Money in Motogp

I wish Dorna would make the sport more accessible, how many of us would have tuned in if even just for few hours to get some decent footage of the testing. I'm not sure if they know we enjoy watching the bikes even when they aren't racing.

In sports history nothing ever goes down.

stiefel said:

Tobbacco sponsorship is out. There's a worldwide economic crisis. Sponsorshipmoney is ever harder to come by. The Rossi hype has sobered. Bottom line: resources are getting ever more scarce in Motogp.



Is this a bad thing?



If yes, what should be done about it?



If no, why not?







My personal opinion: no, this is not a bad thing, but Motogp needs time to readjust. Budgets are too high to be sustained at the moment, but they will come down without intervention. Factories will downsize their excessive R&D budgets, because it's the rational thing to do. Excessive rider salaries will come down too.



I also believe that the constant tinkering with the rules adverse effects by adding new uncertainties and new development costs outweigh their benefits in terms of cost reduction.

Click to expand...

There is no excessive rider salaries compared to what other professional athletes are paid. If anything, Moto GP riders are grossly underpaid. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo are worth every penny they make and more. As a matter of fact, i would entertain the thought of a freeze on technology, if the money saved went to rider salaries. These independent team owners lining their pockets while forcing riders to risk their lives for free is .......... Dorna should have minimum salary rule of around 300 - 500 k . That would keep team owners from filling the grid with riders who have absolutely no business lining up on the grid simply because they will work for free.

povol said:

There is no excessive rider salaries compared to what other professional athletes are paid. If anything, Moto GP riders are grossly underpaid. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo are worth every penny they make and more. As a matter of fact, i would entertain the thought of a freeze on technology, if the money saved went to rider salaries. These independent team owners lining their pockets while forcing riders to risk their lives for free is .......... Dorna should have minimum salary rule of around 300 - 500 k . That would keep team owners from filling the grid with riders who have absolutely no business lining up on the grid simply because they will work for free.

Click to expand...

Or even pay for the priviledge.

povol said:

There is no excessive rider salaries compared to what other professional athletes are paid. If anything, Moto GP riders are grossly underpaid. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo are worth every penny they make and more. As a matter of fact, i would entertain the thought of a freeze on technology, if the money saved went to rider salaries. These independent team owners lining their pockets while forcing riders to risk their lives for free is .......... Dorna should have minimum salary rule of around 300 - 500 k . That would keep team owners from filling the grid with riders who have absolutely no business lining up on the grid simply because they will work for free.

Click to expand...

I'm going to coin a new term, Povol's Lame And Nonsensical Contradictions, PLANC pronounced Plank, as in, as dumb as a plank of wood.



You have voiced your hate for the CRTs on the grounds that they are not technologically advancing prototype racing (though you never were able to follow your logic as it relates to arbitrary rules). While in another thread you argue against worker/labor/employee rights (riders) to be fairly compensated for what they had negotiated in favor of executives (team owners) to pressure workers to be compensated less or even nothing at all. Yet here you argue in favor of technological freeze (something that you were supposedly against to the point of boycotting GP, regardless of the toothlessness of your particular style and cowardly idea of boycotting). And go on to argue in favor of rider rights (workers/labor/employee) to be fairly compensated at the expense of executive right. Wait wait, so isn't it the executive's business? Shouldn't they have the right to bargain the salaries of their employees? Oops, that doens't quite go with your supposed philosophy that skilled employees should be faily compensated while attempting to argue favoring laissez-faire business practices. I'm willing to bet if labor unions voted republican then you would be in favor of labor unions. You Pov are a PLANC, pronounced Plank.

Jumkie said:

I'm going to coin a new term, Povol's Lame And Nonsensical Contradictions, PLANC pronounced Plank, as in, as dumb as a plank of wood.



You have voiced your hate for the CRTs on the grounds that they are not technologically advancing prototype racing (though you never were able to follow your logic as it relates to arbitrary rules). While in another thread you argue against worker/labor/employee rights (riders) to be fairly compensated for what they had negotiated in favor of executives (team owners) to pressure workers to be compensated less or even nothing at all. Yet here you argue in favor of technological freeze (something that you were supposedly against to the point of boycotting GP, regardless of the toothlessness of your particular style and cowardly idea of boycotting). And go on to argue in favor of rider rights (workers/labor/employee) to be fairly compensated at the expense of executive right. Wait wait, so isn't it the executive's business? Shouldn't they have the right to bargain the salaries of their employees? Oops, that doens't quite go with your supposed philosophy that skilled employees should be faily compensated while attempting to argue favoring laissez-faire business practices. I'm willing to bet if labor unions voted republican then you would be in favor of labor unions. You Pov are a PLANC, pronounced Plank.

Click to expand...

+1





The issue of money in Motogp, as in most motorsports has surfaced due to the lack of Tobacco dollars allowed in, plain and simple, GFC or No GFC if the smoke dollars were still there they would have less problems. That being said, I'm now an advocate for less money available and supplied by the factories-for they are only ruining the spectacle with wizardry. Adjustments to regulations seem to be fixing this, with Ducati's team boss saying that the increase in weight is very financially effective requiring less expensive light weight materials.



There is a lot of debate out there about the metronomic precision of the Aliens and how they are able to bang out laps within a bee's .... of each other on the Timing boards. This type of rider has been bred from the Fuel Limit rule, and the Bridgestone Rubber, ruining the spectacle and gradually pushing the big money away. The sport needs to direct it's regulations and sponsorship money into allowing more freedom to cater to riders strengths. A rider like Tony Elias should be supplied rubber he can use, not a product that is fundamentally flawed and intrinsically opposed to his strengths. No one wants to see a rider like Tony as far back as he was last season, we all know he is far better than that, as we all know that the reason for his shockingly bad season was the Bridgestone Rubber. The dollars and regulations need to be directed toward the development of technologies that cater to the riders strength's-not what we have seen for the past few years. Surely this will provide the best odd's for decent racing. Whilst the ability to bang out precise laps is incredible, IMO the ability to manage a machine and its rubber over a race distance is far more valuable. At present these riders have a programmer handling most of it for them.



I do agree that Dorna's coverage, or complete lack of, the test could have been improved. However Outside Broadcast Television costs a lot of money and the powers that be obviously can't see it fiscally worthwhile. There also may be a fear of over-saturation and/or not showing their hand, one quick glance of the sepang test from most punters that witnessed last season, would show Jorge banging out ridiculously monotonously fast laps, with Stoner and Dani. Most would probably think 'oh well, more of the same' and remove the series reminder for their TV Browser and cross off the motogp.com video pass from the budget.........the public are very fickle, and Motogp needs to have a cracker season this year, Dorna are banking on a Rossi/Ducati rival and a decent sub-category fight for the CRT crown. Personally I would have gambled on the better odds of a 24 litre fuel limit and a removal of the sole tyre rule........

stiefel said:

My personal opinion: no, this is not a bad thing

Click to expand...

You're right. It's not bad, it's horrendous.



The lack of sponsorship isn't really a new problem so if you want to see the effects of vanishing sponsorship, anemic return on investement, and astronomical debt servicing payments (last 2 are Bridgepoint's problems), just examine the last 5 years.



Constant bickering and infighting. Never-ending blamestorming. Self-destructive intransigence (primarily by the MSMA and tire companies). These negative attributes result from people who are concerned with increasing their portion of the pie rather than increasing the size of the pie. As a result, we get to watch them cut costs rather than engineer cool bikes. The fans try to blame it on Dorna, but the culprit is obvious. The MSMA have never focused on growing the sport, and their incompetence in that particular arena is prohibiting them from building the technologies they want to build.

Jumkie said:

I'm going to coin a new term, Povol's Lame And Nonsensical Contradictions, PLANC pronounced Plank, as in, as dumb as a plank of wood.



You have voiced your hate for the CRTs on the grounds that they are not technologically advancing prototype racing (though you never were able to follow your logic as it relates to arbitrary rules). While in another thread you argue against worker/labor/employee rights (riders) to be fairly compensated for what they had negotiated in favor of executives (team owners) to pressure workers to be compensated less or even nothing at all. Yet here you argue in favor of technological freeze (something that you were supposedly against to the point of boycotting GP, regardless of the toothlessness of your particular style and cowardly idea of boycotting). And go on to argue in favor of rider rights (workers/labor/employee) to be fairly compensated at the expense of executive right. Wait wait, so isn't it the executive's business? Shouldn't they have the right to bargain the salaries of their employees? Oops, that doens't quite go with your supposed philosophy that skilled employees should be faily compensated while attempting to argue favoring laissez-faire business practices. I'm willing to bet if labor unions voted republican then you would be in favor of labor unions. You Pov are a PLANC, pronounced Plank.

Click to expand...

Negotiated, is that what you call it when one arm of a political party gives the other arm anything it wants in return for campaign kickbacks. I negotiate for a living, and let me tell you. thats not negotiating. . When you negotiate with yourself, sweet deals are guaranteed. This isnt that complicated, the unions spend millions getting themselves elected ,then give themselves unsustainable contracts Just remember, your running out of other peoples money.



And you would lose that bet. As ive stated before, i have no problem with private sector unions, its the ultra corrupt public sector unions such as yours that are bleeding the country dry with their scam "negotiating". I want to hear more about that skilled worker who is the highest paid in the country, yet produces one of the sorriest products in the country. Please expound!

The money problem is a result of a narrow minded management of the sport for a decade. It will take a decade for them to correct the problems they have created by backing one golden goose and race predominately in 2 countries with riders from the same 2 countries both of which are bankrupt. I bet if they had 3 races in China and 3 races in India with 3 riders from each country on the grid there would be zero problems with sponsorship dollars in MotoGP.

povol said:

Negotiated, is that what you call it when one arm of a political party gives the other arm anything it wants in return for campaign kickbacks. I negotiate for a living, and let me tell you. thats not negotiating. . When you negotiate with yourself, sweet deals are guaranteed. This isnt that complicated, the unions spend millions getting themselves elected ,then give themselves unsustainable contracts Just remember, your running out of other peoples money.



And you would lose that bet. As ive stated before, i have no problem with private sector unions, its the ultra corrupt public sector unions such as yours that are bleeding the country dry with their scam "negotiating". I want to hear more about that skilled worker who is the highest paid in the country, yet produces one of the sorriest products in the country. Please expound!

Click to expand...

You don't negotiate for a living, you're simply a peddler. When professionals apply for a job, after they are chosen from the pool of candidates, they are "offered" the job. Something you don't quite understand, since you're unskilled "job" just requires you to push some product on peeps coming in to spend a bit of disposable income. Look in the classified section and which "jobs" are listed the most, sales jobs, thats a fancy word for peddlers. You know why so many are listed? Because it requires zero training. You're basically a monkey for some owner who has product and need some buffoon with a mouth to peddle the product. Which shouldn't be so difficult, since its the guy walking in with the disposable income to blow, and you're just a hired piss on for the owner making money on the sale. Unlike the professionals who have gone to school to do something in their related field of study. Hence why they are offered benefits and are smart enough to unionize to buffer the power of the executive. How many sales unions for dealerships are there? Probably none, since any chimp can come and hand the buyer a pamphlet.



Public sector workers must all be failures in your eyes then, as most all government is corrupt and leeching form taxpayers. Newsflash buddy, military personnel are 'government workers', how does that fit in to your philosophy? It appears terrorism has not been eradicated, I guess all those soldiers are failing. Another one of your PLANCs. Check the federal budget, we spend a grip on military jobs programs, that is, we keep weapons companies in business because we don't to lose American jobs (that is what the lobby has sold you and your dumb ... republican has swallowed it whole, there is your 'private' sector you are so fond of genius). You are hell bend on hating teachers because Fox told you they are evil and leech tax payers with our "high" penny salaries. While you vote to keep the military complex leeching billions. Penny wise dumb Billion Dollar stupid.



You've lost this argument logically on all accounts. But I know you're to dumb to quite, so I'll continue to rebut every lame tangent you come up with, and continue to make you look silly. I guess they don't teach logic in dealership sales school, well if there was such a school.

Jumkie said:

<

You don't negotiate for a living, you're simply a peddler. When professionals apply for a job, after they are chosen from the pool of candidates, they are &quot;offered&quot; the job. Something you don't quite understand, since you're unskilled &quot;job&quot; just requires you to push some product on peeps coming in to spend a bit of disposable income. Look in the classified section and which &quot;jobs&quot; are listed the most, sales jobs, thats a fancy word for peddlers. You know why so many are listed? Because it requires zero training. You're basically a monkey for some owner who has product and need some buffoon with a mouth to peddle the product. Which shouldn't be so difficult, since its the guy walking in with the disposable income to blow, and you're just a hired piss on for the owner making money on the sale. Unlike the professionals who have gone to school to do something in their related field of study. Hence why they are offered benefits and are smart enough to unionize to buffer the power of the executive. How many sales unions for dealerships are there? Probably none, since any chimp can come and hand the buyer a pamphlet.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. I work in sales (commission only) and it is a highly skilled occupation with no safety net. The most skilled component of any sales position is emotional intelligence of which you need in spades to be successful. As far as those 'professionals' with degrees (I have 2 by the way) cringe when I tell them how much I earn. Could I earn the same with either of my degrees? No way. The monkeys are the ones who work on a fixed income, have to turn up when the boss says so and ask if they can take a piss. Last November I made just over $40,000, and that was Aussie dollars not those worthless American ones. Not bad for a peddler hey? Forgot to mention, I only need to show up for about 30hrs a week. How do you like them <strike>apples</strike> banana's monkey boy?

and yet the pot head wins because he simply collects the gold his donkey ..... in his garden every day





the bikes have been the same for years now, and until there is a new justification for spending millions and millions of dollars ( e-bikes?) there is no use for R&D when the grid could be put on equal bikes to make it solely a riders championship.

let dorna supply the grid with stock r1s or whatever bikes and let the riders make the difference. the top 3 of the lower class advance into a higher class until they're in motogp. no unfair sponsorship and contract .... that way

Mental Anarchist said:

Wrong again. I work in sales (commission only) and it is a highly skilled occupation with no safety net. The most skilled component of any sales position is emotional intelligence of which you need in spades to be successful. As far as those 'professionals' with degrees (I have 2 by the way) cringe when I tell them how much I earn. Could I earn the same with either of my degrees? No way. The monkeys are the ones who work on a fixed income, have to turn up when the boss says so and ask if they can take a piss. Last November I made just over $40,000, and that was Aussie dollars not those worthless American ones. Not bad for a peddler hey? Forgot to mention, I only need to show up for about 30hrs a week. How do you like them <strike>apples</strike> banana's monkey boy?

Click to expand...

You must have studied the wrong degrees. I know accountants in Newcastle (large hick town to you foreigners) who earn more than that every month and work the same hours. Professionals in Sydney in the same field who are good at their game earn a lot more.

Ultimately sales is sales and any cheesy ....... can do it, just look at parramatta road Sydney. Salespeople will never get full respect because most of them are only concerned with selling, ie. that's how they get paid so they don't have the customers best interests at heart. Some care about the customer but not enough to give sales people a good reputation. Real estate agents, car salespeople and financial planners are all of the same ilk and all of these career paths have low to zero standards of entry. Some would like to pass off as a profession but never will while they are based around commissions for flogging product rather than providing advice in the best interests of their client.

woody996 said:

You must have studied the wrong degrees. I know accountants in Newcastle (large hick town to you foreigners) who earn more than that every month and work the same hours. Professionals in Sydney in the same field who are good at their game earn a lot more. Ultimately sales is sales and any cheesy ....... can do it, just look at parramatta road Sydney. Salespeople will never get full respect because most of them are only concerned with selling, ie. that's how they get paid so they don't have the customers best interests at heart. Some care about the customer but not enough to give sales people a good reputation. Real estate agents, car salespeople and financial planners are all of the same ilk and all of these career paths have low to zero standards of entry. Some would like to pass off as a profession but never will while they are based around commissions for flogging product rather than providing advice in the best interests of their client.

Click to expand...

There are accountants in Newcastle who also earn a lot less. Income (most of the time) depends on how good you are at your trade. Just like a crap accountant doesn't achieve the best for his client the same applies for sales people. The same applies for all professions. Go see a crap doctor and see how well it turns out and they have a 6 year degree. Try walking into court with a crap lawyer and see how you go. A good (insert profession here) does the best for their customer and that is why the make money. Degrees at the end of the day mean .... when it comes to earning potential.



The same applies to MotoGP. Ezepleta is a crap promoter and that is why MotoGP is in the toilet with sponsors and can't attract money. Stick a great sales person in his role and MotoGP would not be looking to reduce costs, they would be thriving.

I am fortunate to have been paid well and this in my case certainly relates to my undergraduate degree and post graduate diploma/trade qualification; however call me a communist if you will but I don't necessarily always see a strong correlation between income and quality of work in jobs, "professional" or not.



I agree with MA about ezpeleta being a poor promoter, perhaps at least partly because he is an accountant/merchant banker rather than from any promotional/sales background. However to retreat from communism it needs to be recalled as lex has said that the situation he finds himself in is largely the result of bureaucratic interference from some ivory tower philosopher on the basis of enforcing "competition". Motogp was unproblematic but its sale and separation from the owners of F1 was forced, vastly increasing the cost of the media coverage for a start.

Jumkie said:

You don't negotiate for a living, you're simply a peddler. When professionals apply for a job, after they are chosen from the pool of candidates, they are "offered" the job. Something you don't quite understand, since you're unskilled "job" just requires you to push some product on peeps coming in to spend a bit of disposable income. Look in the classified section and which "jobs" are listed the most, sales jobs, thats a fancy word for peddlers. You know why so many are listed? Because it requires zero training. You're basically a monkey for some owner who has product and need some buffoon with a mouth to peddle the product. Which shouldn't be so difficult, since its the guy walking in with the disposable income to blow, and you're just a hired piss on for the owner making money on the sale. Unlike the professionals who have gone to school to do something in their related field of study. Hence why they are offered benefits and are smart enough to unionize to buffer the power of the executive. How many sales unions for dealerships are there? Probably none, since any chimp can come and hand the buyer a pamphlet.



Public sector workers must all be failures in your eyes then, as most all government is corrupt and leeching form taxpayers. Newsflash buddy, military personnel are 'government workers', how does that fit in to your philosophy? It appears terrorism has not been eradicated, I guess all those soldiers are failing. Another one of your PLANCs. Check the federal budget, we spend a grip on military jobs programs, that is, we keep weapons companies in business because we don't to lose American jobs (that is what the lobby has sold you and your dumb ... republican has swallowed it whole, there is your 'private' sector you are so fond of genius). You are hell bend on hating teachers because Fox told you they are evil and leech tax payers with our "high" penny salaries. While you vote to keep the military complex leeching billions. Penny wise dumb Billion Dollar stupid.



You've lost this argument logically on all accounts. But I know you're to dumb to quite, so I'll continue to rebut every lame tangent you come up with, and continue to make you look silly. I guess they don't teach logic in dealership sales school, well if there was such a school.

Click to expand...

Newsflash buddy, soldiers dont belong to unions. Can you imagine the cluster .... that would be. Another newsflash, everything is sold, thats why there is a need for sales people.I do not begrudge most teachers salaries, i actually think they should be paid more. On the other hand, most government workers are not worth minimum wage. What i do begrudge is the impossible benefit packages that are the direct result of bribery, collusion and collaboration by the unions and their members. You want to talk about trained monkeys, thats what makes up a union work force. The truly exceptional worker wants no part of a union, why, because they hold him down to the trained monkey standards. Why are unions against rewarding the elite performers, easy, it exposes the overall lousy performance of the whole. Its not an opinion, its a fact, that as a group, government union workers are the least efficient workforces on the planet, and unmatched when it comes to greed. At least conservative greed is about keeping whats theirs, your greed is about taking from others. There are makers, and there are takers, your a taker.

Ok, I'll reply later. For the moment, I'd like to thank you guys for making my evenings entertaining. No hard feelings. Some of you have the right to your wrong opinions. Thankfully, we live in free countries.



(Btw, Woody & Mike, I agree. Mental, I was having a go a my buddy Pov, stay out of it you peddler...or should I say, a well paid peddler).

Whats wrong in Tobacco sponsorship in the first place? (please do note me for I am a noobie)



MotoGP isn't an environmental sport; nor has been an advocate to promote world health care as far as I'm concerned. So whats wrong with tobacco sponsorship? MotoGP has and should always be a competitive sport, no restricting rules over every freakin' thing. Factories backed up by their sponsors should always look for new neat technical aspects/things for their riders and motorcycles. Pure prototype. Not by hampering or limiting them in a way that they can develop something new, yet still hampered by rules and restrictions. I'm not really sure but before, MotoGP isn't as complicated as it is now. Simply put the only thing thats bad in MotoGP is politics and nothing else. No money is coming you say? I'm pretty sure some higher ups in there are having a laugh at that. >_> (Don't know what I'm talking bout' here lol)

frethammer said:

Whats wrong in Tobacco sponsorship in the first place? (please do note me for I am a noobie)



MotoGP isn't an environmental sport; nor has been an advocate to promote world health care as far as I'm concerned. So whats wrong with tobacco sponsorship? MotoGP has and should always be a competitive sport, no restricting rules over every freakin' thing. Factories backed up by their sponsors should always look for new neat technical aspects/things for their riders and motorcycles. Pure prototype. Not by hampering or limiting them in a way that they can develop something new, yet still hampered by rules and restrictions. I'm not really sure but before, MotoGP isn't as complicated as it is now. Simply put the only thing thats bad in MotoGP is politics and nothing else. No money is coming you say? I'm pretty sure some higher ups in there are having a laugh at that. >_> (Don't know what I'm talking bout' here lol)

Click to expand...

From a moral point of view i agree, i'd have no problem with marlboro,johnny walker,sensi seeds or even heckler &koch bringing money in.



The problem is however that all tobacco companies were only interested in motorsports because they were not allowed to advertise in tv for example . In my opinion the only realistic way to create a financially stable series is to admit that motorsports are niche sports and that this whole concept of corporate sponsors as a basis for financing is just wrong . i know i'm going to get flamed for this but just imagine how great motogp could be if it was comparable (machine-wise) with AMA supercross.Cheap bikes so that virtually everyone can compete and work their way up, if you're a good posterchild and earn a few million extra good for you. no need for extreme ticketprices to subsidize the important development of 19.000rpm engines and these crazy electronics which can not be implemented on road bikes anyways.it angers me to know that a good chunk of the revenue that is made on me being a fan attending rounds and all that stuff is wasted on Gps controlled ignition cutting TC when i'd rather my money went to the riders,especially the ones not making a ton of money