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Might as well call it WSB!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 14 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not until we have extracted all the oil out of the region
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we could drill through the glass
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 14 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats funny coming from a war monger like you
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I say level the whole ....... region and turn it to glass.
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Look if you can't get along and send em to their room to think about it you must take away their toys. If you can't do that then what? Do you think for a second a palestinian gives a .... about anyone else other than their own? Same with the jews. They have a sence that they are the chosen people as it says in the bible. So that is why I say ok then all you fuckers line up and here are your pistolas. Shoot til your tired. Leave us good people to our MOTO GP and the fun we all crave and could give a .... how and when you worship GOD or whomever you feel represents god. It is time to let this .... come to a head without the U.S. and RUSSIA in the mix. But that ain't gonna happen. So get prepared for the first nuclear war once Iran gets their .... together and say .... everyone. THey care the less of everone. SO I sound harsh, curve sounds harsh? I like my life and care for my children and friends. SO when I feel that these ........ are going to .... .... up the way they want to. KILL THEM ALL AND WIPE EM OUT. Oh one other thing. They teach their kids that to die they way they tell them to is the greatest thing one can do. YEAH ok that is rational thinking. If they continue on that path then there won't be any of them left to deal with anyway. SO what are you going to do teach them differently? Change their mindset? YEah OK BUDDY!!!! I wish you could but there is no way that anyone has ever proposed to do. THey threaten all of our ways of life and I don't sit for no one. THey want to die so bad well then let GOD sort em out if they don't value the life they were given. SHame cause they could use some of that money to support Kawasaki.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 14 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well to say, "cowering in hospital basements,knowing Israel wont attack there" is false. it reported on the news in the uk that they do indeed attack these places with total disregard for the innocent that are there. Its acceptable collateral damage to them if they believe an "insurgent" was/is there.

secondly, to say "Israel has shown UNBELIEVABLE restraint in this whole ordeal" is beyond bizarre bearing in mind the death ratio now stands at 1000 to 3.
so do you live in a cave or are you a victim of very suppressed news ?

No, but you must. I dont know from which school of war you graduated,but the whole idea of war is to kill as many of theirs,while losing the least of yours. Do you really think that in the time frame of this conflict,that 1000 deaths is all Israel could inflict.That could be accomplished in 5 minutes,conventionally.They are going WAY out of their way to try and pick off these cowardly .......s but in the end,hiding behind women and kids will get women and kids killed. The UN school that was destroyed that got so much ink,turns out what killed the majority in the area was a secondary explosion of weapons these .......s had hidden at the school.You need to read your history about Israel,they owned that land many times in the last 3500 years only to be conquered,time and time again.If you are referring to recent history read this and tell me what you would have done,considering what had happened 20 years earlier.





n 1967, Syria, Egypt and Jordan amassed troops along the Israeli borders and Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. Nasser demanded that the UNEF leave Sinai, threatening escalation to a full war. Egyptian radio broadcasts talked of a coming genocide.[46].

Israel responded by calling up its civilian reserves, bringing much of the Israeli economy to a halt. The Israelis set up a national unity coalition, including for the first time Menachem Begin's party, Herut in a coalition.

During a national radio broadcast, Prime-Minister Levi Eshkol stammered, causing widespread fear in Israel. To calm public concern Moshe Dayan (Chief of Staff during the Sinai war) was appointed defense minister.

Main article: Six-Day War

On the morning before Dayan was sworn in, June 5 1967, the Israeli air force launched pre-emptive attacks destroying first the Egyptian air force and then later the same day destroying the air forces of Jordan and Syria. Israel then defeated (almost successively) Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By June 11 the Arab forces were routed and all parties had accepted the cease-fire called for by UN Security Council Resolutions 235 and 236.

Israel gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the formerly Jordanian-controlled West Bank of the Jordan River, including East Jerusalem. On November 22 1967, the Security Council adopted Resolution 242, the "land for peace" formula, which called for the establishment of a just and lasting peace based on Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 in return for the end of all states of belligerency, respect for the sovereignty of all states in the area, and the right to live in peace within secure, recognized boundaries.
The Enclosure of the Cave of the Patriarchs

For the first time since the end of the British Mandate, Jews could visit the Old City of Jerusalem and pray at the Western Wall to which they had been denied access by the Jordanians (in contravention of the 1949 Armistice agreement). In Hebron, Jews gained access to the Cave of the Patriarchs (the second most holy site in Judaism) for the first time since the 14th Century (previously Jews were only allowed to pray at the entrance).[47]. A third Jewish holy site, Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem also became accessible.

After 1967 the USA began supplying Israel with aircraft. Anti-Semitic purges led to the final migration of the last Polish Jews to Israel.

In early 1969, fighting broke out between Egypt and Israel along the Suez Canal. In retaliation for repeated Egyptian shelling of Israeli positions along the Suez Canal, Israeli planes made deep strikes into Egypt in the 1969-1970 "War of Attrition". The United States helped end these hostilities in August 1970, but subsequent U.S. efforts to negotiate an interim agreement to open the Suez Canal and achieve the disengagement of forces were unsuccessful.

In as much as the 1949 Armistice lines were no longer direct borders, and Israel now had the responsibility of administration of Golan, Gaza, West Bank, and Sinai, the opportunity to unite divided Jerusalem was taken, and formal annexation completed. In the late seventies, Israel also formally annexed the Golan. Gaza and the West Bank, overwhelmingly Palestinian, remained as administrative territories, pending a final settlement. Sinai, remained in a military occupation, although its sparse population required little administration.

In late 1969, Levi Eshkol died in office, of a heart attack, and was succeeded by Golda Meir.
 
Povol and Rockgod, you are the types that would condemn the terrorist attacks in this country right? Me too. But, the real question is, would you two be able to link such events to grievances that people in far away lands have with the way the US meddles and effects their lives? Yes, even to the point of exploiting business and political underdealings and endeavors that actually cause people suffering and death. Perhaps you wouldn't know since we have been on the recieving end of western interest. But you might see the world different if your town's resources were being exploited, land taken away, and political puppets propped up that were inflicting you harm. Would you be able to understand that some of these people we label terrorist (and with good reason) cannot fight conventional? So then if your were able to make this connection (which I doubt you would) then how is what Israel doing any different? Sure, like you said, they have a grievance with the Palestinians. And sure some of those Palestinians have their own grievance and have acted like terrorists. But it sure doesn't seem like you are willing to call the routing of innocent life on the Palestinian side tantamount to state sponsored terrorism (condoned and accepted by western powers).

To say they "elected" these leaders is like saying the leaders in ...... African countries with farce elections like Kenya, Sudan, etc were also "elected". They are no more "elected" than Saddam was "elected" in Iraq before. Oh, and Povol, to say the point of war is to kill as many as the enemy as possible really leaves me speechless to respond. I suppose, had you been a German, perceiving the Jews to be your "enemy" is would have been within your reasoning to exterminate.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 14 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if my neighbor has the balls to throw rocks over the fence at me and mine...i have the right to come over and bust him in the mouth...if wife and kids get in the way...they get a good shoving also
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Curve, to go along with your analogy. Yeah, if the guy throws rocks (which are what the home made rockets are which literally bounce off the roofs of houses) can be described compared to gun ships. Then would you go to that neighbor's house with an automatic 50 caliber tommy gun spitting rounds form wall to wall? Like you said, you would punch him in the mouth while shoving his wife and kid. That does sound reasonable. What does NOT sound reasonable is if you got a rock thrown at you and your reaction then was to put up cage around the house, tell the kids and wife to flee (where to), then go in with a machine gun shooting up the place. Comprende?
 
dont know where this quote is from, possibly the new testament ?

"an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind"

seems like most of the human race need to learn this and soon.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jan 14 2009, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dont know where this quote is from, possibly the new testament ?

"an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind"

seems like most of the human race need to learn this and soon.
Very wise my friend. Its not in the Bible. The Bible says 'an eye for an eye'. But this is the problem, isn't it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very wise my friend. Its not in the Bible. The Bible says 'an eye for an eye'. But this is the problem, isn't it.
Only if both of you have just one good eye. HMMMMMMMMM
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very wise my friend. Its not in the Bible. The Bible says 'an eye for an eye'. But this is the problem, isn't it.
indeed, that is the crux of it. both sides blinded by hatred will eventually lead to a darkness that will divide the world. they really do need to get a hobby or something.

<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%<span style="font-family:Arialno offence intended, just trying to cope with the whole mess by using humour.

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol and Rockgod, you are the types that would condemn the terrorist attacks in this country right? Me too. But, the real question is, would you two be able to link such events to grievances that people in far away lands have with the way the US meddles and effects their lives? Yes, even to the point of exploiting business and political underdealings and endeavors that actually cause people suffering and death. Perhaps you wouldn't know since we have been on the recieving end of western interest. But you might see the world different if your town's resources were being exploited, land taken away, and political puppets propped up that were inflicting you harm. Would you be able to understand that some of these people we label terrorist (and with good reason) cannot fight conventional? So then if your were able to make this connection (which I doubt you would) then how is what Israel doing any different? Sure, like you said, they have a grievance with the Palestinians. And sure some of those Palestinians have their own grievance and have acted like terrorists. But it sure doesn't seem like you are willing to call the routing of innocent life on the Palestinian side tantamount to state sponsored terrorism (condoned and accepted by western powers).

To say they "elected" these leaders is like saying the leaders in ...... African countries with farce elections like Kenya, Sudan, etc were also "elected". They are no more "elected" than Saddam was "elected" in Iraq before. Oh, and Povol, to say the point of war is to kill as many as the enemy as possible really leaves me speechless to respond. I suppose, had you been a German, perceiving the Jews to be your "enemy" is would have been within your reasoning to exterminate.




Curve, to go along with your analogy. Yeah, if the guy throws rocks (which are what the home made rockets are which literally bounce off the roofs of houses) can be described compared to gun ships. Then would you go to that neighbor's house with an automatic 50 caliber tommy gun spitting rounds form wall to wall? Like you said, you would punch him in the mouth while shoving his wife and kid. That does sound reasonable. What does NOT sound reasonable is if you got a rock thrown at you and your reaction then was to put up cage around the house, tell the kids and wife to flee (where to), then go in with a machine gun shooting up the place. Comprende?

whats "Comprende"
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 14 2009, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>whats "Comprende"
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Haha, you Spanish reject. That's 'understand' in Spanish.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 14 2009, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
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just ....... with you homes
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Ya veo cabron. Puras pendejadas.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very wise my friend. Its not in the Bible. The Bible says 'an eye for an eye'. But this is the problem, isn't it.

Jumkie, you crack me up. You and everyone else who thinks they know the Bible.
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<u>Matthew 5:38</u>
“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH."

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<u>Oh yeah, here's the rest of it Matthew 5:39-42</u>
“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. “Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

That's the funny thing about the bible, you have to read the whole thing.

The "wives submit to your husbands" passage is another glorious calamity in half reading.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 14 2009, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie, you crack me up. You and everyone else who thinks they know the Bible.
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That's the funny thing about the bible, you have to read the whole thing.
Yes you moron, that was my point (which you missed by a lightyear). BigAl asked if the quote he presented was in the Bible. I'm saying no, its not. The Bible says something else. Though the meaning and point is that this type of revenge is unwise. The idea that people read .... out of context and don't learn its meaning. Its the idea that the Bible is used in many cases to trample human dignity and rights was the point I was making clown. .... like slavery, and marriage, and war, and worst of all, God told me to________(insert ...... thing here).

But either way, I'm not defending the Bible nor condoning it. There is plenty of good themes and messages in it, but there is also lots of .... that people of of power have used against the ignorant people of faith and piety to do horrible things to fellow mankind. There are plenty of good messages in the Koran for that matter. But then again, all these religious books also have lots of .... used to torture, kill, and destroy. (Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Jihad, etc.)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes you moron, that was my point (which you missed by a lightyear). The idea that people read .... out of context and don't learn its meaning. Its the idea that the Bible is used in many cases to trample human dignity and rights was the point clown. .... like slavery, and marriage, and war, and worst of all, God told me too________(insert ...... thing here).

Sorry.

I thought you were being literal. Excellent scholarly satire.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 14 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry.

I thought you were being literal. Excellent scholarly satire.
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Oh funny one. Tell me the meaning of this one:

God's order to the Israelites found in 1 Samuel 15:3

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Still feel like defending the Good Book?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 14 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol and Rockgod, you are the types that would condemn the terrorist attacks in this country right? Me too. But, the real question is, would you two be able to link such events to grievances that people in far away lands have with the way the US meddles and effects their lives? Yes, even to the point of exploiting business and political underdealings and endeavors that actually cause people suffering and death. Perhaps you wouldn't know since we have been on the recieving end of western interest. But you might see the world different if your town's resources were being exploited, land taken away, and political puppets propped up that were inflicting you harm. Would you be able to understand that some of these people we label terrorist (and with good reason) cannot fight conventional? So then if your were able to make this connection (which I doubt you would) then how is what Israel doing any different? Sure, like you said, they have a grievance with the Palestinians. And sure some of those Palestinians have their own grievance and have acted like terrorists. But it sure doesn't seem like you are willing to call the routing of innocent life on the Palestinian side tantamount to state sponsored terrorism (condoned and accepted by western powers).

To say they "elected" these leaders is like saying the leaders in ...... African countries with farce elections like Kenya, Sudan, etc were also "elected". They are no more "elected" than Saddam was "elected" in Iraq before. Oh, and Povol, to say the point of war is to kill as many as the enemy as possible really leaves me speechless to respond. I suppose, had you been a German, perceiving the Jews to be your "enemy" is would have been within your reasoning to exterminate.




Curve, to go along with your analogy. Yeah, if the guy throws rocks (which are what the home made rockets are which literally bounce off the roofs of houses) can be described compared to gun ships. Then would you go to that neighbor's house with an automatic 50 caliber tommy gun spitting rounds form wall to wall? Like you said, you would punch him in the mouth while shoving his wife and kid. That does sound reasonable. What does NOT sound reasonable is if you got a rock thrown at you and your reaction then was to put up cage around the house, tell the kids and wife to flee (where to), then go in with a machine gun shooting up the place. Comprende?
great post and you make some great points.

i say this with respect povol as ive grown to like you but i take it from that "kill as many of the enemy" statement that you yourself have never been a soldier ? maybe you have ? but when i served you were trained to do a job and be professional about it. killing as many people/enemy (isreail cant tell the differance) is not how a proffesonal soldier would act. You should not send gunships, tanks ,jet fighter's ect into a country blowing the .... out of everything because some terrorist who shot a fire cracker over there fence may still be there.
 
.... me, can't we escape from the old Middle East conflict anywhere?
Anyway, I'm currently reading "The great war for civilization - the conquest for the middle east" by Robert Fisk, a journalist who has reported on the middle east, and lived there for the past 30 years. Really thought provoking reading, but it gives a lot of perspective on the whole area and its infinite problems. You can also check read his columns at -
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/

My thoughts though - Israel has gone way over the top. Remember, no one can leave Gaza - there's no where to run - the whole area is blockaded off, and of course, Israel won't let independent journalists in.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jan 14 2009, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... me, can't we escape from the old Middle East conflict anywhere?
Anyway, I'm currently reading "The great war for civilization - the conquest for the middle east" by Robert Fisk, a journalist who has reported on the middle east, and lived there for the past 30 years. Really thought provoking reading, but it gives a lot of perspective on the whole area and its infinite problems. You can also check read his columns at -
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/

My thoughts though - Israel has gone way over the top. Remember, no one can leave Gaza - there's no where to run - the whole area is blockaded off, and of course, Israel won't let independent journalists in.
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well it is the off season and it is taking our minds off the thought of motogp being ...... for a moment . it is only the one thread and i must say i am enjoying reading the good points that are being made.
i will check that book out mate
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