified for racing. They are using HRC race kit parts like ported cylinder head, camshafts, valve springs, ECU, AC generator and a taller first gear. Pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, gearbox....are standard CBR items.

Yamaha probably will offer something soon. They are teasing with a new models. But there is still time. Others might join. You never know, Dorna may let others in, and give a go to multiple manufacturers championship.

povol · Sep 26, 2016

AJV80 said:
Do they use a CBR600 engine or is it specially made for the series. Couldn't Yamaha offer up something similar with their R6 engine?

It is the CBR 600RR engine tweaked to around 140HP, nothing prototype. The chassis are prototype. The R6 engine could win the bid if they bother to put one in, KTM wanted to change the entire formula to 500cc twins but the teams revolted on that idea because of the cost involved to redesign everything they have done the last 5 years. The draw of Moto2 is how cheap it is to go racing, if you polled the teams, they would love to stay with the Honda engine because of familiarity. I wouldnt be surprised if Honda continued to supply the engines if its profitable to do so

Richy56 · Sep 26, 2016

povol said:
It is the CBR 600RR engine tweaked to around 140HP, nothing prototype. The chassis are prototype. The R6 engine could win the bid if they bother to put one in, KTM wanted to change the entire formula to 500cc twins but the teams revolted on that idea because of the cost involved to redesign everything they have done the last 5 years. The draw of Moto2 is how cheap it is to go racing, if you polled the teams, they would love to stay with the Honda engine because of familiarity. I wouldnt be surprised if Honda continued to supply the engines if its profitable to do so

500 twins would be loads better, after all it is prototype racing. I must admit, I prefer moto 3 over 2. Those little bike are miles tricker.

Moto2 is slow super sport with nice frames. It needs spicing up. bring back the 250s for me, all this bs about emissions, gp racing shouldn't give two shiny ..... about emissions. That's what proddie racing is for.

Plus how much emmisions are created hauling this show half way round the world every month

AJV80 · Sep 26, 2016

The Moto2's make a great feeder series for the MotoGP. An intermediate bike sized in power range right between the Moto3's and the MotoGP, I hope they don't change it too much just for the sake of it.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 26, 2016

Finish line said:
It is a standard Cbr600rr, just tuned. Modified for racing. They are using HRC race kit parts like ported cylinder head, camshafts, valve springs, ECU, AC generator and a taller first gear. Pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, gearbox....are standard CBR items.
.

Furthermore, they are all prepped very near the Aragon circuit.

Richy56 said:
Moto2 is slow super sport with nice frames. It needs spicing up. bring back the 250s for me.

You forget how that series was dominated by Aprilia and the exorbitant costs of leasing a competitive machine.

What astonishes me is that the VR Moto2 franchise has signed a deal with SpeedUp to supply the chassis.

AJV80 · Sep 26, 2016

Richy56 said:
500 twins would be loads better, after all it is prototype racing. I must admit, I prefer moto 3 over 2. Those little bike are miles tricker.

Moto2 is slow super sport with nice frames. It needs spicing up. bring back the 250s for me, all this bs about emissions, gp racing shouldn't give two shiny ..... about emissions. That's what proddie racing is for.

Plus how much emmisions are created hauling this show half way round the world every month

Do you think a prototype 500 twin would produce similar power to what they currently have in moto2 with an inline 4 600?

Richy56 · Sep 26, 2016

AJV80 said:
Do you think a prototype 500 twin would produce similar power to what they currently have in moto2 with an inline 4 600?

What do the moto3,s produce? 60hp ? Double that then yeah, plus they would be lighter

Richy56 · Sep 26, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Furthermore, they are all prepped very near the Aragon circuit.

You forget how that series was dominated by Aprilia and the exorbitant costs of leasing a competitive machine.

What astonishes me is that the VR Moto2 franchise has signed a deal with SpeedUp to supply the chassis.

Aprillia only dominated cos Honda lost interest. Honda got their act together with Aoyama and won the last year.

. Moto3 costs the earth but no one cares. its prototype racing, if people wanna do it they will. I bet it costs more to build and maintain a MotoGP bike than a 500 stroker. There were more satellite bikes too.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 26, 2016

Richy56 said:
Aprillia only dominated cos Honda lost interest. Honda got their act together with Aoyama and won the last year.

. Moto3 costs the earth but no one cares. its prototype racing, if people wanna do it they will. I bet it costs more to build and maintain a MotoGP bike than a 500 stroker. There were more satellite bikes too.

Honda gave one final push most definitely - and the bike that Dovi rode for Team Scot had suffered from a chronic lack of development. Aprilia assumed hegemonic control and drive the prices up but securing an RS250 was never cheap. Moto2 is a far and more accessible cheaper series. Not to say I didn't prefer pure prototype strokers.

Your point about MotoGP bikes and the 500cc class comes back to emissions and marketing. The class was no longer viable and during the peak of the Superbike series the road going counterparts were a huge commercial boost to factory sales. Indeed, the RCV was developed in conjunction with the factory (not purely HRC) which was unprecedented, because they wanted to immediately produce a road going version. 800cc really put the costs into the stratosphere, Dorna have finally effected some great measures to redress this. Interestingly, the strokers could have easily continued to be developed but the costs of taming them would have been similarly exponential not to mention the man hours involved in rebuilds which are of course not as frequent with a four stroke..

Richy56 · Sep 26, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Honda gave one final push most definitely - and the bike that Dovi rode for Team Scot had suffered from a chronic lack of development. Aprilia assumed hegemonic control and drive the prices up but securing an RS250 was never cheap. Moto2 is a far and more accessible cheaper series. Not to say I didn't prefer pure prototype strokers.

Your point about MotoGP bikes and the 500cc class comes back to emissions and marketing. The class was no longer viable and during the peak of the Superbike series the road going counterparts were a huge commercial boost to factory sales. Indeed, the RCV was developed in conjunction with the factory (not purely HRC) which was unprecedented, because they wanted to immediately produce a road going version. 800cc really put the costs into the stratosphere, Dorna have finally effected some great measures to redress this. Interestingly, the strokers could have easily continued to be developed but the costs of taming them would have been similarly exponential not to mention the man hours involved in rebuilds which are of course not as frequent with a four stroke..

Good stuff thanks. Agree with most points, not sure about the 500 strokers, true they weren't viable and fashionable any more.

Not sure about rebuild costs, highly tuned four strokes are a ....... to maintain, just look at high level mx bikes. Strokers need more intervention, but less time. If they were limited to number of engines like they are now, manufacturers would make it work.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 26, 2016

Richy56 said:
Good stuff thanks. Agree with most points, not sure about the 500 strokers, true they weren't viable and fashionable any more.

Not sure about rebuild costs, highly tuned four strokes are a ....... to maintain, just look at high level mx bikes. Strokers need more intervention, but less time. If they were limited to number of engines like they are now, manufacturers would make it work.

It raises a fascinating debate over policing the regulations since the full strip downs and rebuilds would be required.

I recall reading an interview with Harald Bartol I think who was of the opinion that mechanically the 500cc bikes had so much further potential and actually could have troubled the 4 strokes but even then the the electronics to tame them would have been prohibitively expensive.

Dr No · Sep 26, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
It raises a fascinating debate over policing the regulations since the full strip downs and rebuilds would be required.

I recall reading an interview with Harald Bartol I think who was of the opinion that mechanically the 500cc bikes had so much further potential and actually could have troubled the 4 strokes but even then the the electronics to tame them would have been prohibitively expensive.

I'm not so sure about Bartol's pronouncement.The gas dynamics in a two stroke don't really lend themselves to the same electronic interventions as a four stroke.
The pinnacle of two stroke racers was the Aprilia 125 with the rear disc valve, Mid-50hp and not much more than (complex) gear-by-gear ignition mapping and PV control.
But then, who knows what could've developed had there been more factory involvement (not to mention the intervening half decade)

Dr No · Sep 26, 2016

Richy56 said:
What do the moto3,s produce? 60hp ? Double that then yeah, plus they would be lighter

They'd all end up as V-twins. Anything parallel would be a vibrating mess.

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