Ohlins 2 Wheel Drive

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Motrix450 @ May 26 2009, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can see the the large cable like connection going up along the fork/s.
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was that the hydraulic or mechanical version?

either way it seems KTM allready may be developing an electric hybrid:
http://www.gizmag.com/ktm-2wd-hybrid-dirt-bike/10348/

which I guess means just electric powered front wheel.

seems they also cite power/torque control problems.

the article also says: "our take is that existing 2WD systems don’t quite offer enough advantage for the expert rider to be worth their additional weight – yet!" which was pretty much what I remember was abother of the comments from tests on one of the WR450's supposedly imported here ( I say supposedly because aparently they were commercially available via Yamaha dealers here, but strangely there only ever seemed to be non in the shops ..... in other words they were probably just making them on order ) . If they did make some though, some folk got a collectors piece no doubt!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ May 27 2009, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like the 'tard version!

I wonder about whether its like having ... with a condom though for motards?

I thought half the fun of "Tards" is hanging the back out? Yet with these systems they attempt to send most power to the front when the back is slipping/not getting traction, thus pulling the front around and dragging the back wheel back into a "tracking around the corner" tradjectory ...... like I said ... with condoms Maybe they had it detuned for "tards", so folk could still have fun?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ May 22 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow.... another insightful thread!!! Amazing. If I can correctly read this thread.... then clarkie put up a good article to read and a few people commented. Barry put up a comment about elecrtic being the way of the future and suddenly all the people who hate his comments come out and don't argue about what he has to say, they just attack him personally.. Amazing! Chockmoose,isn't it? Seriously, doesn't your avatar say it all?
I have had threads about the demise of our wonderful gas burning motorbikes that have no reason to be fazed out other than the ....... treehugging buttfucks that want to run our lives and dictate what we can and can't have. All this by way of lies about the environment and making you and I feel guilty cause of some food erer I mean animals have had habitat problems. Funny how when the alaskan pipeline was being proposed every hippy treehugger came out of the woodwork to complain and cry for the planet. But when it was built it was responsible for a population boost in caribou due to the hot crude flowing down to the plant. How much is it going to be when they make the switch in terms of making the batteries, and the other things supposed to make us more green? I don't think you will see the huge benefits at all it will simply be a trade off of one bad thing to another. Unless someone perfects free energy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ May 27 2009, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have had threads about the demise of our wonderful gas burning motorbikes that have no reason to be fazed out other than the ....... treehugging buttfucks that want to run our lives and dictate what we can and can't have. All this by way of lies about the environment and making you and I feel guilty cause of some food erer I mean animals have had habitat problems. Funny how when the alaskan pipeline was being proposed every hippy treehugger came out of the woodwork to complain and cry for the planet. But when it was built it was responsible for a population boost in caribou due to the hot crude flowing down to the plant. How much is it going to be when they make the switch in terms of making the batteries, and the other things supposed to make us more green? I don't think you will see the huge benefits at all it will simply be a trade off of one bad thing to another. Unless someone perfects free energy.




not sure if you are joking or not!!

but, you are aware that tree huggin or not ...... the projected end of viable recovery of fossil fuels is down to about 41 years ........ and it doesn't look like there will be any more for at least another 350million years .... thats assuming we become the dinosaurs tommorrow and get cooked and squashed between layers of rock

You are aware that kids today ( say any kid younger than 20 ) will very likely own an electric vehicle some time in the future ....

but don't worry ...... history shows that the next energy source rarely gets adopted till its more powerful than the previous form.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 26 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

not sure if you are joking or not!!

but, you are aware that tree huggin or not ...... the projected end of viable recovery of fossil fuels is down to about 41 years ........ and it doesn't look like there will be any more for at least another 350million years .... thats assuming we become the dinosaurs tommorrow and get cooked and squashed between layers of rock

You are aware that kids today ( say any kid younger than 20 ) will very likely own an electric vehicle some time in the future ....

but don't worry ...... history shows that the next energy source rarely gets adopted till its more powerful than the previous form.
Well i hope we have enough environmentally friendly power stations to provide all this electricity we will need to keep these electric vehicles charged.. At the moment were told to unplug phone chargers use energy saving light bulbs ect because of the carbon foot print producing electricity causes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 27 2009, 03:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well i hope we have enough environmentally friendly power stations to provide all this electricity we will need to keep these electric vehicles charged.. At the moment were told to unplug phone chargers use energy saving light bulbs ect because of the carbon foot print producing electricity causes.

Yeah I think thats the "tree hugging" side thats got "public" these days, they don't seem to push much the reality that fossil fuels have not that long to go ( somehow companies that sell us the oil don't seem to want us to stray from their product too early, and all go out asking for electric cars just yet ) , ie, its all going to be gone within our children's lifetime! .... thats pretty intense when you think about it , and how we and a few generations before us got so used to the benefits of Fossil fuels. I know there are companies out there getting serious about the next generation of power supply, eg. Hydrogen fuel cells look promising. It just looks so expensive ATM, but as with all technologies that end up staying with us, they always start of seeming to be the domain of the millionare. Here in Aust. solar and wind are taking off but its only early yet, we still have lots of old coal fired power stations. But the base link technology drive system with all these technologies is the electric drive. Which is possibly another reason nobody can bother to invest in development of such things as Hydraulic drives, if you are going to bother to go electric, you are stepping up to a whole different ideology of efficiency maximisation, hydraulics don't fit that ideology so we may only see them in situation where nothing else will do the job they can do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 27 2009, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I think thats the "tree hugging" side thats got "public" these days, they don't seem to push much the reality that fossil fuels have not that long to go ( somehow companies that sell us the oil don't seem to want us to stray from their product too early, and all go out asking for electric cars just yet ) , ie, its all going to be gone within our children's lifetime! .... thats pretty intense when you think about it , and how we and a few generations before us got so used to the benefits of Fossil fuels. I know there are companies out there getting serious about the next generation of power supply, eg. Hydrogen fuel cells look promising. It just looks so expensive ATM, but as with all technologies that end up staying with us, they always start of seeming to be the domain of the millionare. Here in Aust. solar and wind are taking off but its only early yet, we still have lots of old coal fired power stations. But the base link technology drive system with all these technologies is the electric drive. Which is possibly another reason nobody can bother to invest in development of such things as Hydraulic drives, if you are going to bother to go electric, you are stepping up to a whole different ideology of efficiency maximisation, hydraulics don't fit that ideology so we may only see them in situation where nothing else will do the job they can do.
not facts but just my thoughts, i would think using electric motors for this 2wd system in motorbikes would be a lot heavier than hydraulics. This extra weight situated in the front wheel would increase gyroscopic effects making the bike harder to steer and increase unsprung weight . Hydraulics may have its bad points but it it easy to rout and can generate massive amounts of power from very small components from what ive seen.

As for electric being a viable form of transport in the uk, When we here look at our electric bill each month the last thing we want is to start charging up our vehicles every 40 miles , not at that price. Most of our power stations use fossil fuels so because of this it really is not a viable option in the uk. We would need to invest massive amounts in nuclear power stations but that causes the problem of getting rid of the waste. I think the reason where still stuck on fossil fuel is because there is no viable alternative yet. Even at $200 a barrel its still the cheapest .
My personal belief is Alcohol and bio diesel until we find a technology that is yet to be discovered.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 27 2009, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not facts but just my thoughts, i would think using electric motors for this 2wd system in motorbikes would be a lot heavier than hydraulics. This extra weight situated in the front wheel would increase gyroscopic effects making the bike harder to steer and increase unsprung weight . Hydraulics may have its bad points but it it easy to rout and can generate massive amounts of power from very small components from what ive seen.

I think the problem with the Hydraulics is yes when you want force they can do it, but thats at a tradeoff for speed and flow. As soon as you talk fast stuff with Hydraulics there are great inefficiencies and relatively low power.

On the weight, I think the electrics have a huge advantage in weight. Read the KTM Hybrid article, they cite the weight advantage as one of the benefits with electrics. And Hydraulics motors are not known for their lightness, basically because they need to withstand pressure so are built rather bulkily.

A simple electric motor is easily 10kg in weight. The lighter ones used for racing aren't that much lighter either, 7 or 8kg. I had to evaluate between using a chain drive or an in-wheel when I was building solar cars and the losses simply weren't worth it. No matter how efficient they build it, that's still quite a heavy penalty and we'll probably not be seeing any in-wheel motors in racing applications for some time to come.

Hence the need to develope alternative front suspensions.

you guys need these
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW15_30.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 27 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you guys need these
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW15_30.html
that company is not far from me. wonder what the weight is. i can see the sense in these in wheel electric motors in cars because gyroscopic's and un sprung weight are not so important, but in motorcycle application i think they will be to heavy, especially in competition bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 27 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> that company is not far from me. wonder what the weight is. i can see the sense in these in wheel electric motors in cars because gyroscopic's and un sprung weight are not so important, but in motorcycle application i think they will be to heavy, especially in competition bikes.
no use, power too low 14.4 kw@ 900rpm... ok only need 360ish rpm anyroad powering the motor is the problem.. ie battery capacity say 14.4 kw @24v = 600Amps what battery will give that capacity for say 45 minutes..ok I will not go into detail... but battery technology needs a huge shift before battery vehicle are of any real use let alone race the damn things.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chockmoose @ May 27 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no use, power too low 14.4 kw@ 900rpm... ok only need 360ish rpm anyroad powering the motor is the problem.. ie battery capacity say 14.4 kw @24v = 600Amps what battery will give that capacity for say 45 minutes..ok I will not go into detail... but battery technology needs a huge shift before battery vehicle are of any real use let alone race the damn things.
Good point mate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 28 2009, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> that company is not far from me. wonder what the weight is. i can see the sense in these in wheel electric motors in cars because gyroscopic's and un sprung weight are not so important, but in motorcycle application i think they will be to heavy, especially in competition bikes.


I think they had a pdf on their site the weights were from say 6 to 11 kg depending on the power torque required.

But I just found another:
http://www.csiro.au/resources/pf11g.html

I mentioned once before I worked for a test lab ..... they are now located in CSIRO at the same location as this project is based bummer that I left might have to go and visit them again soon, got an invite for someones farewell do recently .... maybe I'll go

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chockmoose @ May 28 2009, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no use, power too low 14.4 kw@ 900rpm... ok only need 360ish rpm anyroad powering the motor is the problem.. ie battery capacity say 14.4 kw @24v = 600Amps what battery will give that capacity for say 45 minutes..ok I will not go into detail... but battery technology needs a huge shift before battery vehicle are of any real use let alone race the damn things.

You have to remember these are off the shelf components for purchasable everyday use, I was kinda just indicating the stuff is out there mainstream. WHo knows how far they've got on testing proto stuff. Not sure that batteries are what we are going to see too, talk is of hydrogen fuel cells lately.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 28 2009, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they had a pdf on their site the weights were from say 6 to 11 kg depending on the power torque required.

But I just found another:
http://www.csiro.au/resources/pf11g.html

I mentioned once before I worked for a test lab ..... they are now located in CSIRO at the same location as this project is based bummer that I left might have to go and visit them again soon, got an invite for someones farewell do recently .... maybe I'll go
Why not, you can never have too many tea boys at a farewell do

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 28 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why not, you can never have too many tea boys at a farewell do

a "tea lady " in a gov.t test lab here in Aust.!! you are dreaming