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Pedrosa's Crime against Hayden

How many flippin' threads arw there on this now?!

Anyway...I think a debate is in order but no more than that. I personally think Pedrosa made a stupid mistake and it certainly looked deliberate, maybe he's the next Schumacher of Moto GP in terms of crashing into people.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 18 2006, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it is a fair assessment to infer something about his character. In this case, it was reckless and irresponsible.

When a minor gets in car and drives recklessly and causes tragic damage in an accident, perhaps one can make the case that the minor did not "intend" to do it, but his irresponsible actions should be seen as such. Would you say this is a "driving incident" or would you be more inclined to say it was an incident caused by irresponsible reckless negligence?

But to quote one of the responses, it sure "pisses" me off that someone can drive negligently and have those unaffected arrogantly chalk it up to, "thats racing".

i dont think you can infer anything about dani's character unless you know him personally. and if you do then please inform us all!

when a minor gets behind the wheel of a car and drives recklessly then for sure his irresponsible actions would be viewed as dangerous. but the difference is that such a person is commiting a criminal offence by driving underage and they have taken the decision to do that whereas riders stepping out onto the track must know that potentially an accident can and will happen as seen many times this season.

we will never know whether we were robbed of one of the greatest battles in motorcycle history because for all we know if the crash had not happened maybe haydens bike could have broke down the next lap?

and to quote me again it sure 'pisses' me off when someone says people are arrogant for not agreeing with your view on the matter that it was negligence. if they have an inquiry and find dani guilty of negligent or dangerous riding then fine, but until then i will stick my neck out and say that it was an accident.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Oct 18 2006, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How many flippin' threads arw there on this now?!

Anyway...I think a debate is in order but no more than that. I personally think Pedrosa made a stupid mistake and it certainly looked deliberate, maybe he's the next Schumacher of Moto GP in terms of crashing into people.

maybe not eh alex considering that is the first time he's done it in 6 years of racing
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l13eaw @ Oct 18 2006, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ditto ^

and like it says on the tin:

Motorsport is dangerous!

^
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and to make one last point: sure it was a bad move on pedrosa's part but but he's pnly human and people make mistakes. if racing was 'perfect' where no errors or fk ups happened then i know i wouldnt watch it. it would be sterile and boring
 
What a loooooong post! I was having a hard time digesting everything you said!
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Anyway, I can't quote every other line in the post and give my opinion to eah, as it would take pecious amounts of time that I am in no luxury to give, so I'll just impart some of my thoughts on this.

.... happens. It when it does, it stinks. Nobody likes it, but it's part of our everyday life. The riders, managers, and everyone behind a motogp team know this very well. Even the fans should know this.

Moreover, reactions are based on how far you know something, meaning, ones opinions are based on how much knowledge you have of the subject. So to conclude or express a direct statement re: someone's character is inappropriate, if I may put it lightly. Unless of course, you're a personal friend or someone really close to them.

So there. I am not singling out anyone. Just my opinion and perhaps a reminder for everyone, if someone is in need of them.
 
What a load of crap - anybody who gets onto a MotoGP bike risks his own life as soon he hits the track. You obviously missed NH's previous pass on Dani. Talking about suspending or firing the expletive performance by NH in the gravel pit was hardly "sporting" behaviour -that kind of performance would bring him a red card in a soccer incident -



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 17 2006, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just had to talk about,
and also see what is being said about, the most
outrageous moment I have ever seen in motorcycle racing
history. I see that there are many angles and diverse
comments about pedrosa's crash of Hayden. It is
always amazing to me to see how people can see the
same incident and have completely opposing views and
everything in-between. It reminds me of politics and
how people see their side as the right one despite
evidence to the contrary. In this case, I can’t
hardly believe that there are people thinking that
this was “just a racing incident.” Perhaps they’ve
never been on the track or only follow racing
superficially to say such an ignorant statement.
Others seem content in saying, “well Hayden should
have been racing better” or “He has been losing points
due to poor performances.” Perhaps these people are
not aware of the points formulas of winning a
Championship, but its basically an accumulation of
points. So for Hayden to be leading the championship
is a straight mathematical result of consistently
excellent performance, rather than a lack of effort
as some are implying. Those commenting
on the response to Hayden’s reaction saying he
should stop “whining” have certainly not worked for a
lifelong dream only to have it crushed, at the threshold
no less, of almost realizing that dream. What would have
been your passionate or lack there of reaction in
similar circumstances? There is certainly a lot of
blame to go around, but the most outrageously ludicrous
of the comments I have read so far, are the ones that
amazingly lay some of the blame on Hayden. That would
seem to me an equivalent of blaming a victim of
robbery that it was their fault for being robbed. By
saying, well they should have been more careful, or it
is their fault for having things that thieves covet.
It is outrageous to an infinite degree. I think
volumes could be written as to why Pedrosa was to
blame for his foolish sabotage upon the outcome of the
MotoGP championship. In the long list of offended
persons, the first victim is Hayden. All of the blame
should be placed on pedrosa. He was not racing
prudently, he was not being a team player, and his
flagrant absurdity resulted in him endangering the
life of Hayden. This is not a racing incident!!! This
is criminal. The only appropriate response by the
MotoGP authority would be to suspend him immediately
pending a thorough investigation. The Repsol Honda
team should fire him immediately for conduct
unbecoming of a teammate and lack of professionalism.
And other MotoGP teams should not consider hiring him
for the above mentioned reasons. Pedrosa should be
sued by those race fans in attendance that paid good
money and were deprived of witnessing a straight up
racing battle between the championship points leader
and the reigning champion. All the racing fans around
the world were also cheated, by pedrosa’s now infamous
madness, of seeing what should have been a historic
racing battle. To see it any other way is simply
irrational and dishonest regardless of who you support
in the championship.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electric Mofo @ Oct 18 2006, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
nhdanikillxe8.jpg


Found this, I couldn't resist

^I think it's disgusting that people are reacting like this. please GROW UP! I saw that pic to at the NH forum and that person who posted it, is a member overhere too, so I won't express my opinion too loud
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Oct 18 2006, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you can't see the accident for what it was then please go back to the I love Hayden website and let us get on with it.

^+1
one thing that realy annoys me from the NH forum, is that some people on it are watching the races from just 1 view. it's like they're watching the race through pink-glasses: everything for their beloved NH and everyone who dares to do anything against him, should be fired
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luckely that's not how it works!!

one thing that I like of this forum is that people try to see the race and all the things that happen from multiple perspectives and they're open for a debate. that's realy great
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Best Man @ Oct 18 2006, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>and to make one last point: sure it was a bad move on pedrosa's part but but he's pnly human and people make mistakes. if racing was 'perfect' where no errors or fk ups happened then i know i wouldnt watch it. it would be sterile and boring
^true
 
Hi racejunkie, welcome. I have to agree with you on everything except the sacking and sueing. Regardless of performance in any specific race, in the bigger picture, Hayden is just as entitled to win the championship as Rossi, why don't some guys get that? It was Dani's fault, he did try a pass on Nicky, he could mathmatically have won the championship at that point albeit by a long shot, however the attempted pass was insanely ambitious and therefore blatantly wreckless in my book. A 'racing incident' that involves two guys falling off ( and believe me when I say I've been in a few of them ) is something that happens all the time and usually the worst that will happen is guys exchange a few stern looks but it will soon be forgotten. Pedrosa's move was one of the most amateurish crashes I'ver ever seen in a GP, amateurish considering the crash as a stand alone incident regardless of any other factors, add in the other factors such as the late stage in the championship and that Nicky is his team mate and Pedrosa doesn't look so cool headed does he? Imagine if Dani is telling the truth for a moment and that he wasn't planning a pass, if he had fallen off like that on his own, we'd all be posting how much we laughed our ..... off when he dropped it, and how stupid could he have been to get in that turn so hot, wouldn't we? You're damn sure we would! But this isn't a 'racing incident', it's a foul. I've seen guys come to blows for less, it was a do or die manouvre and Pedrosa had to have known there was a big chance that the absolute best outcome would be that they would both go very wide in order for him to gain a position on Hayden, and that is what he planned, only he screwed that up too. I'm with eagle when he said the team should sort it out amongst themselves. If I was Hayden, I wouldn't be behaving so gracefully either, all you guys giving out about Nicky whinging, put yourself in his shoes.

Ben, OT but what is that rating thing under my profile???
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 18 2006, 04:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are you going to sue padrosa then ?


Yeah, yeah of course you're right - what the !!!!!!!!!!!! is "prudent-racing" how about adding turn signals, mirrors and stoplights to the bikes - that should make it safer. If anything Pedrosa is a bit of a wimp when it comes to close passing and fairing bashing - not something you can say about Hayden. Hayden's performance in the gravel pit or should we say his sand-box was purile and his subsequent comments devoid of professionalism
 
Ok I know who the rider is in my avatar so please don't let that take away from my post.

First of all I think the term racing incident is just a bs statement that means something happened during the race.... well duh!! i would consider a racing incident something like somebody losing the front or the rear in a normal racing situation and accidently taking someone out.

Now if this was crashy taking out somebody because of his "win it or bin it" racing I'm sure everyone <u>wouldn't</u> say "well thats just racing". People would be righfully upset with him because we know his history since he has stepped up in class. If he did what dani did I'm sure everyone would have his head. It wouldn't be a racing incident it would be negligent, stupid, ......... bonehead (insert adjective) pass, which is exactly what dani did.

I will agree Nicky put a hard pass on Dani the lap before forcing him to give up the line (which you can tell he didn't want to) but in no means did he attempt to put the bike where there was nothing there. .

I don't think dani did it on purpose but I'm without a doubt positive (my opinion) that pride was a factor in doing what he did and If I can quote one of my favourite movies "Pride only hurts, it never helps".

As far as people saying Hayden is whining. Call it what you want but I watched the post race interview (as compared to reading his comments) and from what i saw he was genuinely speaking from the heart. Hayden was carefull to make sure he didn't do something boneheaded all season to screw up his points lead, (which i agree hurt him a bit but nonetheless he was still leading) only to have his season screwed up from someone else being stupid.

I think HRC screwed up by not coming up with some sort of strategy (as opposed to team orders) but the ultimate blame for what happened lays with Pedrosa. It will be interesting to see how him and Hayden go at Valencia.

Bring On Valencia!!!!

-Crazy
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyc @ Oct 18 2006, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now if this was crashy taking out somebody because of his "win it or bin it" racing I'm sure everyone <u>wouldn't</u> say "well thats just racing". People would be righfully upset with him because we know his history since he has stepped up in class. If he did what dani did I'm sure everyone would have his head. It wouldn't be a racing incident it would be negligent, stupid, ......... bonehead (insert adjective) pass, which is exactly what dani did.


-CrazyGood point
 
pedrosa cant help it if he comes off. if he comes off he comes off big deal? Hayden was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Great news for the Rossi fans though
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 17 2006, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lots of talent is wasted on some of these awesome riders that don't have that aggressive edge, however, aggressiveness when not combined with prudence turns into childish wisdom with tragic consequences.

Perhaps he did not intend to sabotage the championship. However the effect is the same. Severe negligence is many times equivalent to purposeful intension. When a minor gets in car and drives recklessly and causes tragic damage in an accident, perhaps one can make the case that the minor did not "intend" to do it, but his irresponsible actions should be seen as such. I would think you might see it this way if you were the one injured. Would you say this is a "driving incident" or would you be more inclined to say it was an incident caused by irresponsible reckless negligence? Think about this seriously for a moment. It bears repeating, would you say this was a "driving incident"?

Perhaps there is no legal standing to sue somebody for this, and I don't think this would be the appropriate response in this particular case. But to quote one of the responses, it sure "pisses" me off that someone can drive negligently and have those unaffected arrogantly chalk it up to, "thats racing". That makes as much sense as calling the above example as "well that minor's driving." Is that what you would call it if you were the one rearended by a teenage driver haulling ... into you?

What was tragic about this incident? No one died; the worst injury was a broken finger.

There is one HUGE difference between the Estoril incident and a teenager driving wrecklessly on the highway: The ..... teenager hits you while you are innocently commuting; there is no reason to be driving fast. However, Nicky was in a race, the pinnacle of motorcycle racing, actually. Sometimes people make stupid mistakes, Dani sure did! However, that happens. If Dani is held criminally responsible for what happened Sunday, where will it stop? Accidents happen. Hell, one can reason that racing is an irresponsible activity in and of itself. Leveling criminal charges against racesr fro making big mistakes will KILL racing.

Chill out, it was a big mistake with heart-breaking consequences, but Dani is not a criminal.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xXx JUS xXx @ Oct 18 2006, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>pedrosa cant help it if he comes off. if he comes off he comes off big deal? Hayden was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Great news for the Rossi fans though
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actually i think you'll find it was danny that was in the wrong place at the wrong time
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Oct 18 2006, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>actually i think you'll find it was danny that was in the wrong place at the wrong time


well whatever, but its pointless blaming it on dani (not saying you are)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xXx JUS xXx @ Oct 18 2006, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>pedrosa cant help it if he comes off. if he comes off he comes off big deal? Hayden was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Great news for the Rossi fans though
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See, that's the sort of crap written by someone with no idea or respect for anything. I hang out here to see what other guys think of what goes on in GP's and from time to time I learn something. If the standard of chat on this forum was like this I'd never have signed up in the first place, neither would quite a few others. Gimme a break, please.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xXx JUS xXx @ Oct 18 2006, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well whatever, but its pointless blaming it on dani (not saying you are)


as i've said in earlier threads, my official opinion on the whole thing is......

.... happens.
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lets see what valencia brings
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Oct 18 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as i've said in earlier threads, my official opinion on the whole thing is......

.... happens.
<


lets see what valencia brings


yup can't wait. this has to be one of the best seasons ever. i think rossi is going to get the title. Whats everyone else think?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Oct 18 2006, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>See, that's the sort of crap written by someone with no idea or respect for anything. I hang out here to see what other guys think of what goes on in GP's and from time to time I learn something. If the standard of chat on this forum was like this I'd never have signed up in the first place, neither would quite a few others. Gimme a break, please.

^+ 1
 
can someone PLEASE think of some new topics so we can get off the Pedrosa/Hayden thing

Please - anyone - PLEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASE

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